Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Some questions for all those that say God isn't in control

[victoryword]

So I'm in agreement with you, there is no way God is not in control of all things for the Scripture say that He is.

Can you show me which part of the Bible where it is taught that God is in control?

[Justaned]

So I'm in agreement with you, there is no way God is not in control of all things for the Scripture say that He is.

Can you show me which part of the Bible where it is taught that God is in control?

1 Chronicles 16:31 (NKJV)
31 Let the heavens rejoice, and let the earth be glad; And let them say among the nations, "The Lord reigns."

Psalms 22:28 (NKJV)
28 For the kingdom is the Lord's, And He rules over the nations.

Psalms 47:2 (NKJV)
2 For the Lord Most High is awesome; He is a great King over all the earth.

Psalms 47:7 (NKJV)
7 For God is the King of all the earth; Sing praises with understanding.

Psalms 47:8 (NKJV)
8 God reigns over the nations; God sits on His holy throne.

Psalms 83:18 (NKJV)
18 That they may know that You, whose name alone is the Lord, Are the Most High over all the earth.

Psalms 135:6 (NKJV)
6 Whatever the Lord pleases He does, In heaven and in earth, In the seas and in all deep places.

Proverbs 21:1 (NKJV)
1 The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord, Like the rivers of water; He turns it wherever He wishes.

Isaiah 43:15 (NKJV)
15 I am the Lord, your Holy One, The Creator of Israel, your King."

Isaiah 44:6 (NKJV)
6 "Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: 'I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God.

Isaiah 54:5 (NKJV)
5 For your Maker is your husband, The Lord of hosts is His name; And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He is called the God of the whole earth.

Jeremiah 18:6 (NKJV)
6 "O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter?" says the Lord. "Look, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel!

Ezekiel 20:33 (NKJV)
33 "As I live," says the Lord God, "surely with a mighty hand, with an outstretched arm, and with fury poured out, I will rule over you.

Daniel 4:32 (NKJV)
32 And they shall drive you from men, and your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field. They shall make you eat grass like oxen; and seven times shall pass over you, until you know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomever He chooses."

Daniel 4:35 (NKJV)
35 All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; He does according to His will in the army of heaven And among the inhabitants of the earth. No one can restrain His hand Or say to Him, "What have You done?"

Acts 17:24 (NKJV)
24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.

Ephesians 1:11 (NKJV)
11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,

Jude 1:25 (NKJV)
25 To God our Savior, Who alone is wise, Be glory and majesty, Dominion and power, Both now and forever. Amen.

[victoryword]

None of the above say that God is in control. NIce try Ed but always remember the old saying:

A PROOFTEXT out of CONTEXT is nothing more than a PRETEXT.

[Justaned]

None of the above say that God is in control. NIce try Ed but always remember the old saying:

A PROOFTEXT out of CONTEXT is nothing more than a PRETEXT.

First I totally agree with prooftext out of context is pretext but you asked for verses and if you read these in context you will see that the meaning expressed in each one as they stand alone is the same meaning of each one within context.

Okay? Now while they don't actually use the words control they express that concept. If you doubt that then what does these verses mean?

Psalms 47:8 (NKJV)
8 God reigns over the nations; God sits on His holy throne.

To reaign over the nations means God controls the nations.

Psalms 135:6 (NKJV)
6 Whatever the Lord pleases He does, In heaven and in earth, In the seas and in all deep places.

To be able to do as you please means you are in control.


Daniel 4:35 (NKJV)
35 All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; He does according to His will in the army of heaven And among the inhabitants of the earth. No one can restrain His hand Or say to Him, "What have You done?"

To do according to your will among the inhabitants of the earth so that no one can restrain or question what He did.

And this is just three of the many that I supplied that shows God has total power and control of the the earth. To deny that denies that God is God.

[Justaned]

Psalm 47:2 (NKJV)
2 For the LORD Most High is awesome; He is a great King over all the earth.

Psalm 47:7 (NKJV)
7 For God is the King of all the earth; Sing praises with understanding.

Psalms 47:8 (NKJV)
8 God reigns over the nations; God sits on His holy throne.

Psalms 83:18 (NKJV)
18 That they may know that You, whose name alone is the Lord, Are the Most High over all the earth.

