Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ WHAT IS LORDSHIP SALVATION????

[macca]

Rocky old mate! remember what i told you?

[Rocky]

Rocky what are you talking about?
Lordship as taught by everyone I'm aware of considers it a walk of sanctification. Each step from the first until death brings the believers life into more submission to the Lord Jesus Christ. No one that I'm aware of suggests that this magically occurs in a new believers life upon salvation but is a process that should take place as the believer matures in the Lord. But that it must occur!

This is why I said there needed to be a definition of terms so everyone would be on the same page.

Ok, But what do you mean what am I Talking about? what part did you not understand? I am talking about the theology of Lordship salvation. No one on this board as far as I know, accept for you is an adherent to this theology. But every time I bring its beliefs out In the open you seem to keep saying we need a definition. What in the world do you think I have been doing lol. You seem to want to censor or stifle or discredit anything I say on this for some reason or any things else I say,. You did this in our big Catholic discussion.

[Justaned]

Rocky what are you talking about?
Lordship as taught by everyone I'm aware of considers it a walk of sanctification. Each step from the first until death brings the believers life into more submission to the Lord Jesus Christ. No one that I'm aware of suggests that this magically occurs in a new believers life upon salvation but is a process that should take place as the believer matures in the Lord. But that it must occur!

This is why I said there needed to be a definition of terms so everyone would be on the same page.

Ok, But what do you mean what am I Talking about? what part did you not understand? I am talking about the theology of Lordship salvation. No one on this board as far as I know, accept for you is an adherent to this theology. But every time I bring its beliefs out In the open you seem to keep saying we need a definition. What in the world do you think I have been doing lol. You seem to want to censor or stifle or discredit anything I say on this for some reason or any things else I say,. You did this in our big Catholic discussion.

Rocky
I asked for a definition so we all would know what you are talking about. You gave a biased railing against something you don't agree with and but never a true definition.

I never use the word Lordship salvation so I have no idea what it is to you or anyone else on the this forum. Yet you tell me I'm an adherent and I have no idea of what it is that you are talking about.

I believe a Christian must make Jesus Lord of their life both in word and actions. It is a building process often called the Christian walk or known by some as the process of sanctification. I further believe that as a believe continues in the process the harder it becomes for them to willfully sin to the point that I believe a mature Christian does not willfully sin. They still sin but it is slip ups rather than willfully sinning.

Now it that makes me a bad person in you eyes, I am glad I'm me and not you, because...

[Justaned]

Rocky old mate! remember what i told you?

Macca
Thanks for the cheap shot, you always can be counted on to help out. So I suppose you know what Rocky is talking about when he talks about Lordship Salvation? How about telling the rest of us so we know.

[Rocky]

Rocky what are you talking about?
Lordship as taught by everyone I'm aware of considers it a walk of sanctification. Each step from the first until death brings the believers life into more submission to the Lord Jesus Christ. No one that I'm aware of suggests that this magically occurs in a new believers life upon salvation but is a process that should take place as the believer matures in the Lord. But that it must occur!

This is why I said there needed to be a definition of terms so everyone would be on the same page.

Ok, But what do you mean what am I Talking about? what part did you not understand? I am talking about the theology of Lordship salvation. No one on this board as far as I know, accept for you is an adherent to this theology. But every time I bring its beliefs out In the open you seem to keep saying we need a definition. What in the world do you think I have been doing lol. You seem to want to censor or stifle or discredit anything I say on this for some reason or any things else I say,. You did this in our big Catholic discussion.

Rocky
I asked for a definition so we all would know what you are talking about. You gave a biased railing against something you don't agree with and but never a true definition.

I never use the word Lordship salvation so I have no idea what it is to you or anyone else on the this forum. Yet you tell me I'm an adherent and I have no idea of what it is that you are talking about.

