Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Finis Dake's View of Spirtual Warfare

[Justaned]

Perhaps this will better explain what I'm talking about when I say sin nature.
I realize it is long but if you want to understand the true nature of the sin nature start by reading this.

There is no promise in the Scripture that a Christian, in this life, will ever reach the place where he will no longer sin: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" (1 Jn. 1:8). There are those who teach that it is possible to have an experience of sanctification, which they call a second work of grace. It is described in the following quotation:

The heart is purified, cleansed and made holy. It is purged of that inbred sin nature; and from that time on, temptation comes only from without, not from within a heart that is sanctified. No one ever becomes so completely perfected that he is not subject to temptation. But one has greater and more glorious victory after he is sanctified because he no longer has to contend with the carnal nature. It has been removed.

How wonderful that would be if it were true!

The carnal nature, the flesh, never becomes sanctified: "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (Jn. 3:6). God never builds on the old, fleshly, sinful nature. He always begins with something new. That is why Jesus said, "Ye must be born again" (Jn. 3:7). The flesh never becomes spiritual. Do not expect it to do so. The flesh in the most saintly person is the same flesh that is in the worst of sinners.
Paul likens the two sons of Abraham to the two natures of the believer: the fleshly nature and the new spiritual nature that he receives in the new birth. "For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.... But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now" (Gal. 4:22-23, 29). The flesh always opposes the Spirit. What are we to do? "Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman" (v. 30). Ishmael could not be corrected. He had to be cast out (Gen. 21:10). This is the way to deal with the flesh. Thus Paul admonishes, "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 6:11). The flesh cannot be overcome by eradication. It will always be there as long as we are in this earthly body, neither can it be overcome by suppression. Some have earnestly tried to gain victory by the power of their will and the energy of the flesh. The victory is seen to be only through identification with Christ. Paul said, "I am crucified with Christ; nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me" (Gal. 2:20).
Guy P. Duffield and Nathaniel M. Van Cleave, Foundations of Pentecostal Theology, (Los Angeles, CA: Foursquare Media, 2008), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 245-246.

[Rocky]

Ed wrote:Rocky well at least your was not dead. Whew!

I'm also glad to hear you can't be tempted since the area of our being our propensity for sin (otherwise known as a sin nature) is dead in you. I unfortunately can still be tempted. I still need Jesus as my intercessor. But I'm glad to hear you beyond all of that. Praise God!

Never said that the devil never tempts me. But I guess by your logic we were never crucified with Christ. Because he have that sin nature. So Ed did Jesus have a sin nature as you say or proclivities to yield to the sin? Do you agree with Dakes teaching about the sin nature? And again you did not read what I wrote did you.

I did read it. What did I miss? Or what did I say that makes you think I didn't read it?

Rocky you agree you can be tempted? Right What do you call the part of you that allows temptation to entice you? I not talking about sinning, I'm talking strictly about the part of human nature that allows temptation to tempt us.

I never said I was beyond temptation. I didn't mean Satan doesn't tempt me I'm saying we have to crucify the thing in us that make temptation attractive to us so we don't sin. Dake to my understanding really doesn't address man's sin nature but instead talks of old man. The part of our being that bound to the law that was set free or killed by Jesus death on the cross for all those that are in Christ.

Tell me what you think Dake says about sin nature because I'm not aware of him talking about it. I don't deny he did I just saying I don't recall him talking about it.

Dake taught on his tape "God's Plan for Man Series: Sin, Sanctification, New Birth, Eternal Life, 4802, side 2" that the sin nature is nothing more or less (in his words) than the old man or the spirit of the devil working in the hearts of men.

Leon, Ed does not like anything Dake teaches on this, so to point him to what Dake taught on this subject is going to be a little futile. Ed is here to set these Dake heresies straight. lol

[Justaned]

Ed wrote:Rocky well at least your was not dead. Whew!

I'm also glad to hear you can't be tempted since the area of our being our propensity for sin (otherwise known as a sin nature) is dead in you. I unfortunately can still be tempted. I still need Jesus as my intercessor. But I'm glad to hear you beyond all of that. Praise God!

Never said that the devil never tempts me. But I guess by your logic we were never crucified with Christ. Because he have that sin nature. So Ed did Jesus have a sin nature as you say or proclivities to yield to the sin? Do you agree with Dakes teaching about the sin nature? And again you did not read what I wrote did you.

I did read it. What did I miss? Or what did I say that makes you think I didn't read it?

Rocky you agree you can be tempted? Right What do you call the part of you that allows temptation to entice you? I not talking about sinning, I'm talking strictly about the part of human nature that allows temptation to tempt us.

I never said I was beyond temptation. I didn't mean Satan doesn't tempt me I'm saying we have to crucify the thing in us that make temptation attractive to us so we don't sin. Dake to my understanding really doesn't address man's sin nature but instead talks of old man. The part of our being that bound to the law that was set free or killed by Jesus death on the cross for all those that are in Christ.

