Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ head knowledge or hear experience??

[Justaned]

REVEREND EDWARD * have you possibly considered becoming a Priest???
would it be Orthodox or Catholic???
please know im joking.

Ed, the Pope also makes affirmations of belief. For example the immaculate conception of Mary and the assumption of Mary, both were beliefs held by the Church and later declared dogma by a Pope. Yes, the Pope does settle differences of interpretation but also affirms and promotes beliefs.

Scott
I agree, but sit back and think about it, is it really any different that what some Pastors do in some independant churches, or what takes place in some denominations?

The point I tring to make is in religion you either convince the people you are speaking for God because if you don't they will discard it. If the Pope didn't declare to be speaking Ex Cathedra how would that settle any theological debate. People would say that is the only the opinion of the Pope and continue on. But by practice of Ex Cathedra the matter is once and for all settled and that is the end to it.

Billy
I don't think there is any danger of that happening, however I do believe the Protestant view of communion is wrong and I think the Catholics have it closer to the mark.
If I could get my arms fully around the eucharist I would be a happy person.
I think this is something the church is going to have to answer to.

My biggest hinderance to Catholicism is some of the teaching on Mary. Again I believe the Protestants are off in their treatment of Mary but I'm not comfortable with the Catholic view either.

I will say every time I enter a Catholic church I am totall immersed in the feeling of reverence and holiness. I was just a Catholic Funeral and it was every emotional to me, not the funeral aspect but the feeling of sancity, reverence, holiness, obedience, commitment.

My neighbor who I would call a nominial Christian goes to Mass every morning at 7 am. He serves the Eurcharist and is totally dedicated to going. The church parking lot on week day mornings are fuller than many Protestant Church parking lots on Sunday morning and I am forced to ask myself why. How do the Catholics get people to worship and serve?

Ed which Protestant view of the Eucharist as there are at least 3-4 that I am aware of.

Scott you are right there are at least that many and probably more.
I guess the one I most dislike is Baptist/Methodist/most independant one where communion is viewed as a mere memorial.
Communion is so much more than just a memorial, it is partaking in the covenant that was made be Jesus and God on our behalf. I think probably the Lutherans as close with their view but again I believe it is more. As I said I think the catholics are probably the closest.
I wonder if we get to heaven if we find out that communion as Jesus desired it, that it was meant to be a life changing event each time it was taken.

I remember the first time I served a communion as the pastor of a church. As I touched the trays I was filled with a sense of unworthiness not in myself but in how we viewed communion. I served communion in fear and trembling that day and every time since. I have spent hours in prayer for God to reveal to me the fullness of communion. That launched me into another study on blood covenants,
I think part of the problem is we don't understand covenants and covenant making. Our view of covenants is most easily reflected in how we view the wedding covenant.

I believe if we ever captured the fullness of what communion was, our Christian walks would be changed and we would see the Christ of Jesus Christ in an entirely different light.

[scottae316]

REVEREND EDWARD * have you possibly considered becoming a Priest???
would it be Orthodox or Catholic???
please know im joking.

Ed, the Pope also makes affirmations of belief. For example the immaculate conception of Mary and the assumption of Mary, both were beliefs held by the Church and later declared dogma by a Pope. Yes, the Pope does settle differences of interpretation but also affirms and promotes beliefs.

Scott
I agree, but sit back and think about it, is it really any different that what some Pastors do in some independant churches, or what takes place in some denominations?

The point I tring to make is in religion you either convince the people you are speaking for God because if you don't they will discard it. If the Pope didn't declare to be speaking Ex Cathedra how would that settle any theological debate. People would say that is the only the opinion of the Pope and continue on. But by practice of Ex Cathedra the matter is once and for all settled and that is the end to it.

Billy
I don't think there is any danger of that happening, however I do believe the Protestant view of communion is wrong and I think the Catholics have it closer to the mark.
If I could get my arms fully around the eucharist I would be a happy person.
I think this is something the church is going to have to answer to.

My biggest hinderance to Catholicism is some of the teaching on Mary. Again I believe the Protestants are off in their treatment of Mary but I'm not comfortable with the Catholic view either.

