Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ WHAT IS LORDSHIP SALVATION????

[bibleman]

As someone said salvation requires the acknowledgement that Jesus is Lord.

Then the question becomes by lip service only or in actuality.

If Jesus must be acknowledged Lord then our lives have to be guided by Jesus. If not we are just paying lip service to the acknowledgement then.

Everything in reference to salvation today is the initial step get you saved then get you conditioned to being in church and paying your tithe. If you are in a Pentecostal environment you are taught to speak in tongues and if WOF taught to trust in your faith. And of course all teach on the "rules"

But very little is taught about forming a relationship with Christ, drawing closer to God, seeking to be lead by God, committing your life to Christ, living a sanctified lifestyle, developing a prayer life that is meaningful, growing in faith so they your trust in God's will for your life is better realized.

Is Jesus Lord in name only or in fact is Jesus Lord of your life? That is the question.

Ed!

I didn't think Pentecostals "taught" people to speak in tongues?

[Justaned]

As someone said salvation requires the acknowledgement that Jesus is Lord.

Then the question becomes by lip service only or in actuality.

If Jesus must be acknowledged Lord then our lives have to be guided by Jesus. If not we are just paying lip service to the acknowledgement then.

Everything in reference to salvation today is the initial step get you saved then get you conditioned to being in church and paying your tithe. If you are in a Pentecostal environment you are taught to speak in tongues and if WOF taught to trust in your faith. And of course all teach on the "rules"

But very little is taught about forming a relationship with Christ, drawing closer to God, seeking to be lead by God, committing your life to Christ, living a sanctified lifestyle, developing a prayer life that is meaningful, growing in faith so they your trust in God's will for your life is better realized.

Is Jesus Lord in name only or in fact is Jesus Lord of your life? That is the question.

Ed!

I didn't think Pentecostals "taught" people to speak in tongues?

I didn't mean to imply that was God's way I just said that is how it is done in many churches.

[Rocky]

I agree that is why I said this theology is very compatible with Calvinism. Which is why the likes of Paul washer and John MacArthur teach Lordship salvation along with Calvinism. Another thing I have studied on is there are two kinds of LS.,Calvinistic lordship salvation and Arminian LS, So to this, even Pentecostals adhere to it as well and get mistaken for being a Calvinist when in fact they are not, they are Armenian Lordship salvation . What I gave was a general overview of both versions of it.

Good post Rocky. I Fully agree with you from what I am seeing about this teaching thus far.

However, I wouldn't want us to lose site of the fact that part of our salvation is to acknowledge that Jesus is Lord (Rom. 10:9-10). And also:

• Hebrews 5:9
  And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

There is a tendency for us to reaact against a teaching by going to the extreme opposite of it. I think the difference between "Lordship salvation" which contains a nugget of truth mixed with a lie and the true Bible teaching on obedience is that when I am saved I will obey and not that I am obeying in order to earn salvation or in fear that my disobediene means that I am not one of the "elect" as the "P" in TULIP teaches.

Great points brother. Isn't it weird that all false theology has a nugget of truth in it? Its like it has just enough to attract people to it, Satan is very clever in that. And yeah it does have hint of Calvinism, But some how self professing Armenians believe in this theology as well. And I may be wrong, but the confession aspect of confessing that Jesus is Lord is confessing the fact that he is the messiah, his deityship, and every biblical aspect about who Jesus is? Remember in acts 8:34-38 the Ethiopian?, When he asks Philip what is preventing me from being baptized Philip Said "you must believe" then the Ethiopian said I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, then Philip Baptized him? The Ethiopian did not say "Jesus is lord" he confessed who he is, he confessed the Lord Jesus. Also in 1 john 4:15 and even 2 John 1:7 we see this as well. So to confess the lord Jesus, could it not mean confessing and believing who he is an all that entails not just saying he is lord? But anyway, I believe in being obedient as far as the Christian is concerned and remaining in the faith. But notice how Lordship salvation demands even the sinner to do something past what the bible requires, "make him lord" .The bible does not say this for initial salvation, it says to simply believe and have faith, the sinner cant do anything to obtain salvation accept believe. Its Saved by grace through faith not saved by making Jesus lord, because the sinner cant make Jesus lord.