I believe a Christian must make Jesus Lord of their life both in word and actions. It is a building process often called the Christian walk or known by some as the process of sanctification. I further believe that as a believe continues in the process the harder it becomes for them to willfully sin to the point that I believe a mature Christian does not willfully sin. They still sin but it is slip ups rather than willfully sinning.

Now it that makes me a bad person in you eyes, I am glad I'm me and not you, because...

I never use the word Lordship salvation so I have no idea what it is to you or anyone else on the this forum. Yet you tell me I'm an adherent and I have no idea of what it is that you are talking about.

If you do not know abut Lordship salvation then why are you trying to defend and discuss it? Ed sorry for railing that is really not my intention if I came across that way I apologize. I am also sorry for hitting on some of your sensibilities concerning this theology that you say you no nothing about. Maybe you could study Lordship salvation as a theology, then you may get what I am referring to or you can give us a definition as you understand it. But remember this is about a theology not just term. Apparently anything I say is not good enough for you, Its obvious that I have offended you, and Its is almost impossible to give a definition without laying it out. But in my opinion it is unbiblical and false for the reasons I laid out regardless, of you trying to censor or discredit my opinion that is the way I see it. Since according to Ed we should not have opinions maybe someone else could explain this in a way that does not offend Ed.

[victoryword]

Great points brother. Isn't it weird that all false theology has a nugget of truth in it? Its like it has just enough to attract people to it, Satan is very clever in that. And yeah it does have hint of Calvinism, But some how self professing Armenians believe in this theology as well. And I may be wrong, but the confession aspect of confessing that Jesus is Lord is confessing the fact that he is the messiah, his deityship, and every biblical aspect about who Jesus is? Remember in acts 8:34-38 the Ethiopian?, When he asks Philip what is preventing me from being baptized Philip Said "you must believe" then the Ethiopian said I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, then Philip Baptized him? The Ethiopian did not say "Jesus is lord" he confessed who he is, he confessed the Lord Jesus. Also in 1 john 4:15 and even 2 John 1:7 we see this as well. So to confess the lord Jesus, could it not mean confessing and believing who he is an all that entails not just saying he is lord? But anyway, I believe in being obedient as far as the Christian is concerned and remaining in the faith. But notice how Lordship salvation demands even the sinner to do something past what the bible requires, "make him lord" .The bible does not say this for initial salvation, it says to simply believe and have faith, the sinner cant do anything to obtain salvation accept believe. Its Saved by grace through faith not saved by making Jesus lord, because the sinner cant make Jesus lord.

Hi Rocky

I don't believe that one has to go through a standard formula in order to be saved in which if they leave the word "Lord" out of the reception of Jesus then they become disqualified. However, I have to disagree with you on the idea that the Bible teachjes the sinner to simply believe and have faith. It also teaches the sinner to REPENT. If one repents of their sins and receives Jesus then He promises to save them. Therefore, it should be automatic that Jesus becomes Lord even if a person may not know all of the Bible or Christian lingo. The fact that you repent (have a change of heart and turn away from) of sin means that you no longer desire to live your life on your own anymore. By receiving Jesus you have asked Him to tell you how you must live your life.

The problem with people who believe that you say a sinner's prayer and that seals if for the rest of eternity is that they are making "converts" but not DISCIPLES. Jesus wants the latter. Besides the fact that a "convert" is still in eternal danger, they usually have no positive impact on the furthering of the gospel.

[victoryword]

Everything in reference to salvation today is the initial step get you saved then get you conditioned to being in church and paying your tithe. If you are in a Pentecostal environment you are taught to speak in tongues and if WOF taught to trust in your faith. And of course all teach on the "rules"

Ed, I would ask you to give me a quote by one faith teacher who has actually taught a person to "trust in their faith" but I doubt if you can produce one.

Now, of course Hagin and Kenyon have made statements like "Have faith in your faith" but every person who is NOT a heresy hunter and who actually reads the books or listens to the teaching knows that neither were deifying faith. In context, people were always relying on these men to get answers to prayer for them and they often begrudged the fact that their faith in God was insufficient for receiving answers from Him. Therefore they taught people to be confident in their own ability to trust God and not rely on another person's faith in God to get them throuigh trials.

