Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ The passage all liberals hate!

[Justaned]

Ed, I honestly do not know, other than to say God is not a liar, and He means EVERY WORD He speaks. How God can be omniscient, yes need to go and see for Himself things...I don't know.

What I do know is I do not agree with your teaching that God is telling falsehoods to explain something. He told Abraham that he knew now what Abraham would do. He said He would go and see for Himself if the reports of Sodom and Gomorrah ' s sin was true. He has also said He is omniscient and omnipresent. Only God can know how He can know all things yet not know something. But I do know He did not lie when He said any of those statements.

Good now we both agree that God can not, will not and does not lie. However a literal reading of the this passage in Gen 18 is in direct contradiction to the fact God is omniscient and omnipresent which can't be. The only solution is saying we can't take a literal reading of the Genesis 18 passage. I think this goes with Dake's teaching of saying always take a literal meaning of the passage unless you can't because it conflicts with other passages.

3. The Bible cannot contradict itself. Its teachings in one part must agree with its teachings in another part. Therefore, any interpretation which makes the Bible inconsistent with itself must rest upon false principles.
Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 43.

[bibleman]

Ed, I honestly do not know, other than to say God is not a liar, and He means EVERY WORD He speaks. How God can be omniscient, yes need to go and see for Himself things...I don't know.

What I do know is I do not agree with your teaching that God is telling falsehoods to explain something. He told Abraham that he knew now what Abraham would do. He said He would go and see for Himself if the reports of Sodom and Gomorrah ' s sin was true. He has also said He is omniscient and omnipresent. Only God can know how He can know all things yet not know something. But I do know He did not lie when He said any of those statements.

Good now we both agree that God can not, will not and does not lie. However a literal reading of the this passage in Gen 18 is in direct contradiction to the fact God is omniscient and omnipresent which can't be. The only solution is saying we can't take a literal reading of the Genesis 18 passage. I think this goes with Dake's teaching of saying always take a literal meaning of the passage unless you can't because it conflicts with other passages.

3. The Bible cannot contradict itself. Its teachings in one part must agree with its teachings in another part. Therefore, any interpretation which makes the Bible inconsistent with itself must rest upon false principles.
Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 43.

NOW ED,...

Don't try to interpret Dake in your own understanding.

Dake believed Genesis 18 to be literal, and that God was NOT omnipresent as you understand the definition.

Notes For Verse 21 a [I will go down now, and see] This is another proof that God acquires knowledge of conditions and becomes acquainted with facts.

Notes For Verse 22 a [turned their faces from thence] This teaches that like men and angels, God is limited to one place as far as the body is concerned. The doctrine of the omnipresence of God can be proven, but not His omnibody. In His body He goes from place to place like other persons (Gen. 18:21; 11:5-9; 17:22; 18:33; 35:13; etc.). Abraham still stood before the bodily presence of God, but not before the bodily presence of the two angels who had gone to Sodom (Gen. 19:1).

Finis Jennings Dake, Dake's Annotated Reference Bible: Containing the Old and New Testaments of the Authorized or King James Version Text, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Bible Sales, Inc., 1997), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "Chapter 18".

[Justaned]

Ed, I honestly do not know, other than to say God is not a liar, and He means EVERY WORD He speaks. How God can be omniscient, yes need to go and see for Himself things...I don't know.

What I do know is I do not agree with your teaching that God is telling falsehoods to explain something. He told Abraham that he knew now what Abraham would do. He said He would go and see for Himself if the reports of Sodom and Gomorrah ' s sin was true. He has also said He is omniscient and omnipresent. Only God can know how He can know all things yet not know something. But I do know He did not lie when He said any of those statements.

Good now we both agree that God can not, will not and does not lie. However a literal reading of the this passage in Gen 18 is in direct contradiction to the fact God is omniscient and omnipresent which can't be. The only solution is saying we can't take a literal reading of the Genesis 18 passage. I think this goes with Dake's teaching of saying always take a literal meaning of the passage unless you can't because it conflicts with other passages.

3. The Bible cannot contradict itself. Its teachings in one part must agree with its teachings in another part. Therefore, any interpretation which makes the Bible inconsistent with itself must rest upon false principles.
Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 43.

NOW ED,...

Don't try to interpret Dake in your own understanding.