[Justaned]

I agree that is why I said this theology is very compatible with Calvinism. Which is why the likes of Paul washer and John MacArthur teach Lordship salvation along with Calvinism. Another thing I have studied on is there are two kinds of LS.,Calvinistic lordship salvation and Arminian LS, So to this, even Pentecostals adhere to it as well and get mistaken for being a Calvinist when in fact they are not, they are Armenian Lordship salvation . What I gave was a general overview of both versions of it.

Good post Rocky. I Fully agree with you from what I am seeing about this teaching thus far.

However, I wouldn't want us to lose site of the fact that part of our salvation is to acknowledge that Jesus is Lord (Rom. 10:9-10). And also:

• Hebrews 5:9
  And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

There is a tendency for us to reaact against a teaching by going to the extreme opposite of it. I think the difference between "Lordship salvation" which contains a nugget of truth mixed with a lie and the true Bible teaching on obedience is that when I am saved I will obey and not that I am obeying in order to earn salvation or in fear that my disobediene means that I am not one of the "elect" as the "P" in TULIP teaches.

Great points brother. Isn't it weird that all false theology has a nugget of truth in it? Its like it has just enough to attract people to it, Satan is very clever in that. And yeah it does have hint of Calvinism, But some how self professing Armenians believe in this theology as well. And I may be wrong, but the confession aspect of confessing that Jesus is Lord is confessing the fact that he is the messiah, his deityship, and every biblical aspect about who Jesus is? Remember in acts 8:34-38 the Ethiopian?, When he asks Philip what is preventing me from being baptized Philip Said "you must believe" then the Ethiopian said I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, then Philip Baptized him? The Ethiopian did not say "Jesus is lord" he confessed who he is, he confessed the Lord Jesus. Also in 1 john 4:15 and even 2 John 1:7 we see this as well. So to confess the lord Jesus, could it not mean confessing and believing who he is an all that entails not just saying he is lord? But anyway, I believe in being obedient as far as the Christian is concerned and remaining in the faith. But notice how Lordship salvation demands even the sinner to do something past what the bible requires, "make him lord" .The bible does not say this for initial salvation, it says to simply believe and have faith, the sinner cant do anything to obtain salvation accept believe. Its Saved by grace through faith not saved by making Jesus lord, because the sinner cant make Jesus lord.

Rocky and you accuse me of double talk????????????????

Right now in this country in many churches there are two or three different views of salvation.

One teaches all we have to do is believe in Jesus Christ.

One teaches we must believe but also do certain things.

One teacher we must believe and in doing so we make Jesus Lord in our life.

Jesus is Lord. That is fact and it goes beyond simply being Messiah or even our Savior. Jesus is Lord and one day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess. At that point Jesus will be everyone's Lord, not that everyone will be saved but everyone even those going to Lake of Fire will know Jesus is LORD!

Today what Christians must decide is who is Lord in their life today. We all know some "Christians" whose lord is wealth, children, possessions, vacations, jobs and the many other things that would distract us from Jesus. We also all know people that Jesus is Lord in their lives as far as the church goes but outside the church they live for whatever. There are also a few rare people who have truly made Jesus Lord of the their lives. They try to stay in obedience to his will, commands, statues, and precepts. They are not always able to but that is their goal. The more they allow Jesus ultimate control in their lives the less likely they are at missing it. It still happens but it occurs at a lesser rate all the time.

So if we step beyond OSAS or perseverance of saints and pass election and all that nonsense it comes down to, does a Christian have the responsibility and should all their effort be put into making Jesus Lord of their lives? And by doing so becoming more like Jesus every day and less like the world they once were. Should they not reach a point that sin really isn't an option, although it still may occur do to emotion or lapse of judgement, but it shouldn't definitely be found in common in them.