I will say every time I enter a Catholic church I am totall immersed in the feeling of reverence and holiness. I was just a Catholic Funeral and it was every emotional to me, not the funeral aspect but the feeling of sancity, reverence, holiness, obedience, commitment.

My neighbor who I would call a nominial Christian goes to Mass every morning at 7 am. He serves the Eurcharist and is totally dedicated to going. The church parking lot on week day mornings are fuller than many Protestant Church parking lots on Sunday morning and I am forced to ask myself why. How do the Catholics get people to worship and serve?

Ed which Protestant view of the Eucharist as there are at least 3-4 that I am aware of.

Scott you are right there are at least that many and probably more.
I guess the one I most dislike is Baptist/Methodist/most independant one where communion is viewed as a mere memorial.
Communion is so much more than just a memorial, it is partaking in the covenant that was made be Jesus and God on our behalf. I think probably the Lutherans as close with their view but again I believe it is more. As I said I think the catholics are probably the closest.
I wonder if we get to heaven if we find out that communion as Jesus desired it, that it was meant to be a life changing event each time it was taken.

I remember the first time I served a communion as the pastor of a church. As I touched the trays I was filled with a sense of unworthiness not in myself but in how we viewed communion. I served communion in fear and trembling that day and every time since. I have spent hours in prayer for God to reveal to me the fullness of communion. That launched me into another study on blood covenants,
I think part of the problem is we don't understand covenants and covenant making. Our view of covenants is most easily reflected in how we view the wedding covenant.

I believe if we ever captured the fullness of what communion was, our Christian walks would be changed and we would see the Christ of Jesus Christ in an entirely different light.

Ed,

I agree with you that the symbolic/memorial view seems to be lacking in view of the whole of Scripture. I think that the Roman Catholics go to far by adding an Greek philosophical twist to it. What is your understanding of the Lutheran view?

[macca]

REVEREND EDWARD * have you possibly considered becoming a Priest???
would it be Orthodox or Catholic???
please know im joking.

Ed, the Pope also makes affirmations of belief. For example the immaculate conception of Mary and the assumption of Mary, both were beliefs held by the Church and later declared dogma by a Pope. Yes, the Pope does settle differences of interpretation but also affirms and promotes beliefs.

Scott
I agree, but sit back and think about it, is it really any different that what some Pastors do in some independant churches, or what takes place in some denominations?

The point I tring to make is in religion you either convince the people you are speaking for God because if you don't they will discard it. If the Pope didn't declare to be speaking Ex Cathedra how would that settle any theological debate. People would say that is the only the opinion of the Pope and continue on. But by practice of Ex Cathedra the matter is once and for all settled and that is the end to it.

Billy
I don't think there is any danger of that happening, however I do believe the Protestant view of communion is wrong and I think the Catholics have it closer to the mark.
If I could get my arms fully around the eucharist I would be a happy person.
I think this is something the church is going to have to answer to.

My biggest hinderance to Catholicism is some of the teaching on Mary. Again I believe the Protestants are off in their treatment of Mary but I'm not comfortable with the Catholic view either.

I will say every time I enter a Catholic church I am totall immersed in the feeling of reverence and holiness. I was just a Catholic Funeral and it was every emotional to me, not the funeral aspect but the feeling of sancity, reverence, holiness, obedience, commitment.

My neighbor who I would call a nominial Christian goes to Mass every morning at 7 am. He serves the Eurcharist and is totally dedicated to going. The church parking lot on week day mornings are fuller than many Protestant Church parking lots on Sunday morning and I am forced to ask myself why. How do the Catholics get people to worship and serve?

Ed which Protestant view of the Eucharist as there are at least 3-4 that I am aware of.

Scott you are right there are at least that many and probably more.
I guess the one I most dislike is Baptist/Methodist/most independant one where communion is viewed as a mere memorial.
Communion is so much more than just a memorial, it is partaking in the covenant that was made be Jesus and God on our behalf. I think probably the Lutherans as close with their view but again I believe it is more. As I said I think the catholics are probably the closest.
I wonder if we get to heaven if we find out that communion as Jesus desired it, that it was meant to be a life changing event each time it was taken.