Dake believed Genesis 18 to be literal, and that God was NOT omnipresent as you understand the definition.

Notes For Verse 21 a [I will go down now, and see] This is another proof that God acquires knowledge of conditions and becomes acquainted with facts.

Notes For Verse 22 a [turned their faces from thence] This teaches that like men and angels, God is limited to one place as far as the body is concerned. The doctrine of the omnipresence of God can be proven, but not His omnibody. In His body He goes from place to place like other persons (Gen. 18:21; 11:5-9; 17:22; 18:33; 35:13; etc.). Abraham still stood before the bodily presence of God, but not before the bodily presence of the two angels who had gone to Sodom (Gen. 19:1).

Finis Jennings Dake, Dake's Annotated Reference Bible: Containing the Old and New Testaments of the Authorized or King James Version Text, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Bible Sales, Inc., 1997), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "Chapter 18".

so if there happened to be someone praying in Sodom at the time or in china God simply didn't hear it because he was outside the city. When does scripture tell us God went in to look around for Himself in this passage. And why did he say he was keeping from Abraham what he was going to do, if God needed to look around first? Some many questions need to be answered from you interpretation of this passage. Which does in fact bring conflict to most of the rest of the Bible. But hey who is counting. When Abraham said how about if there are fifty righteous. When did God go in and find there weren't?

[bibleman]

Ed, I honestly do not know, other than to say God is not a liar, and He means EVERY WORD He speaks. How God can be omniscient, yes need to go and see for Himself things...I don't know.

What I do know is I do not agree with your teaching that God is telling falsehoods to explain something. He told Abraham that he knew now what Abraham would do. He said He would go and see for Himself if the reports of Sodom and Gomorrah ' s sin was true. He has also said He is omniscient and omnipresent. Only God can know how He can know all things yet not know something. But I do know He did not lie when He said any of those statements.

Good now we both agree that God can not, will not and does not lie. However a literal reading of the this passage in Gen 18 is in direct contradiction to the fact God is omniscient and omnipresent which can't be. The only solution is saying we can't take a literal reading of the Genesis 18 passage. I think this goes with Dake's teaching of saying always take a literal meaning of the passage unless you can't because it conflicts with other passages.

3. The Bible cannot contradict itself. Its teachings in one part must agree with its teachings in another part. Therefore, any interpretation which makes the Bible inconsistent with itself must rest upon false principles.
Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 43.

NOW ED,...

Don't try to interpret Dake in your own understanding.

Dake believed Genesis 18 to be literal, and that God was NOT omnipresent as you understand the definition.

Notes For Verse 21 a [I will go down now, and see] This is another proof that God acquires knowledge of conditions and becomes acquainted with facts.

Notes For Verse 22 a [turned their faces from thence] This teaches that like men and angels, God is limited to one place as far as the body is concerned. The doctrine of the omnipresence of God can be proven, but not His omnibody. In His body He goes from place to place like other persons (Gen. 18:21; 11:5-9; 17:22; 18:33; 35:13; etc.). Abraham still stood before the bodily presence of God, but not before the bodily presence of the two angels who had gone to Sodom (Gen. 19:1).

Finis Jennings Dake, Dake's Annotated Reference Bible: Containing the Old and New Testaments of the Authorized or King James Version Text, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Bible Sales, Inc., 1997), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "Chapter 18".

so if there happened to be someone praying in Sodom at the time or in china God simply didn't hear it because he was outside the city. When does scripture tell us God went in to look around for Himself in this passage. And why did he say he was keeping from Abraham what he was going to do, if God needed to look around first? Some many questions need to be answered from you interpretation of this passage. Which does in fact bring conflict to most of the rest of the Bible. But hey who is counting. When Abraham said how about if there are fifty righteous. When did God go in and find there weren't?

Ed my friend,

Your argument is with God and HIS Word NOT me...

Genesis 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

It is plainly stated that God would know one way or the other when he would go down and see...

You have a choice - You can either believe God's Word or doubt it.

As for me I believe God did what HE said he was going to do.

You however doubt God's integrity - that is dangerous ground.

[Justaned]

Ed, I honestly do not know, other than to say God is not a liar, and He means EVERY WORD He speaks. How God can be omniscient, yes need to go and see for Himself things...I don't know.