Jude 1:25 (NKJV)
25 To God our Savior, Who alone is wise, Be glory and majesty, Dominion and power, Both now and forever. Amen.

[Justaned]

Now repent of false teachings and half truths. Give Glory where Glory is due.
God is God and by any definition that means God is in control.

Scripture most certainly agrees as does any one that read God created creation.
Matthew 28:18 (NKJV)
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

You can't have all Authority unless you are in control.

[the_truth]

So I'm in agreement with you, there is no way God is not in control of all things for the Scripture say that He is.

Can you show me which part of the Bible where it is taught that God is in control?

I can't give you a verbatim verse that has the words "GOD is in control". In order for one believe HE is in control, one must accept the whole of the Scriptures. But if I had to pick a verse that sums up the fact that HIS will and plan are accomplished with men who can choose to obey are not, then i will use the following text for Isaiah: "Is 46:1-11". In these Scriptures the Most High is telling HIS people about HIMSELF. First, HE tells the House of Jacob that HE begot them and carried them IN THE WOMB. And that even from the womb to their old age, HE(The Father) will bear them and will BE THE SAME. In verse 4, HE emphatically stated I HAVE DONE it. Which means that everything related to Jacob and his House will surely come to pass NO MATTER the actions of the free-will men of Jacob. Then, comes the heart of the matter. Who is LIKE the Most High? HE affirmed HIMSELF, that there isn't a god, man, nor spirit, nor anything past, present, or to come that is LIKE HIM(the Father). <b>Is 46:9 For I am GOD, and there is NO OTHER....NO ONE LIKE ME.<b> Which means HE is not like MAN nor other gods. Why? Because as HE spoke, I DECLARE the end from the beginning. In order to declare the END you got to know the beginning and you have to know the in between, otherwise you would not be able to tell the WHOLE story. Then HE says, MY PURPOSE will be established and I WILL accomplish ALL MY GOOD PLEASURE.....Truly I HAVE SPOKEN; truly I will bring IT TO PASS. I have planned it, SURELY I WILL DO IT. Did GOD want HIS Prophets to be murdered? NO. But HE planned for it. Did HE want Jonah to skip town? NO. But HE planned for it. Did HE want Paul to persecute HIS Church? NO. But HE planned for it. Did HE want the Messiah to be killed? NO. But HE planned for it. Did HE want Israel to be led captive and astray? NO. But HE planned for it.

Everything that HE has planned has happened because HE PLANNED it that way. Is 14:24. When did GOD plan? HE planned WAY BEFORE the foundation of the world.(Is 25:1). How can HE know THE END without knowing the activities that lead up to the END. How can you know the END without first knowing how and where it first started. GOD's plan accounts for obedience and lack of obedience. We cannot stop GOD's plan with our actions. No angel, no man, nor anything to come can stop GOD's plan from happening. Because HE accounts for ALL things because HE is ALL-KNOWING. HIS plan allows for free-moral agents to act on their on accord. HIS plan allows for belief and unbelief. Jeremiah was CALLED and SANCTIFIED before HE was BORN. That was in GOD's plan. There is no way on earth for Jeremiah to have refused that calling, though Jeremiah TRIED. But GOD used HIS word to MAKE it come to pass because that was HIS plan and as HE said..."and just as i have planned, so it stand". What an awesome FATHER and GOD, there IS NONE LIKE HIM.

[victoryword]

Ed, agreeing with me about prooftexting while still feeding me Calvinist prooftexts on all-controlling sovereignty. Ed, Ed, Ed, u mekka mee laffoo mon.

If anyone else quotes a bunch of texts, they are prooftexting. If Ed quotes prooftexts then he is simply helping us to stop believing in our "false doctrines". If there was anything that vere made me dislike Hanegraaff and other heresy hunters was not so much that they accused us of being false teachers, but the ARROGANCE they displayed in their pablum, like your posts Ed.

Now Ed, how do you reconcile God being in control of the world with passages such as this:

• We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them. We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. (John 5:18-19; NIV)

Now Ed, is God the "evil one"? If He is then you are right, He is in control. If God is NOT the evil one then you are wrong Ed, God is NOT in control. Either God's Word is true and He is NOT controlling everything or Ed is just presenting the usual prooftexts that I often read in books by AW Pink and other Calvinist philosophers.