Too many in America Christianity believe they can remain spiritually as they were at the point of salvation.
And that is simply not the case. If you truly believe in Jesus changes in you must occur. You must become obedient to His will, His desire for you. You must try to imitate Jesus rather than living status quo. You must reach a point where intentional sin is not a consideration in your life. Not that you can't sin, but that it is no longer consideration of something that can occur in your life. That I believe is Lordship.

[branham1965]

its so wonderful to see the clannishness here dissolved by sweet brotherly love.

haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw ((thats Chick comic book laughing btw)) haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw

[branham1965]

"doin' fine."

cf:the Simpson's Halloween special on the Shining

its so wonderful to see the clannishness here dissolved by sweet brotherly love.

haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw ((thats Chick comic book laughing btw)) haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw haw

[Rocky]

I agree that is why I said this theology is very compatible with Calvinism. Which is why the likes of Paul washer and John MacArthur teach Lordship salvation along with Calvinism. Another thing I have studied on is there are two kinds of LS.,Calvinistic lordship salvation and Arminian LS, So to this, even Pentecostals adhere to it as well and get mistaken for being a Calvinist when in fact they are not, they are Armenian Lordship salvation . What I gave was a general overview of both versions of it.

Good post Rocky. I Fully agree with you from what I am seeing about this teaching thus far.

However, I wouldn't want us to lose site of the fact that part of our salvation is to acknowledge that Jesus is Lord (Rom. 10:9-10). And also:

• Hebrews 5:9
  And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

There is a tendency for us to reaact against a teaching by going to the extreme opposite of it. I think the difference between "Lordship salvation" which contains a nugget of truth mixed with a lie and the true Bible teaching on obedience is that when I am saved I will obey and not that I am obeying in order to earn salvation or in fear that my disobediene means that I am not one of the "elect" as the "P" in TULIP teaches.

Great points brother. Isn't it weird that all false theology has a nugget of truth in it? Its like it has just enough to attract people to it, Satan is very clever in that. And yeah it does have hint of Calvinism, But some how self professing Armenians believe in this theology as well. And I may be wrong, but the confession aspect of confessing that Jesus is Lord is confessing the fact that he is the messiah, his deityship, and every biblical aspect about who Jesus is? Remember in acts 8:34-38 the Ethiopian?, When he asks Philip what is preventing me from being baptized Philip Said "you must believe" then the Ethiopian said I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, then Philip Baptized him? The Ethiopian did not say "Jesus is lord" he confessed who he is, he confessed the Lord Jesus. Also in 1 john 4:15 and even 2 John 1:7 we see this as well. So to confess the lord Jesus, could it not mean confessing and believing who he is an all that entails not just saying he is lord? But anyway, I believe in being obedient as far as the Christian is concerned and remaining in the faith. But notice how Lordship salvation demands even the sinner to do something past what the bible requires, "make him lord" .The bible does not say this for initial salvation, it says to simply believe and have faith, the sinner cant do anything to obtain salvation accept believe. Its Saved by grace through faith not saved by making Jesus lord, because the sinner cant make Jesus lord.

Rocky and you accuse me of double talk????????????????

Right now in this country in many churches there are two or three different views of salvation.

One teaches all we have to do is believe in Jesus Christ.

One teaches we must believe but also do certain things.

One teacher we must believe and in doing so we make Jesus Lord in our life.

Jesus is Lord. That is fact and it goes beyond simply being Messiah or even our Savior. Jesus is Lord and one day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess. At that point Jesus will be everyone's Lord, not that everyone will be saved but everyone even those going to Lake of Fire will know Jesus is LORD!

Today what Christians must decide is who is Lord in their life today. We all know some "Christians" whose lord is wealth, children, possessions, vacations, jobs and the many other things that would distract us from Jesus. We also all know people that Jesus is Lord in their lives as far as the church goes but outside the church they live for whatever. There are also a few rare people who have truly made Jesus Lord of the their lives. They try to stay in obedience to his will, commands, statues, and precepts. They are not always able to but that is their goal. The more they allow Jesus ultimate control in their lives the less likely they are at missing it. It still happens but it occurs at a lesser rate all the time.