What I do know is I do not agree with your teaching that God is telling falsehoods to explain something. He told Abraham that he knew now what Abraham would do. He said He would go and see for Himself if the reports of Sodom and Gomorrah ' s sin was true. He has also said He is omniscient and omnipresent. Only God can know how He can know all things yet not know something. But I do know He did not lie when He said any of those statements.

Good now we both agree that God can not, will not and does not lie. However a literal reading of the this passage in Gen 18 is in direct contradiction to the fact God is omniscient and omnipresent which can't be. The only solution is saying we can't take a literal reading of the Genesis 18 passage. I think this goes with Dake's teaching of saying always take a literal meaning of the passage unless you can't because it conflicts with other passages.

3. The Bible cannot contradict itself. Its teachings in one part must agree with its teachings in another part. Therefore, any interpretation which makes the Bible inconsistent with itself must rest upon false principles.
Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 43.

NOW ED,...

Don't try to interpret Dake in your own understanding.

Dake believed Genesis 18 to be literal, and that God was NOT omnipresent as you understand the definition.

Notes For Verse 21 a [I will go down now, and see] This is another proof that God acquires knowledge of conditions and becomes acquainted with facts.

Notes For Verse 22 a [turned their faces from thence] This teaches that like men and angels, God is limited to one place as far as the body is concerned. The doctrine of the omnipresence of God can be proven, but not His omnibody. In His body He goes from place to place like other persons (Gen. 18:21; 11:5-9; 17:22; 18:33; 35:13; etc.). Abraham still stood before the bodily presence of God, but not before the bodily presence of the two angels who had gone to Sodom (Gen. 19:1).

Finis Jennings Dake, Dake's Annotated Reference Bible: Containing the Old and New Testaments of the Authorized or King James Version Text, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Bible Sales, Inc., 1997), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "Chapter 18".

If God isn't omnipresent and omniscient and if it is as Dake says it is in Psalm 139 how does God hear every prayer of man, know every man's heart, and know the words before each man speaks them? There is over 7 Billion people alive on earth at this moment. That means there is a potential of 7 billion words being spoken at any one moment how could God possibly know what each person was saying He would have less than 7 billionth of a second and it takes longer than they for man to form the word. So there is something wrong with Dake's explanation of this.

[Justaned]

Ed, I honestly do not know, other than to say God is not a liar, and He means EVERY WORD He speaks. How God can be omniscient, yes need to go and see for Himself things...I don't know.

What I do know is I do not agree with your teaching that God is telling falsehoods to explain something. He told Abraham that he knew now what Abraham would do. He said He would go and see for Himself if the reports of Sodom and Gomorrah ' s sin was true. He has also said He is omniscient and omnipresent. Only God can know how He can know all things yet not know something. But I do know He did not lie when He said any of those statements.

Good now we both agree that God can not, will not and does not lie. However a literal reading of the this passage in Gen 18 is in direct contradiction to the fact God is omniscient and omnipresent which can't be. The only solution is saying we can't take a literal reading of the Genesis 18 passage. I think this goes with Dake's teaching of saying always take a literal meaning of the passage unless you can't because it conflicts with other passages.

3. The Bible cannot contradict itself. Its teachings in one part must agree with its teachings in another part. Therefore, any interpretation which makes the Bible inconsistent with itself must rest upon false principles.
Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 43.

NOW ED,...

Don't try to interpret Dake in your own understanding.

Dake believed Genesis 18 to be literal, and that God was NOT omnipresent as you understand the definition.

Notes For Verse 21 a [I will go down now, and see] This is another proof that God acquires knowledge of conditions and becomes acquainted with facts.

Notes For Verse 22 a [turned their faces from thence] This teaches that like men and angels, God is limited to one place as far as the body is concerned. The doctrine of the omnipresence of God can be proven, but not His omnibody. In His body He goes from place to place like other persons (Gen. 18:21; 11:5-9; 17:22; 18:33; 35:13; etc.). Abraham still stood before the bodily presence of God, but not before the bodily presence of the two angels who had gone to Sodom (Gen. 19:1).