I remember the first time I served a communion as the pastor of a church. As I touched the trays I was filled with a sense of unworthiness not in myself but in how we viewed communion. I served communion in fear and trembling that day and every time since. I have spent hours in prayer for God to reveal to me the fullness of communion. That launched me into another study on blood covenants,
I think part of the problem is we don't understand covenants and covenant making. Our view of covenants is most easily reflected in how we view the wedding covenant.

I believe if we ever captured the fullness of what communion was, our Christian walks would be changed and we would see the Christ of Jesus Christ in an entirely different light.

I remember watching the world communion service and Ken Copeland, T L Osborn and Yongi cho bring out the covenant side of the service.

I have always believed there is much more to communion then most christians see or understand.

macca

[Ray]

At Communion, we both look back to Our LORD's Sacrificial Death and Remember, and we look forward to Our LORD's Glorious Coming and Hope. The Eucharist is charged with Worship, Praise,Thanksgiving,and Anticipation. I pray that each time we receive the Elements with Thanksgiving we will both Commemorate and Celebrate. Even so, COME LORD JESUS!

[branham1965]

AS THE LORD LIVETH my late Pastor preached in Yoido Full Gospel Church in Seoul Korea.Dr.Cho's Church.he was so impressed with MY late Pastor he had him come there!!!!my Reverend could preach with Unction.HE KNEW WHO HE WAS TALKING ABOUT
and then he could demonstrate it !!!!!!!!!!!!cf Mark 16:15-20.he was an Elder with Morris Cerullo and Alexander Ness.

MACCA now please beware mate!!! if you get to saying Water Baptism is not a mere meaningless ordinance watch out!!!!look how you were ignored about it.you do it like Dad Hagin did.
if you teach Holy Communion is a holy SACRAMENT now you watch out!!!
you are about to get the hardshell creedbook bullrush!!!!!

I POSTED ON HERE MANY TIMES THAT THE EASTERN ORTHODOX CHURCH WHICH REALLY PRECEDED THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TAUGHT THE ELEMENTS WERE CHANGED.THE EARLY CHRISTIANS TAUGHT THIS.BUT NOT INTO THE HEAR ME NOT INTO THE LITERAL BODY B;LOOD OF CHRIST LIKE CATHOLICS TEACH BUT IT IS SPIRITUALLY CHANGED!!!!REMEMBER!!!
the know it all hardshellers mocked it saying ""why theres no way that could be!!!thats stupid!!!!it doesnt mean all that you dummy...
theres a good book for sale on here the Eternal Church by Bill Hamon.get it and read it!!!!ive mentioned it 10,000 times.I NEVER HAD ONE RESPONSE. id best watch KEVIN CONNER'S book on WATER BAPTISM was pulled off there.i kept talking about him and it AND GREAT CEASAR'S GHOST ITS GONE!!!!HARDSHELLED!!!!
' gig em Aggies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!wwwwwhhhooooooooooooooppppppppppppppp!!!!!
COLLEGE FOOTBALL IS THE BEST SPORT IN THE WORLD.TEXAS A&M UNIVERSITY HAD A FRESHMAN JOHNNY MANZIEL WIN THE HEISMAN TROPHY.THUS THE WHOOPING.I LOVE COLLEGE FOOTBALL.

REVEREND EDWARD * have you possibly considered becoming a Priest???
would it be Orthodox or Catholic???
please know im joking.

Ed, the Pope also makes affirmations of belief. For example the immaculate conception of Mary and the assumption of Mary, both were beliefs held by the Church and later declared dogma by a Pope. Yes, the Pope does settle differences of interpretation but also affirms and promotes beliefs.

Scott
I agree, but sit back and think about it, is it really any different that what some Pastors do in some independant churches, or what takes place in some denominations?