So if we step beyond OSAS or perseverance of saints and pass election and all that nonsense it comes down to, does a Christian have the responsibility and should all their effort be put into making Jesus Lord of their lives? And by doing so becoming more like Jesus every day and less like the world they once were. Should they not reach a point that sin really isn't an option, although it still may occur do to emotion or lapse of judgement, but it shouldn't definitely be found in common in them.

Too many in America Christianity believe they can remain spiritually as they were at the point of salvation.
And that is simply not the case. If you truly believe in Jesus changes in you must occur. You must become obedient to His will, His desire for you. You must try to imitate Jesus rather than living status quo. You must reach a point where intentional sin is not a consideration in your life. Not that you can't sin, but that it is no longer consideration of something that can occur in your life. That I believe is Lordship.

Double talk? show me were I double talked and show me were I was unbiblical. Oh and how much effort is required to make Jesus lord and how is this attained exactly? How much has to be done to make this happen? To what degree is this done, do you have one clear definition how this is done?. I believe we are are saved by grace through faith, do you believe that as well? How do you give Jesus "ultimate control" as you say? What about when we are using the Bathroom? taking a shower? working? Taking care of our Kids? eating? being intimate with our spouses? playing basket? Living day to day? To me you seem to be making God a hard task master. To me it seems like you are saying that we have to earn our salvation with this theology that you are into.. If I wanted this I could find it in Islam. Is Jesus some deity with a whip, controlling his believers? Is he a slave driver? Maybe you are off on your vies of God. From what I have read from your replies, Your view of God sounds like a distant deity that only wants to controls and beat people into submission. Religion got to love it lol

[Justaned]

I agree that is why I said this theology is very compatible with Calvinism. Which is why the likes of Paul washer and John MacArthur teach Lordship salvation along with Calvinism. Another thing I have studied on is there are two kinds of LS.,Calvinistic lordship salvation and Arminian LS, So to this, even Pentecostals adhere to it as well and get mistaken for being a Calvinist when in fact they are not, they are Armenian Lordship salvation . What I gave was a general overview of both versions of it.

Good post Rocky. I Fully agree with you from what I am seeing about this teaching thus far.

However, I wouldn't want us to lose site of the fact that part of our salvation is to acknowledge that Jesus is Lord (Rom. 10:9-10). And also:

• Hebrews 5:9
  And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

There is a tendency for us to reaact against a teaching by going to the extreme opposite of it. I think the difference between "Lordship salvation" which contains a nugget of truth mixed with a lie and the true Bible teaching on obedience is that when I am saved I will obey and not that I am obeying in order to earn salvation or in fear that my disobediene means that I am not one of the "elect" as the "P" in TULIP teaches.

Great points brother. Isn't it weird that all false theology has a nugget of truth in it? Its like it has just enough to attract people to it, Satan is very clever in that. And yeah it does have hint of Calvinism, But some how self professing Armenians believe in this theology as well. And I may be wrong, but the confession aspect of confessing that Jesus is Lord is confessing the fact that he is the messiah, his deityship, and every biblical aspect about who Jesus is? Remember in acts 8:34-38 the Ethiopian?, When he asks Philip what is preventing me from being baptized Philip Said "you must believe" then the Ethiopian said I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, then Philip Baptized him? The Ethiopian did not say "Jesus is lord" he confessed who he is, he confessed the Lord Jesus. Also in 1 john 4:15 and even 2 John 1:7 we see this as well. So to confess the lord Jesus, could it not mean confessing and believing who he is an all that entails not just saying he is lord? But anyway, I believe in being obedient as far as the Christian is concerned and remaining in the faith. But notice how Lordship salvation demands even the sinner to do something past what the bible requires, "make him lord" .The bible does not say this for initial salvation, it says to simply believe and have faith, the sinner cant do anything to obtain salvation accept believe. Its Saved by grace through faith not saved by making Jesus lord, because the sinner cant make Jesus lord.