Finis Jennings Dake, Dake's Annotated Reference Bible: Containing the Old and New Testaments of the Authorized or King James Version Text, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Bible Sales, Inc., 1997), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "Chapter 18".

so if there happened to be someone praying in Sodom at the time or in china God simply didn't hear it because he was outside the city. When does scripture tell us God went in to look around for Himself in this passage. And why did he say he was keeping from Abraham what he was going to do, if God needed to look around first? Some many questions need to be answered from you interpretation of this passage. Which does in fact bring conflict to most of the rest of the Bible. But hey who is counting. When Abraham said how about if there are fifty righteous. When did God go in and find there weren't?

Ed my friend,

Your argument is with God and HIS Word NOT me...

Genesis 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

It is plainly stated that God would know one way or the other when he would go down and see...

You have a choice - You can either believe God's Word or doubt it.

As for me I believe God did what HE said he was going to do.

You however doubt God's integrity - that is dangerous ground.

I have no argument with God. It is you and your interpretation that limits God. My interpretation goes hand in hand with the nature of God and the rest of scripture by placing no limitation on God.
I believe every word God spoke. I'm not challenging God or his spoken word. I'm challenging your interpretation and the understanding that God is limited.

[bibleman]

Ed, I honestly do not know, other than to say God is not a liar, and He means EVERY WORD He speaks. How God can be omniscient, yes need to go and see for Himself things...I don't know.

What I do know is I do not agree with your teaching that God is telling falsehoods to explain something. He told Abraham that he knew now what Abraham would do. He said He would go and see for Himself if the reports of Sodom and Gomorrah ' s sin was true. He has also said He is omniscient and omnipresent. Only God can know how He can know all things yet not know something. But I do know He did not lie when He said any of those statements.

Good now we both agree that God can not, will not and does not lie. However a literal reading of the this passage in Gen 18 is in direct contradiction to the fact God is omniscient and omnipresent which can't be. The only solution is saying we can't take a literal reading of the Genesis 18 passage. I think this goes with Dake's teaching of saying always take a literal meaning of the passage unless you can't because it conflicts with other passages.

3. The Bible cannot contradict itself. Its teachings in one part must agree with its teachings in another part. Therefore, any interpretation which makes the Bible inconsistent with itself must rest upon false principles.
Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 43.

NOW ED,...

Don't try to interpret Dake in your own understanding.

Dake believed Genesis 18 to be literal, and that God was NOT omnipresent as you understand the definition.

Notes For Verse 21 a [I will go down now, and see] This is another proof that God acquires knowledge of conditions and becomes acquainted with facts.

Notes For Verse 22 a [turned their faces from thence] This teaches that like men and angels, God is limited to one place as far as the body is concerned. The doctrine of the omnipresence of God can be proven, but not His omnibody. In His body He goes from place to place like other persons (Gen. 18:21; 11:5-9; 17:22; 18:33; 35:13; etc.). Abraham still stood before the bodily presence of God, but not before the bodily presence of the two angels who had gone to Sodom (Gen. 19:1).

Finis Jennings Dake, Dake's Annotated Reference Bible: Containing the Old and New Testaments of the Authorized or King James Version Text, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Bible Sales, Inc., 1997), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "Chapter 18".

so if there happened to be someone praying in Sodom at the time or in china God simply didn't hear it because he was outside the city. When does scripture tell us God went in to look around for Himself in this passage. And why did he say he was keeping from Abraham what he was going to do, if God needed to look around first? Some many questions need to be answered from you interpretation of this passage. Which does in fact bring conflict to most of the rest of the Bible. But hey who is counting. When Abraham said how about if there are fifty righteous. When did God go in and find there weren't?

Ed my friend,

Your argument is with God and HIS Word NOT me...

Genesis 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

It is plainly stated that God would know one way or the other when he would go down and see...

You have a choice - You can either believe God's Word or doubt it.

As for me I believe God did what HE said he was going to do.

You however doubt God's integrity - that is dangerous ground.

I have no argument with God. It is you and your interpretation that limits God. My interpretation goes hand in hand with the nature of God and the rest of scripture by placing no limitation on God.
I believe every word God spoke. I'm not challenging God or his spoken word. I'm challenging your interpretation and the understanding that God is limited.

Well Ed...

As you know I do not have an interpretation of God's Word. It just says what it says.

Genesis 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

The question is very simple. God said he would go down and see.

I believe that.

You do not.

Sad indeed.