[titus213]

Sovereignty isn't an attribute. It is the right to exercise royal power, and the actual exercise of it. For example, Queen Elizabeth has sovereignty because she is the Queen of England. Once she hands over the throne to her successor, she will no longer be able to exercise sovereignty. It doesn't follow her as a personal trait.
God is sovereign because he is King. But the Bible reveals that he is not yet fully exercising his sovereignty -- his royal power -- over our world. He is in charge, but is not yet in control.

The Bible presents us with a story that unfolds in actual history. It tends to shy away from giving us doctrinal information (such as “the sovereignty of God") as isolated chunks of data. Instead, it presents these matters in the context of the real world and real life.

So in Genesis we read of the Creator who made man and woman and blessed them with an amazing creation to reign over and govern (Gen 1.26 and 28). But when they sinned, they handed over the governing of this world to someone else. They were no longer governing under God. They handed over control of the world to God’s ultimate enemy, Satan himself. He became “the god of this world” (2 Cor 4.4).

That's why we read some pretty startling things in the New Testament: Satan tempted Jesus by offering to give him authority over the kingdoms of the world because, Satan said, “they are mine to give to anyone I please” (Luke 4.6), and Jesus didn’t disagree; Jesus himself referred to Satan as “the ruler of this world” (John 12.31) and Paul called him “the ruler of the powers of the air” -- the unseen world (Ephesians 2.2); the apostle John writes that although the children of God are protected from the Evil One, the whole world around us is under his control (1 John 5.19). Satan is the de facto pseudo-ruler of this world system.

It isn't until the 7th trumpet is sounded in the Book of Revelation that the rightful King assumes his sovereign power and begins to reign (Rev 11.17; see also 19.6). In the meanwhile, as Christ's disciples, we have been taught to look forward to that time, praying "may your Kingdom come on earth" and also "rescue us from the Evil One"!

Christians are like resistance fighters, battling that usurper Satan until the true ruler returns. It's like what happened in WW II when the French government caved in to the Nazis and allowed them to enter France. At the time General Charles de Gaulle was in England, and went on the radio there to encourage the French people to ignore their government's surrender, and fight against Hitler under de Gaulle’s leadership. A large resistance movement began; de Gaulle was in charge of these forces, but he was not yet in control of military and political events in France until he returned at the end of the war.

So although we know that God is in charge and can and does overrule the evil of Satan for good (Romans 8.28), he is not yet in control of this world, and will not be until Christ returns. Paul's comments in Romans 8 are in fact written in the context of believers living in a world where God is not in control, a world still under God's curse, and therefore sometimes baffling believers by the events which take place in it. As resistance fighters, we need to “fight the good fight of faith”, resisting the Enemy as we eagerly await the King’s return.

[Justaned]

Ed, agreeing with me about prooftexting while still feeding me Calvinist prooftexts on all-controlling sovereignty. Ed, Ed, Ed, u mekka mee laffoo mon.

If anyone else quotes a bunch of texts, they are prooftexting. If Ed quotes prooftexts then he is simply helping us to stop believing in our "false doctrines". If there was anything that vere made me dislike Hanegraaff and other heresy hunters was not so much that they accused us of being false teachers, but the ARROGANCE they displayed in their pablum, like your posts Ed.

Now Ed, how do you reconcile God being in control of the world with passages such as this:

• We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them. We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. (John 5:18-19; NIV)

Now Ed, is God the "evil one"? If He is then you are right, He is in control. If God is NOT the evil one then you are wrong Ed, God is NOT in control. Either God's Word is true and He is NOT controlling everything or Ed is just presenting the usual prooftexts that I often read in books by AW Pink and other Calvinist philosophers.

First of all don't try to make this my problem. It was you that asked for verses that showed God to be in control. I gave them to you now you accuse me of proof texting and this and that. Nonsense! The verses stand alone and in context, I did not change their meaning by "ripping them from context"
Enough said!

Then you after you rant about me proof texting what you do you do. You proof text. You can not have it both ways. I ain't falling for your tactics.

Secondly you quote John 5:18-19 as proof of something.
However those verses

John 5:18-19 (NKJV)
18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.
19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.

Does not even hint of that.