Tell me what you think Dake says about sin nature because I'm not aware of him talking about it. I don't deny he did I just saying I don't recall him talking about it.

Dake taught on his tape "God's Plan for Man Series: Sin, Sanctification, New Birth, Eternal Life, 4802, side 2" that the sin nature is nothing more or less (in his words) than the old man or the spirit of the devil working in the hearts of men.

Leon, Ed does not like anything Dake teaches on this, so to point him to what Dake taught on this subject is going to be a little futile. Ed is here to set these Dake heresies straight. lol

rocky
Read where the quote in my last post came from. A book that is well received by all leading Pentecostal leadership called the Foundations of Pentecostal Theology. Now if my theology is so off the wall why was it echoed in this book?

Now ask yourself was Jesus able to be tempted. If so what was the thing in him that could be tempted? Scripture calls it our flesh which was tainted by sin in the garden (sin nature). If we are in Christ we are to crucify the flesh. What does that leave? Only our spirit man. Jesus to us to be born again to awaken to the spirit man within us and be lead of him not the sin tainted flesh. John tell us in 1 John that we are tempted by the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and pride of life.

Where are you tempted. In your spirit? Or is by your flesh?

[Rocky]

Ed wrote:Rocky well at least your was not dead. Whew!

I'm also glad to hear you can't be tempted since the area of our being our propensity for sin (otherwise known as a sin nature) is dead in you. I unfortunately can still be tempted. I still need Jesus as my intercessor. But I'm glad to hear you beyond all of that. Praise God!

Never said that the devil never tempts me. But I guess by your logic we were never crucified with Christ. Because he have that sin nature. So Ed did Jesus have a sin nature as you say or proclivities to yield to the sin? Do you agree with Dakes teaching about the sin nature? And again you did not read what I wrote did you.

I did read it. What did I miss? Or what did I say that makes you think I didn't read it?

Rocky you agree you can be tempted? Right What do you call the part of you that allows temptation to entice you? I not talking about sinning, I'm talking strictly about the part of human nature that allows temptation to tempt us.

I never said I was beyond temptation. I didn't mean Satan doesn't tempt me I'm saying we have to crucify the thing in us that make temptation attractive to us so we don't sin. Dake to my understanding really doesn't address man's sin nature but instead talks of old man. The part of our being that bound to the law that was set free or killed by Jesus death on the cross for all those that are in Christ.

Tell me what you think Dake says about sin nature because I'm not aware of him talking about it. I don't deny he did I just saying I don't recall him talking about it.

Dake taught on his tape "God's Plan for Man Series: Sin, Sanctification, New Birth, Eternal Life, 4802, side 2" that the sin nature is nothing more or less (in his words) than the old man or the spirit of the devil working in the hearts of men.

Leon, Ed does not like anything Dake teaches on this, so to point him to what Dake taught on this subject is going to be a little futile. Ed is here to set these Dake heresies straight. lol

rocky
Read where the quote in my last post came from. A book that is well received by all leading Pentecostal leadership called the Foundations of Pentecostal Theology. Now if my theology is so off the wall why was it echoed in this book?

Now ask yourself was Jesus able to be tempted. If so what was the thing in him that could be tempted? Scripture calls it our flesh which was tainted by sin in the garden (sin nature). If we are in Christ we are to crucify the flesh. What does that leave? Only our spirit man. Jesus to us to be born again to awaken to the spirit man within us and be lead of him not the sin tainted flesh. John tell us in 1 John that we are tempted by the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and pride of life.

Where are you tempted. In your spirit? Or is by your flesh?

I really don't understand the question.

[Justaned]

Ed wrote:Rocky well at least your was not dead. Whew!

I'm also glad to hear you can't be tempted since the area of our being our propensity for sin (otherwise known as a sin nature) is dead in you. I unfortunately can still be tempted. I still need Jesus as my intercessor. But I'm glad to hear you beyond all of that. Praise God!

Never said that the devil never tempts me. But I guess by your logic we were never crucified with Christ. Because he have that sin nature. So Ed did Jesus have a sin nature as you say or proclivities to yield to the sin? Do you agree with Dakes teaching about the sin nature? And again you did not read what I wrote did you.

I did read it. What did I miss? Or what did I say that makes you think I didn't read it?

Rocky you agree you can be tempted? Right What do you call the part of you that allows temptation to entice you? I not talking about sinning, I'm talking strictly about the part of human nature that allows temptation to tempt us.

I never said I was beyond temptation. I didn't mean Satan doesn't tempt me I'm saying we have to crucify the thing in us that make temptation attractive to us so we don't sin. Dake to my understanding really doesn't address man's sin nature but instead talks of old man. The part of our being that bound to the law that was set free or killed by Jesus death on the cross for all those that are in Christ.

Tell me what you think Dake says about sin nature because I'm not aware of him talking about it. I don't deny he did I just saying I don't recall him talking about it.