But since you know nothing about what faith teachers really teach you will continue to misrepresent them, won't you? Be honest.

[Justaned]

Rocky what are you talking about?
Lordship as taught by everyone I'm aware of considers it a walk of sanctification. Each step from the first until death brings the believers life into more submission to the Lord Jesus Christ. No one that I'm aware of suggests that this magically occurs in a new believers life upon salvation but is a process that should take place as the believer matures in the Lord. But that it must occur!

This is why I said there needed to be a definition of terms so everyone would be on the same page.

Ok, But what do you mean what am I Talking about? what part did you not understand? I am talking about the theology of Lordship salvation. No one on this board as far as I know, accept for you is an adherent to this theology. But every time I bring its beliefs out In the open you seem to keep saying we need a definition. What in the world do you think I have been doing lol. You seem to want to censor or stifle or discredit anything I say on this for some reason or any things else I say,. You did this in our big Catholic discussion.

Rocky
I asked for a definition so we all would know what you are talking about. You gave a biased railing against something you don't agree with and but never a true definition.

I never use the word Lordship salvation so I have no idea what it is to you or anyone else on the this forum. Yet you tell me I'm an adherent and I have no idea of what it is that you are talking about.

I believe a Christian must make Jesus Lord of their life both in word and actions. It is a building process often called the Christian walk or known by some as the process of sanctification. I further believe that as a believe continues in the process the harder it becomes for them to willfully sin to the point that I believe a mature Christian does not willfully sin. They still sin but it is slip ups rather than willfully sinning.

Now it that makes me a bad person in you eyes, I am glad I'm me and not you, because...

I never use the word Lordship salvation so I have no idea what it is to you or anyone else on the this forum. Yet you tell me I'm an adherent and I have no idea of what it is that you are talking about.

If you do not know abut Lordship salvation then why are you trying to defend and discuss it? Ed sorry for railing that is really not my intention if I came across that way I apologize. I am also sorry for hitting on some of your sensibilities concerning this theology that you say you no nothing about. Maybe you could study Lordship salvation as a theology, then you may get what I am referring to or you can give us a definition as you understand it. But remember this is about a theology not just term. Apparently anything I say is not good enough for you, Its obvious that I have offended you, and Its is almost impossible to give a definition without laying it out. But in my opinion it is unbiblical and false for the reasons I laid out regardless, of you trying to censor or discredit my opinion that is the way I see it. Since according to Ed we should not have opinions maybe someone else could explain this in a way that does not offend Ed.

I wasn't defending "Lordship Theology" I was defending what I see as making Jesus Lord of our lives. Remember I asked for a definition of what everyone was calling Lordship salvation.

Rocky you say stuff that everyone knows is steeped in bias. You have have opinions and rather than present a balanced picture of something you always go to your dogmas. I have been trying to show you that.

I believe in every discussion there should be a balanced presentation of what is being discussed. Then people can offer their opinions. But to give biased definitions that then forge ahead as if the biased opinions are fact is nonsense.
I still don't know what you see as unbiblical in Lordship Salvation? In fact I know what you think Lordship salvation is except MacArthur teaches it and you hate MacArthur.

I have don't think I have ever understood your reasons for anything on this subject. It seems all you want to do is tell me I'm wrong or picking on you. I don't want to censor your opinion I want to censor the idea that your opinion is based on true definition of the matter.

Now why do you say I believe none of us should have opinions? Why make that statement?
We all have opinions. What we have to learn is there is opinion and there is fact. Our opinion does not change fact nor does opinion become fact because we argue it until everyone gives up.