The point I tring to make is in religion you either convince the people you are speaking for God because if you don't they will discard it. If the Pope didn't declare to be speaking Ex Cathedra how would that settle any theological debate. People would say that is the only the opinion of the Pope and continue on. But by practice of Ex Cathedra the matter is once and for all settled and that is the end to it.

Billy
I don't think there is any danger of that happening, however I do believe the Protestant view of communion is wrong and I think the Catholics have it closer to the mark.
If I could get my arms fully around the eucharist I would be a happy person.
I think this is something the church is going to have to answer to.

My biggest hinderance to Catholicism is some of the teaching on Mary. Again I believe the Protestants are off in their treatment of Mary but I'm not comfortable with the Catholic view either.

I will say every time I enter a Catholic church I am totall immersed in the feeling of reverence and holiness. I was just a Catholic Funeral and it was every emotional to me, not the funeral aspect but the feeling of sancity, reverence, holiness, obedience, commitment.

My neighbor who I would call a nominial Christian goes to Mass every morning at 7 am. He serves the Eurcharist and is totally dedicated to going. The church parking lot on week day mornings are fuller than many Protestant Church parking lots on Sunday morning and I am forced to ask myself why. How do the Catholics get people to worship and serve?

Ed which Protestant view of the Eucharist as there are at least 3-4 that I am aware of.

Scott you are right there are at least that many and probably more.
I guess the one I most dislike is Baptist/Methodist/most independant one where communion is viewed as a mere memorial.
Communion is so much more than just a memorial, it is partaking in the covenant that was made be Jesus and God on our behalf. I think probably the Lutherans as close with their view but again I believe it is more. As I said I think the catholics are probably the closest.
I wonder if we get to heaven if we find out that communion as Jesus desired it, that it was meant to be a life changing event each time it was taken.

I remember the first time I served a communion as the pastor of a church. As I touched the trays I was filled with a sense of unworthiness not in myself but in how we viewed communion. I served communion in fear and trembling that day and every time since. I have spent hours in prayer for God to reveal to me the fullness of communion. That launched me into another study on blood covenants,
I think part of the problem is we don't understand covenants and covenant making. Our view of covenants is most easily reflected in how we view the wedding covenant.

I believe if we ever captured the fullness of what communion was, our Christian walks would be changed and we would see the Christ of Jesus Christ in an entirely different light.

I remember watching the world communion service and Ken Copeland, T L Osborn and Yongi cho bring out the covenant side of the service.

I have always believed there is much more to communion then most christians see or understand.

macca

[bibleman]

theres a good book for sale on here the Eternal Church by Bill Hamon.get it and read it!!!!ive mentioned it 10,000 times.I NEVER HAD ONE RESPONSE. id best watch KEVIN CONNER'S book on WATER BAPTISM was pulled off there.i kept talking about him and it AND GREAT CEASAR'S GHOST ITS GONE!!!!HARDSHELLED!!!!

Hi Billy,

The book being discussed is a book by Kevin Conner called "Water Baptism."

It was on my wife's website along will ALL of Kevin Conner's books. Sadly since Kevin Conner's retirement (85 years old) his books are slowly going out of print. Out of the 45 books that Conner has done and are on her website, 17 of them are no longer in print. Water Baptism is one of them. You can't get it anywhere, unless you find it used or someone just happens to have one left.

You can get a used one on amazon for $24.00. http://www.amazon.com/Scriptural-Thesis ... 0949829048

The book is no longer available, it was NOT removed from her site. My wife is not a hardsheller Billy.

Just thought you would want to know.

[branham1965]

I did not know that Pastor Bible.
my God.
I am ashamed to speak.Im ...sorry.

[Justaned]

Ed,

I agree with you that the symbolic/memorial view seems to be lacking in view of the whole of Scripture. I think that the Roman Catholics go to far by adding an Greek philosophical twist to it. What is your understanding of the Lutheran view?

As I understand the Lutheran perspective there are two views one called Consubstanion where the bread and wine remain bread and wine but also are the actual body and blood of Jesus. The other Sacramental union the elements unite with the actual body and blood of Jesus. As you partake you eat bread and drink wine but you also eat of flesh and drink of the blood of Jesus.