Rocky and you accuse me of double talk????????????????

Right now in this country in many churches there are two or three different views of salvation.

One teaches all we have to do is believe in Jesus Christ.

One teaches we must believe but also do certain things.

One teacher we must believe and in doing so we make Jesus Lord in our life.

Jesus is Lord. That is fact and it goes beyond simply being Messiah or even our Savior. Jesus is Lord and one day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess. At that point Jesus will be everyone's Lord, not that everyone will be saved but everyone even those going to Lake of Fire will know Jesus is LORD!

Today what Christians must decide is who is Lord in their life today. We all know some "Christians" whose lord is wealth, children, possessions, vacations, jobs and the many other things that would distract us from Jesus. We also all know people that Jesus is Lord in their lives as far as the church goes but outside the church they live for whatever. There are also a few rare people who have truly made Jesus Lord of the their lives. They try to stay in obedience to his will, commands, statues, and precepts. They are not always able to but that is their goal. The more they allow Jesus ultimate control in their lives the less likely they are at missing it. It still happens but it occurs at a lesser rate all the time.

So if we step beyond OSAS or perseverance of saints and pass election and all that nonsense it comes down to, does a Christian have the responsibility and should all their effort be put into making Jesus Lord of their lives? And by doing so becoming more like Jesus every day and less like the world they once were. Should they not reach a point that sin really isn't an option, although it still may occur do to emotion or lapse of judgement, but it shouldn't definitely be found in common in them.

Too many in America Christianity believe they can remain spiritually as they were at the point of salvation.
And that is simply not the case. If you truly believe in Jesus changes in you must occur. You must become obedient to His will, His desire for you. You must try to imitate Jesus rather than living status quo. You must reach a point where intentional sin is not a consideration in your life. Not that you can't sin, but that it is no longer consideration of something that can occur in your life. That I believe is Lordship.

Double talk? show me were I double talked and show me were I was unbiblical. Oh and how much effort is required to make Jesus lord and how is this attained exactly? Is it done by chanting? living in a monastery? How much has to be done to make this happen? to what degree is this done, do you have one clear definition how this is done?. I believe we are are saved by grace through faith, do you believe that as well? How do you give Jesus "ultimate control? What about when we are using the Bathroom? taking a shower? working? Taking care of our Kids? eating? being intimate with our spouses? playing basket? Living day to day? To me you seem to be making God a hard task master. To me it seems like you are saying tha we have to earn our salvation with this theology that you are into.. I could find this in Islam, is Jesus some deity with a whip and controlling his believers?

Man what set you off. I added a little smiley face I thought you said when you do that you are just jesting around??????

Rocky
How do you make Jesus Lord of you life? First you need to be in relationship where you hear and converse with Jesus.
Until you get to that point you need to do a mental check on everything you do. Asking yourself would I do this if I could physically see Jesus watching me? From what I know about Jesus will this be pleasing in His sight. Would doing this make Jesus proud of me or would he shake His head in sadness?

I don't see Jesus as a taskmaster at all. I see Jesus as someone that promised to be closer than a friend. How do you get taskmaster out of what I said? I never said a thing about earning our salvation. I'm talking about walking in salvation. We either aspire to be like Jesus or we can expect to hear depart I never knew you. Just saying you believe in Jesus is not enough you have to put that into action in your life, how you live, how you talk, how you relate to others.

[Rocky]

I agree that is why I said this theology is very compatible with Calvinism. Which is why the likes of Paul washer and John MacArthur teach Lordship salvation along with Calvinism. Another thing I have studied on is there are two kinds of LS.,Calvinistic lordship salvation and Arminian LS, So to this, even Pentecostals adhere to it as well and get mistaken for being a Calvinist when in fact they are not, they are Armenian Lordship salvation . What I gave was a general overview of both versions of it.