Dake taught on his tape "God's Plan for Man Series: Sin, Sanctification, New Birth, Eternal Life, 4802, side 2" that the sin nature is nothing more or less (in his words) than the old man or the spirit of the devil working in the hearts of men.

Leon, Ed does not like anything Dake teaches on this, so to point him to what Dake taught on this subject is going to be a little futile. Ed is here to set these Dake heresies straight. lol

rocky
Read where the quote in my last post came from. A book that is well received by all leading Pentecostal leadership called the Foundations of Pentecostal Theology. Now if my theology is so off the wall why was it echoed in this book?

Now ask yourself was Jesus able to be tempted. If so what was the thing in him that could be tempted? Scripture calls it our flesh which was tainted by sin in the garden (sin nature). If we are in Christ we are to crucify the flesh. What does that leave? Only our spirit man. Jesus to us to be born again to awaken to the spirit man within us and be lead of him not the sin tainted flesh. John tell us in 1 John that we are tempted by the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and pride of life.

Where are you tempted. In your spirit? Or is by your flesh?

I really don't understand the question.

When your tempted what is tempted in you. You fleshly desires or spiritual desire?

[Rocky]

When your tempted what is tempted in you. You fleshly desires or spiritual desire?

Satan and demons spirits. I don't have any desires for sin. Do you? Nothing about sin is appealing to me. Again, I am indeed dead to sin and alive in Christ. I am crucified with Christ. I have put off the old man, I am born again. I am a new creature in Christ Jesus. I walk in the spirit. I have been transformed by the renewing of my mind, I am sanctified, I am justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. I think you get the idea here. Do you not believe these things about your self? One does not have a sin nature if he believes these things and have done these things and believes that these things have been done. Faith, what a wonderful thing.

[victoryword]

When your tempted what is tempted in you. You fleshly desires or spiritual desire?

Satan and demons spirits. I don't have any desires for sin. Do you? Nothing about sin is appealing to me. Again, I am indeed dead to sin and alive in Christ. I am crucified with Christ. I have put off the old man, I am born again. I am a new creature in Christ Jesus. I walk in the spirit. I have been transformed by the renewing of my mind, I am sanctified, I am justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. I think you get the idea here. Do you not believe these things about your self? One does not have a sin nature if he believes these things and have done these things and believes that these things have been done. Faith, what a wonderful thing.

Good post

[Justaned]

When your tempted what is tempted in you. You fleshly desires or spiritual desire?

Satan and demons spirits. I don't have any desires for sin. Do you? Nothing about sin is appealing to me. Again, I am indeed dead to sin and alive in Christ. I am crucified with Christ. I have put off the old man, I am born again. I am a new creature in Christ Jesus. I walk in the spirit. I have been transformed by the renewing of my mind, I am sanctified, I am justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. I think you get the idea here. Do you not believe these things about your self? One does not have a sin nature if he believes these things and have done these things and believes that these things have been done. Faith, what a wonderful thing.

So your saying you don't sin?

1 John 1:10 (NKJV)
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

[victoryword]

So your saying you don't sin?

1 John 1:10 (NKJV)
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

I hate when people quote that passage out of context:

• 1 John 1:
  5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
  6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
  7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
  8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
  9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
  10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

If John was saying that a person MUST always be sinning then he would never have said:

• 1 John 3
  5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
  6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
  7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
  8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
  9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
  10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Keep it in context Ed and you may get delivered from your false doctrines.

[Rocky]

When your tempted what is tempted in you. You fleshly desires or spiritual desire?

Satan and demons spirits. I don't have any desires for sin. Do you? Nothing about sin is appealing to me. Again, I am indeed dead to sin and alive in Christ. I am crucified with Christ. I have put off the old man, I am born again. I am a new creature in Christ Jesus. I walk in the spirit. I have been transformed by the renewing of my mind, I am sanctified, I am justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. I think you get the idea here. Do you not believe these things about your self? One does not have a sin nature if he believes these things and have done these things and believes that these things have been done. Faith, what a wonderful thing.

So your saying you don't sin?

1 John 1:10 (NKJV)
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

So do you? Have you not counted your self crucified with Christ brother. I did not say I have never sinned, noticed the past tense on the word in the scripture you used. I hope I don't, I have faith in the cross not to, we must walk in the spirit not to. So, not that I am aware of, but if we do we must confess it, or it incurs the death penalty, What I am saying we can have victory over sin and not be ruled by it. I am not saying that to boast about my self, I just believe the death and resurrection of Jesus is that powerful.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. and Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin ; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
I love plain easy to understand scripture. I never said I was ever with out sin, I needed a savior as well. But one can live in victory over it.

So Ed if sin is transgression of the law are you saying you have still have to, lie, steal, covet, commit adultery. murder, blasphemed God, worship idols, walk in the flesh And other sins that incurs the death penalty? if that is the case perhaps some one has not put on Christ. I am saying there is victory and Jesus. I love that hymn by the way