To me, both of these appear to be dances around Catholic communion with the later probably closer to what actually transpires spiritually.

My problem is Protestants, Lutherans(not saying they aren't Protestant ) and Catholics all tend to focus on methodology rather than on spiritual significance. I believe communion when done with the correct spiritual understanding is the MOST powerful event in the Christians life, both physically and spiritually.

And I believe that just as 1 Cor 11:29 says that communion taken incorrectly is reason for many to be sick and to died early.

I have a friend I very much respected and viewed as a true prophet spend the better part of the day with me explaining communion. One of the things he said to me that has stuck all these years is when he asked me a question. It seemed odd at the time. He asked me what was the worst drunk I ever witnessed? I didn't know what he was talking about, so he said you have seen drunks which were the worst, the ones that got drunk on beer, or whiskey or wine? I told him the worst I saw were wino's He agreed. Now remember we are talking about communion and he made the analogy that wino's miss use wine just as many today misuse the wine of communion. He was saying in physical reality a wino is worst drunk and that anyone that misuses the wine of communion is worst in the spiritual realm.

That was over 20 years ago and I ponder it yet today.

Again I really believe why some are sick and many die before their time is because of the incorrect view of communion. I don't mean methodology but what has and is taking place in the spiritual realities. I go back to John 6 where Jesus clearly tells us what we must have to have life.

[bibleman]

I did not know that Pastor Bible.
my God.
I am ashamed to speak.Im ...sorry.

Apology accepted!

Just forget it, and try to be considerate of others when you post.

Enjoy your day.

[scottae316]

Ed,

I agree with you that the symbolic/memorial view seems to be lacking in view of the whole of Scripture. I think that the Roman Catholics go to far by adding an Greek philosophical twist to it. What is your understanding of the Lutheran view?

As I understand the Lutheran perspective there are two views one called Consubstanion where the bread and wine remain bread and wine but also are the actual body and blood of Jesus. The other Sacramental union the elements unite with the actual body and blood of Jesus. As you partake you eat bread and drink wine but you also eat of flesh and drink of the blood of Jesus.

To me, both of these appear to be dances around Catholic communion with the later probably closer to what actually transpires spiritually.

My problem is Protestants, Lutherans(not saying they aren't Protestant ) and Catholics all tend to focus on methodology rather than on spiritual significance. I believe communion when done with the correct spiritual understanding is the MOST powerful event in the Christians life, both physically and spiritually.

And I believe that just as 1 Cor 11:29 says that communion taken incorrectly is reason for many to be sick and to died early.

I have a friend I very much respected and viewed as a true prophet spend the better part of the day with me explaining communion. One of the things he said to me that has stuck all these years is when he asked me a question. It seemed odd at the time. He asked me what was the worst drunk I ever witnessed? I didn't know what he was talking about, so he said you have seen drunks which were the worst, the ones that got drunk on beer, or whiskey or wine? I told him the worst I saw were wino's He agreed. Now remember we are talking about communion and he made the analogy that wino's miss use wine just as many today misuse the wine of communion. He was saying in physical reality a wino is worst drunk and that anyone that misuses the wine of communion is worst in the spiritual realm.

That was over 20 years ago and I ponder it yet today.

Again I really believe why some are sick and many die before their time is because of the incorrect view of communion. I don't mean methodology but what has and is taking place in the spiritual realities. I go back to John 6 where Jesus clearly tells us what we must have to have life.

Ed, you are basically correct about the two views. The second is probably the more "orthodox" Lutheran view and Consubstantiation while often stated as the Lutheran view is not what most conservative Lutherans hold. Simply put it is the bread and wine and the body and blood as Scripture states, how is not understood by us. I also agree that the ordinance view ignores 1 Corinthians 11:29 and its warnings. I am not sure I understand what you mean by focus on methodology and spiritual significance? I agree that the Roman Catholic View does this, but as to the Lutheran and even more so the Reformed view I am not sure why you say this? Your friends analogy is interesting and I will have to think a bit on it.