Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Finis Dake on Interpreting the Bible

[Justaned]

Thankfully much of the controversy you mentioned (trinity, deity of Christ etc) was settled by the church and all other positions declared heretical. Unfortunately things like Calvinism was birthed in the Reformation when man threw off all restraint except those they chose to accept.

Forgive me for being brutally honest hear but I hear you on Calvinism debate but unless you have more than you have exhibited here they would have you for lunch.
I know I debated Calvinist for years. And no I will not defend Calvinism to prove how wrong you are.

As far as me not proving something to you, I felt no compulsion or need. What I try to do it to get people to think and let them prove or disproved what they believe to themselves. I believe it has been proved time and time again that if a person is proven to be wrong in a debate they still will not change their position. But if they have any real interest in the truth they will re-explore their beliefs to see if they are valid or not.

I know when I believed as you do, no one on this earth could have convinced me it was wrong. It wasn't until I decided to prove to myself for once and all how wrong everyone else was that I learned how wrong I have been.

Ed, I almost took this post serious for about five seconds. Perhaps even THAT was too long

Calvinism, a false system of theology with no real Biblical backing having me for lunch? With all of our arguments on this forum where you very seldom allow me the last word you claim to feel no compulsion to prove anything to me? THat's why I love you Ed. Who else could keep me scratching my head wondering?

Laugh all you want the truth is the truth.

[Fit4theKingdom]

I agree.... but can you give scripture that says angels had sex with human women to produce giants? I know scriptures says "sons of God" and "daughters of men" but those phrases are used as various times and places to represent human beings as well as spiritual beings. Therefore, since you said "let the Bible speak for itself" please show us where the Bible says "angels with humans" --- Remember - let the Bible speak for itself.

[branham1965]

WHY ARE YOU RELEGATING ONENESS PENTECOSTALS WITH THESE OTHER GROUPS????? I WAS SUPERNATURALLY DELIVERED FROM EVIL FORCES IN A ONENESS CHURCH.BISHOP EDGAR POSEYS CHURCH.ITS THE SAME PENTECOSTAL POWER I FELT IN MY HOME CHURCH!!!!!

In your opinion. It is their opinion of those that hold to the teaching that the proof texts they provide supports their position when viewed in context.

As I have said, the Calvinist position is easily disproven by the context. However, many will often remain in deception since they could never give up their precious doctrine of a deity who damns people to hell for no other reason then that it glorifies him.

First let me say I'm not saying I support any of the positions you mentioned above. So don't accuse me of any.

I do know that in the opinion of those that hold those positions they feel their position is fully supported by scripture. If they didn't they would less than honesty with themselves.

So in effect what you say about them and their position the say and believe the same about your position.

That is the crux of the problem.

All of these topics have been discussed, debated, argued, hashed and rehashed millions of times over the last millennium or two. Both sides are equally knowledgeable, equally sincere, equally faithful, equally spiritual, equally knowledgeable, equal spiritually lead. Yet the difference remains.

I used to hold to a few "prooftexted" doctrines myself until I examined some of them in the light of the context. I decided that the context went against what I held to so I disgarded the doctrine. I have no sympathy for anyone who hold a doctrinal position that is contradicted by the fuller revelation of Scripture and they refuse to disregard it.

A good example is John MacArthur. In his book, Charismatic Chaos (I haven't read the new book yet but some sources tell me that it is nothing but "Charismatic Chaos" with a new cover) he hardly provides any Biblical support for his position. He primary rehashes Benjamin B. Warfield arguments and notes so-called wierd phenomenon among Pentecostals and Charismatics. That is just deciding to remain in deception.

Otherwise, let us sympathize with Oneness Pentecostals, Jehovah Witnesses, Christian Science, etc. They all seriously believe that they have Bible proof for their doctrines as well.

[victoryword]

I agree.... but can you give scripture that says angels had sex with human women to produce giants? I know scriptures says "sons of God" and "daughters of men" but those phrases are used as various times and places to represent human beings as well as spiritual beings. Therefore, since you said "let the Bible speak for itself" please show us where the Bible says "angels with humans" --- Remember - let the Bible speak for itself.

For me that is simple.

• That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.... There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. (Gen. 6:2, 4)

The passage places an emphasis on GIANTS!!! It emphasizes the fact that this occurred only after the SONS OF GOD had sex with the daughters of MEN. No where is Seth's descendants referred to as "sons of God" so that, and the fact that the offspring were GIANTS, rules them out completely.

Most of all, the only ones ever referred to as "sons of God" in the OT are ANGELS (Job 1:6; 2:1; 28:7; Dan. 3:25). Once again the Scripture has interpreted itself.

[Fit4theKingdom]

I agree.... but can you give scripture that says angels had sex with human women to produce giants? I know scriptures says "sons of God" and "daughters of men" but those phrases are used as various times and places to represent human beings as well as spiritual beings. Therefore, since you said "let the Bible speak for itself" please show us where the Bible says "angels with humans" --- Remember - let the Bible speak for itself.

For me that is simple.