[Justaned]

Ed, I honestly do not know, other than to say God is not a liar, and He means EVERY WORD He speaks. How God can be omniscient, yes need to go and see for Himself things...I don't know.

What I do know is I do not agree with your teaching that God is telling falsehoods to explain something. He told Abraham that he knew now what Abraham would do. He said He would go and see for Himself if the reports of Sodom and Gomorrah ' s sin was true. He has also said He is omniscient and omnipresent. Only God can know how He can know all things yet not know something. But I do know He did not lie when He said any of those statements.

Good now we both agree that God can not, will not and does not lie. However a literal reading of the this passage in Gen 18 is in direct contradiction to the fact God is omniscient and omnipresent which can't be. The only solution is saying we can't take a literal reading of the Genesis 18 passage. I think this goes with Dake's teaching of saying always take a literal meaning of the passage unless you can't because it conflicts with other passages.

3. The Bible cannot contradict itself. Its teachings in one part must agree with its teachings in another part. Therefore, any interpretation which makes the Bible inconsistent with itself must rest upon false principles.
Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 43.

NOW ED,...

Don't try to interpret Dake in your own understanding.

Dake believed Genesis 18 to be literal, and that God was NOT omnipresent as you understand the definition.

Notes For Verse 21 a [I will go down now, and see] This is another proof that God acquires knowledge of conditions and becomes acquainted with facts.

Notes For Verse 22 a [turned their faces from thence] This teaches that like men and angels, God is limited to one place as far as the body is concerned. The doctrine of the omnipresence of God can be proven, but not His omnibody. In His body He goes from place to place like other persons (Gen. 18:21; 11:5-9; 17:22; 18:33; 35:13; etc.). Abraham still stood before the bodily presence of God, but not before the bodily presence of the two angels who had gone to Sodom (Gen. 19:1).

Finis Jennings Dake, Dake's Annotated Reference Bible: Containing the Old and New Testaments of the Authorized or King James Version Text, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Bible Sales, Inc., 1997), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "Chapter 18".

so if there happened to be someone praying in Sodom at the time or in china God simply didn't hear it because he was outside the city. When does scripture tell us God went in to look around for Himself in this passage. And why did he say he was keeping from Abraham what he was going to do, if God needed to look around first? Some many questions need to be answered from you interpretation of this passage. Which does in fact bring conflict to most of the rest of the Bible. But hey who is counting. When Abraham said how about if there are fifty righteous. When did God go in and find there weren't?

Ed my friend,

Your argument is with God and HIS Word NOT me...

Genesis 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

It is plainly stated that God would know one way or the other when he would go down and see...

You have a choice - You can either believe God's Word or doubt it.

As for me I believe God did what HE said he was going to do.

You however doubt God's integrity - that is dangerous ground.

I have no argument with God. It is you and your interpretation that limits God. My interpretation goes hand in hand with the nature of God and the rest of scripture by placing no limitation on God.
I believe every word God spoke. I'm not challenging God or his spoken word. I'm challenging your interpretation and the understanding that God is limited.

Well Ed...

As you know I do not have an interpretation of God's Word. It just says what it says.

Genesis 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

The question is very simple. God said he would go down and see.

I believe that.

You do not.

Sad indeed.

I believe that is how God explained it to Abraham so that Abraham would understand and not be sidetracked with asking God how do you do that. I also believe God had to do it this way to show the world the perversion of Sodom so they could not come back and say how do we know what you are saying about Sodom is true. God left the people perversion of Sodom indict itself. And recorded it in scripture for eternity to understand God is holy and can not tolerate sin.

[bibleman]

I believe that is how God explained it to Abraham so that Abraham would understand and not be sidetracked with asking God how do you do that. I also believe God had to do it this way to show the world the perversion of Sodom so they could not come back and say how do we know what you are saying about Sodom is true. God left the people perversion of Sodom indict itself. And recorded it in scripture for eternity to understand God is holy and can not tolerate sin.

So you believe all that you said but what you DO NOT believe is:

Genesis 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

Sad indeed!

[Ironman]

I believe that is how God explained it to Abraham so that Abraham would understand and not be sidetracked with asking God how do you do that. I also believe God had to do it this way to show the world the perversion of Sodom so they could not come back and say how do we know what you are saying about Sodom is true. God left the people perversion of Sodom indict itself. And recorded it in scripture for eternity to understand God is holy and can not tolerate sin.