Good post Rocky. I Fully agree with you from what I am seeing about this teaching thus far.

However, I wouldn't want us to lose site of the fact that part of our salvation is to acknowledge that Jesus is Lord (Rom. 10:9-10). And also:

• Hebrews 5:9
  And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

There is a tendency for us to reaact against a teaching by going to the extreme opposite of it. I think the difference between "Lordship salvation" which contains a nugget of truth mixed with a lie and the true Bible teaching on obedience is that when I am saved I will obey and not that I am obeying in order to earn salvation or in fear that my disobediene means that I am not one of the "elect" as the "P" in TULIP teaches.

Great points brother. Isn't it weird that all false theology has a nugget of truth in it? Its like it has just enough to attract people to it, Satan is very clever in that. And yeah it does have hint of Calvinism, But some how self professing Armenians believe in this theology as well. And I may be wrong, but the confession aspect of confessing that Jesus is Lord is confessing the fact that he is the messiah, his deityship, and every biblical aspect about who Jesus is? Remember in acts 8:34-38 the Ethiopian?, When he asks Philip what is preventing me from being baptized Philip Said "you must believe" then the Ethiopian said I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, then Philip Baptized him? The Ethiopian did not say "Jesus is lord" he confessed who he is, he confessed the Lord Jesus. Also in 1 john 4:15 and even 2 John 1:7 we see this as well. So to confess the lord Jesus, could it not mean confessing and believing who he is an all that entails not just saying he is lord? But anyway, I believe in being obedient as far as the Christian is concerned and remaining in the faith. But notice how Lordship salvation demands even the sinner to do something past what the bible requires, "make him lord" .The bible does not say this for initial salvation, it says to simply believe and have faith, the sinner cant do anything to obtain salvation accept believe. Its Saved by grace through faith not saved by making Jesus lord, because the sinner cant make Jesus lord.

Rocky and you accuse me of double talk????????????????

Right now in this country in many churches there are two or three different views of salvation.

One teaches all we have to do is believe in Jesus Christ.

One teaches we must believe but also do certain things.

One teacher we must believe and in doing so we make Jesus Lord in our life.

Jesus is Lord. That is fact and it goes beyond simply being Messiah or even our Savior. Jesus is Lord and one day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess. At that point Jesus will be everyone's Lord, not that everyone will be saved but everyone even those going to Lake of Fire will know Jesus is LORD!

Today what Christians must decide is who is Lord in their life today. We all know some "Christians" whose lord is wealth, children, possessions, vacations, jobs and the many other things that would distract us from Jesus. We also all know people that Jesus is Lord in their lives as far as the church goes but outside the church they live for whatever. There are also a few rare people who have truly made Jesus Lord of the their lives. They try to stay in obedience to his will, commands, statues, and precepts. They are not always able to but that is their goal. The more they allow Jesus ultimate control in their lives the less likely they are at missing it. It still happens but it occurs at a lesser rate all the time.

So if we step beyond OSAS or perseverance of saints and pass election and all that nonsense it comes down to, does a Christian have the responsibility and should all their effort be put into making Jesus Lord of their lives? And by doing so becoming more like Jesus every day and less like the world they once were. Should they not reach a point that sin really isn't an option, although it still may occur do to emotion or lapse of judgement, but it shouldn't definitely be found in common in them.

Too many in America Christianity believe they can remain spiritually as they were at the point of salvation.
And that is simply not the case. If you truly believe in Jesus changes in you must occur. You must become obedient to His will, His desire for you. You must try to imitate Jesus rather than living status quo. You must reach a point where intentional sin is not a consideration in your life. Not that you can't sin, but that it is no longer consideration of something that can occur in your life. That I believe is Lordship.