• That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.... There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. (Gen. 6:2, 4)

The passage places an emphasis on GIANTS!!! It emphasizes the fact that this occurred only after the SONS OF GOD had sex with the daughters of MEN. No where is Seth's descendants referred to as "sons of God" so that, and the fact that the offspring were GIANTS, rules them out completely.

Most of all, the only ones ever referred to as "sons of God" in the OT are ANGELS (Job 1:6; 2:1; 28:7; Dan. 3:25). Once again the Scripture has interpreted itself.

Wonderful OPINION --- you see it is your OPINION that those scriptures apply to this passage. It is your OPINION that limits to only OT usages.

The phrase "sons of God" - can be angels - or it can be God fearing men! Giants can be men of great renown or men of large size! However, I can find a place where scripture does warn against marrying unbelievers hence "sons of God" and "daughters of men"

[bibleman]

I agree.... but can you give scripture that says angels had sex with human women to produce giants? I know scriptures says "sons of God" and "daughters of men" but those phrases are used as various times and places to represent human beings as well as spiritual beings. Therefore, since you said "let the Bible speak for itself" please show us where the Bible says "angels with humans" --- Remember - let the Bible speak for itself.

For me that is simple.

• That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.... There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. (Gen. 6:2, 4)

The passage places an emphasis on GIANTS!!! It emphasizes the fact that this occurred only after the SONS OF GOD had sex with the daughters of MEN. No where is Seth's descendants referred to as "sons of God" so that, and the fact that the offspring were GIANTS, rules them out completely.

Most of all, the only ones ever referred to as "sons of God" in the OT are ANGELS (Job 1:6; 2:1; 28:7; Dan. 3:25). Once again the Scripture has interpreted itself.

Wonderful OPINION --- you see it is your OPINION that those scriptures apply to this passage. It is your OPINION that limits to only OT usages.

The phrase "sons of God" - can be angels - or it can be God fearing men! Giants can be men of great renown or men of large size! However, I can find a place where scripture does warn against marrying unbelievers hence "sons of God" and "daughters of men"

Where do you get "God fearing men" from?

Son's of God are always created - never born physically.

OT - Angels and Adam called son of God - all created.

NT - Born again (new creation men) called son's of God.

Check it out.

[branham1965]

AMEN PASTOR BIBLE.

I agree.... but can you give scripture that says angels had sex with human women to produce giants? I know scriptures says "sons of God" and "daughters of men" but those phrases are used as various times and places to represent human beings as well as spiritual beings. Therefore, since you said "let the Bible speak for itself" please show us where the Bible says "angels with humans" --- Remember - let the Bible speak for itself.

For me that is simple.

• That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.... There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. (Gen. 6:2, 4)

The passage places an emphasis on GIANTS!!! It emphasizes the fact that this occurred only after the SONS OF GOD had sex with the daughters of MEN. No where is Seth's descendants referred to as "sons of God" so that, and the fact that the offspring were GIANTS, rules them out completely.

Most of all, the only ones ever referred to as "sons of God" in the OT are ANGELS (Job 1:6; 2:1; 28:7; Dan. 3:25). Once again the Scripture has interpreted itself.

Wonderful OPINION --- you see it is your OPINION that those scriptures apply to this passage. It is your OPINION that limits to only OT usages.

The phrase "sons of God" - can be angels - or it can be God fearing men! Giants can be men of great renown or men of large size! However, I can find a place where scripture does warn against marrying unbelievers hence "sons of God" and "daughters of men"

Where do you get "God fearing men" from?

Son's of God are always created - never born physically.

OT - Angels and Adam called son of God - all created.

NT - Born again (new creation men) called son's of God.

Check it out.

[victoryword]

Wonderful OPINION --- you see it is your OPINION that those scriptures apply to this passage. It is your OPINION that limits to only OT usages.

The phrase "sons of God" - can be angels - or it can be God fearing men! Giants can be men of great renown or men of large size! However, I can find a place where scripture does warn against marrying unbelievers hence "sons of God" and "daughters of men"

What you are saying can only be true if there is anywhere else in the OT where "sons of God" is used of anyone other than angels. Now tell me where a normal human male in Scripture has had sex with a woman and produced a GIANT? Why would the writer of Genesis emphasize that particular point? One must really intentionally ignore this in your face evidence to keep saying that the "sons of God" being angels is an "opinion".

It's easy to call someone's clear proof opinion because a person doesn't want to believe something.

[Rocky]

Wonderful OPINION --- you see it is your OPINION that those scriptures apply to this passage. It is your OPINION that limits to only OT usages.

The phrase "sons of God" - can be angels - or it can be God fearing men! Giants can be men of great renown or men of large size! However, I can find a place where scripture does warn against marrying unbelievers hence "sons of God" and "daughters of men"

Huh?

[Fit4theKingdom]

Where do you get "God fearing men" from?

Son's of God are always created - never born physically.

OT - Angels and Adam called son of God - all created.

NT - Born again (new creation men) called son's of God.

Check it out.

I did -- let the Bible speak for itself.... and where does the Bible say we can't use the NT to understand the OT?

But somehow I believe you will disagree with this opinion... because if the Word of God is correct and people in OT (and NT) are called 'sons of (the living) God' it means there you must re-think your OPINION. And to some it is easier to reject ideas you don't agree with.