So you believe all that you said but what you DO NOT believe is:

Genesis 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

Sad indeed!

AND, how many times did Abraham say, "PREADVENTURE IF, and God replied; "IF I FIND" so God did not even know how many, until He went and had a look for Himself?

Gen 18:28, Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.
Gen 18:31, And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake.
Gen 18:32, And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.

Justaned, mate, If God knew none were good in Sodom, then God was lying to Abraham when He answered several time IF there are, I will not destroy If God, knowing all things as you believe, knew there were none good in Sodom why did God not say to Abraham, Don't keep asking me this, I know all things, there are none good there and I will destroy it.

I went to the trouble to type this out from GPFM and its worth reading, for knowledge and correction, . . . . mates!

"The Bible gives us many simple statements that limit God's knowledge. There would be no sense in them if we do not believe them literally.

God gets to know things concerning the free moral actions of men as others do (Gen. 6:5-7; 11:5-7; 18:21; 22:12; 2 Chron. 16:9; Zech. 4:10; Job 12:22; 24:23; Ps. 7:9; 44:21; Ps. 139:1-6; Prov. 24:12; Jer. 17:10; Ezek. 11:5; Rom. 8:27; 1 Thess. 2:4).

God sends messengers throughout the Earth who report to Him of all they find on Earth that goes on (Dan. 10:13-21; 11:1; 12:1; Zech. 1:7-11; 6:1-8; Matt. 18:10-11; Heb. 2:4). God does not take care personally or every detail of His vast business in all the kingdoms in the entire universe. God agents help God and they are found in every part of the universe on missions for God. Certain angels are responsible to God for carrying out His will in infinite detail concerning the billions of suns, moons, planets and all free moral agents on them.

God Himself said of certain events that they did not even come into His mind (Jer. 19:5; 32:35; 44:21).

As mentioned earlier, God did not know beforehand that men would become so wicked (Gen 6:5-7); that they would plan Babel (Gen.11:5-7); that Sodom would be so wicked (Gen. 18:21, 26, 28-32); That Abraham would actually proceed to offer his son Isaac (Gen. 22:12).

God did not know whether it would take one two or three signs to make Israel believe in Him (Ex. 4;1-12); or whether testing Israel would cause them to obey Him, or not (Deut. 8:2, 16).

God did not know that Israel would backslide as far as she did (Deut. 32:19-29; Isa. 59:15-19)

God searches to find men whom He can bless (2 Chr.16:9). God discovers deep things (Job 12:22); tries the hearts and reins of men so that He may know them (Ps. 7:9; 44:21; 139:1-6, 23-24; Jer. 17:10; 1 Chron.28:9; Rom. 8:27; 1 Cor. 2:10; Rev. 2:23, proving all men for the same reason (Ps. 17:3; 66:10; 81:7).

God eternal plan is known by Him from beginning to end and what He plans to bring to pass on Earth he has the power to do, but concerning the free actions of free moral agents He does not know from all eternity that they will do before they are in existence and are here to have a part in His plan. God does not know who will be saved or who will be lost. God has made His plan for all to be saved alike and all who conform to His plan will be blessed with the predestined blessings. Those who freely choose to wilfully rebel will be curded with the predestined punishments according to His plan. It is the PLAN that is known from beginning to end, not free moral agents individual conformity to Gods PLAN.

It is left up to each individual free moral agent to choose his own destiny. God wills all men to be saved but if men do not choose to be saved that is their destiny and responsibility (1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Peter 3:9; John 3:16; Rev. 22:17).

IF GOD KNEW BEFORE HAND WHO WOULD BE SAVED AND WHO WOULD NOT BE SAVED, THEN WHY WOULD GOD CREATE SINNERS? . . . TO BE PUNISHED ETERNALLY IN HELLFIRE? WHY NOT JUST CREATE THOSE WHO WOULDBE SAVED?

BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE ROBOTS, MUTONS AND NOT FREE MORAL AGENTS WHO LOVED GOD AND FREELY CHOSE TO BE SAVED! How easy was that? Even my grandchildren know this. Do as Dad and Grand-dad says and be rewarded, do the opposite and expect to be punished."

Cheers.