[Rocky]

Great points brother. Isn't it weird that all false theology has a nugget of truth in it? Its like it has just enough to attract people to it, Satan is very clever in that. And yeah it does have hint of Calvinism, But some how self professing Armenians believe in this theology as well. And I may be wrong, but the confession aspect of confessing that Jesus is Lord is confessing the fact that he is the messiah, his deityship, and every biblical aspect about who Jesus is? Remember in acts 8:34-38 the Ethiopian?, When he asks Philip what is preventing me from being baptized Philip Said "you must believe" then the Ethiopian said I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, then Philip Baptized him? The Ethiopian did not say "Jesus is lord" he confessed who he is, he confessed the Lord Jesus. Also in 1 john 4:15 and even 2 John 1:7 we see this as well. So to confess the lord Jesus, could it not mean confessing and believing who he is an all that entails not just saying he is lord? But anyway, I believe in being obedient as far as the Christian is concerned and remaining in the faith. But notice how Lordship salvation demands even the sinner to do something past what the bible requires, "make him lord" .The bible does not say this for initial salvation, it says to simply believe and have faith, the sinner cant do anything to obtain salvation accept believe. Its Saved by grace through faith not saved by making Jesus lord, because the sinner cant make Jesus lord.

Hi Rocky

I don't believe that one has to go through a standard formula in order to be saved in which if they leave the word "Lord" out of the reception of Jesus then they become disqualified. However, I have to disagree with you on the idea that the Bible teachjes the sinner to simply believe and have faith. It also teaches the sinner to REPENT. If one repents of their sins and receives Jesus then He promises to save them. Therefore, it should be automatic that Jesus becomes Lord even if a person may not know all of the Bible or Christian lingo. The fact that you repent (have a change of heart and turn away from) of sin means that you no longer desire to live your life on your own anymore. By receiving Jesus you have asked Him to tell you how you must live your life.

The problem with people who believe that you say a sinner's prayer and that seals if for the rest of eternity is that they are making "converts" but not DISCIPLES. Jesus wants the latter. Besides the fact that a "convert" is still in eternal danger, they usually have no positive impact on the furthering of the gospel.

I am not against repentance for it is biblical to do so, but one still cant deny the simplicity of a lot of scriptures in the bible concerning salvation. Remember there are scriptures that say only believe and have faith. but in saying that I am not denying repentance. But one cannot deny these scriptures. Here is some not all because the reply would be way to long. And these are ones with just Believe:
The Gospel of John
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the
name of the only begotten Son of God

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth
on him.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Acts
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Romans
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness

1 Peter
Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

1 John
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Just a few lol

[Justaned]

Everything in reference to salvation today is the initial step get you saved then get you conditioned to being in church and paying your tithe. If you are in a Pentecostal environment you are taught to speak in tongues and if WOF taught to trust in your faith. And of course all teach on the "rules"

Ed, I would ask you to give me a quote by one faith teacher who has actually taught a person to "trust in their faith" but I doubt if you can produce one.

Now, of course Hagin and Kenyon have made statements like "Have faith in your faith" but every person who is NOT a heresy hunter and who actually reads the books or listens to the teaching knows that neither were deifying faith. In context, people were always relying on these men to get answers to prayer for them and they often begrudged the fact that their faith in God was insufficient for receiving answers from Him. Therefore they taught people to be confident in their own ability to trust God and not rely on another person's faith in God to get them throuigh trials.

But since you know nothing about what faith teachers really teach you will continue to misrepresent them, won't you? Be honest.

Victorydub
What would be the point of a quote. The minute I posted one you would claim it is out of context.
Beside I doubt if anyone would say trust in your faith. However what they do say is exactly that. Now you can claim that is not true but there is a reason the rest of Christianity views WOF as false teaching and it isn't because they have faith.

True Pentecostalism is considered valid and faith is the basis of our belief.

The Assemblies of God have written white papers on the falsehood of WOF teachings. They exist online and can be read by anyone interested in reading them. http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/Position_Papers/index.cfm
They are both in English and Spanish.
There are a number that detail out the problems with these false teachings.