Double talk? show me were I double talked and show me were I was unbiblical. Oh and how much effort is required to make Jesus lord and how is this attained exactly? Is it done by chanting? living in a monastery? How much has to be done to make this happen? to what degree is this done, do you have one clear definition how this is done?. I believe we are are saved by grace through faith, do you believe that as well? How do you give Jesus "ultimate control? What about when we are using the Bathroom? taking a shower? working? Taking care of our Kids? eating? being intimate with our spouses? playing basket? Living day to day? To me you seem to be making God a hard task master. To me it seems like you are saying tha we have to earn our salvation with this theology that you are into.. I could find this in Islam, is Jesus some deity with a whip and controlling his believers?

Man what set you off. I added a little smiley face I thought you said when you do that you are just jesting around??????

Rocky
How do you make Jesus Lord of you life? First you need to be in relationship where you hear and converse with Jesus.
Until you get to that point you need to do a mental check on everything you do. Asking yourself would I do this if I could physically see Jesus watching me? From what I know about Jesus will this be pleasing in His sight. Would doing this make Jesus proud of me or would he shake His head in sadness?

I don't see Jesus as a taskmaster at all. I see Jesus as someone that promised to be closer than a friend. How do you get taskmaster out of what I said? I never said a thing about earning our salvation. I'm talking about walking in salvation. We either aspire to be like Jesus or we can expect to hear depart I never knew you. Just saying you believe in Jesus is not enough you have to put that into action in your life, how you live, how you talk, how you relate to others.

Ok How does a unbeliever do all that? Do you believe we are saved by grace through faith? And yes it did set me off, not because you were joking about me double talking, but because I believe what you are saying is impossible, you seem to be mixing salvation with some kind of law.. Remember I am talking about Salvation as it pertains to initial conversion not the Christian. Lordship salvation is mainly a soteriological theology.

[Justaned]

I agree that is why I said this theology is very compatible with Calvinism. Which is why the likes of Paul washer and John MacArthur teach Lordship salvation along with Calvinism. Another thing I have studied on is there are two kinds of LS.,Calvinistic lordship salvation and Arminian LS, So to this, even Pentecostals adhere to it as well and get mistaken for being a Calvinist when in fact they are not, they are Armenian Lordship salvation . What I gave was a general overview of both versions of it.

Good post Rocky. I Fully agree with you from what I am seeing about this teaching thus far.

However, I wouldn't want us to lose site of the fact that part of our salvation is to acknowledge that Jesus is Lord (Rom. 10:9-10). And also:

• Hebrews 5:9
  And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

There is a tendency for us to reaact against a teaching by going to the extreme opposite of it. I think the difference between "Lordship salvation" which contains a nugget of truth mixed with a lie and the true Bible teaching on obedience is that when I am saved I will obey and not that I am obeying in order to earn salvation or in fear that my disobediene means that I am not one of the "elect" as the "P" in TULIP teaches.

Great points brother. Isn't it weird that all false theology has a nugget of truth in it? Its like it has just enough to attract people to it, Satan is very clever in that. And yeah it does have hint of Calvinism, But some how self professing Armenians believe in this theology as well. And I may be wrong, but the confession aspect of confessing that Jesus is Lord is confessing the fact that he is the messiah, his deityship, and every biblical aspect about who Jesus is? Remember in acts 8:34-38 the Ethiopian?, When he asks Philip what is preventing me from being baptized Philip Said "you must believe" then the Ethiopian said I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, then Philip Baptized him? The Ethiopian did not say "Jesus is lord" he confessed who he is, he confessed the Lord Jesus. Also in 1 john 4:15 and even 2 John 1:7 we see this as well. So to confess the lord Jesus, could it not mean confessing and believing who he is an all that entails not just saying he is lord? But anyway, I believe in being obedient as far as the Christian is concerned and remaining in the faith. But notice how Lordship salvation demands even the sinner to do something past what the bible requires, "make him lord" .The bible does not say this for initial salvation, it says to simply believe and have faith, the sinner cant do anything to obtain salvation accept believe. Its Saved by grace through faith not saved by making Jesus lord, because the sinner cant make Jesus lord.

Rocky and you accuse me of double talk????????????????

Right now in this country in many churches there are two or three different views of salvation.

One teaches all we have to do is believe in Jesus Christ.

One teaches we must believe but also do certain things.

One teacher we must believe and in doing so we make Jesus Lord in our life.

Jesus is Lord. That is fact and it goes beyond simply being Messiah or even our Savior. Jesus is Lord and one day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess. At that point Jesus will be everyone's Lord, not that everyone will be saved but everyone even those going to Lake of Fire will know Jesus is LORD!

Today what Christians must decide is who is Lord in their life today. We all know some "Christians" whose lord is wealth, children, possessions, vacations, jobs and the many other things that would distract us from Jesus. We also all know people that Jesus is Lord in their lives as far as the church goes but outside the church they live for whatever. There are also a few rare people who have truly made Jesus Lord of the their lives. They try to stay in obedience to his will, commands, statues, and precepts. They are not always able to but that is their goal. The more they allow Jesus ultimate control in their lives the less likely they are at missing it. It still happens but it occurs at a lesser rate all the time.

So if we step beyond OSAS or perseverance of saints and pass election and all that nonsense it comes down to, does a Christian have the responsibility and should all their effort be put into making Jesus Lord of their lives? And by doing so becoming more like Jesus every day and less like the world they once were. Should they not reach a point that sin really isn't an option, although it still may occur do to emotion or lapse of judgement, but it shouldn't definitely be found in common in them.

Too many in America Christianity believe they can remain spiritually as they were at the point of salvation.
And that is simply not the case. If you truly believe in Jesus changes in you must occur. You must become obedient to His will, His desire for you. You must try to imitate Jesus rather than living status quo. You must reach a point where intentional sin is not a consideration in your life. Not that you can't sin, but that it is no longer consideration of something that can occur in your life. That I believe is Lordship.

Double talk? show me were I double talked and show me were I was unbiblical. Oh and how much effort is required to make Jesus lord and how is this attained exactly? Is it done by chanting? living in a monastery? How much has to be done to make this happen? to what degree is this done, do you have one clear definition how this is done?. I believe we are are saved by grace through faith, do you believe that as well? How do you give Jesus "ultimate control? What about when we are using the Bathroom? taking a shower? working? Taking care of our Kids? eating? being intimate with our spouses? playing basket? Living day to day? To me you seem to be making God a hard task master. To me it seems like you are saying tha we have to earn our salvation with this theology that you are into.. I could find this in Islam, is Jesus some deity with a whip and controlling his believers?

Man what set you off. I added a little smiley face I thought you said when you do that you are just jesting around??????

Rocky
How do you make Jesus Lord of you life? First you need to be in relationship where you hear and converse with Jesus.
Until you get to that point you need to do a mental check on everything you do. Asking yourself would I do this if I could physically see Jesus watching me? From what I know about Jesus will this be pleasing in His sight. Would doing this make Jesus proud of me or would he shake His head in sadness?

I don't see Jesus as a taskmaster at all. I see Jesus as someone that promised to be closer than a friend. How do you get taskmaster out of what I said? I never said a thing about earning our salvation. I'm talking about walking in salvation. We either aspire to be like Jesus or we can expect to hear depart I never knew you. Just saying you believe in Jesus is not enough you have to put that into action in your life, how you live, how you talk, how you relate to others.

Ok How does a unbeliever do all that? Do you believe we are saved by grace through faith? And yes it did set me off, not because you were joking about me double talking, but because I believe what you are saying is impossible, you seem to be mixing salvation with some kind of law.. Remember I am talking about Salvation as it pertains to initial conversion not the Christian. Lordship salvation is mainly a soteriological theology.

Rocky what are you talking about?
Lordship as taught by everyone I'm aware of considers it a walk of sanctification. Each step from the first until death brings the believers life into more submission to the Lord Jesus Christ. No one that I'm aware of suggests that this magically occurs in a new believers life upon salvation but is a process that should take place as the believer matures in the Lord. But that it must occur!

This is why I said there needed to be a definition of terms so everyone would be on the same page.