Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Being Born Again - Again!

[branham1965]

Reved
from my heart...i care about you.and i admire your tenacity and elephant hide....this will bug me tonight...im talking to myself... i feel bad about fussin with you and siding against you.
but did you know that
you are driving me bannanas ??

I used to struggle with Dake's teaching on this when I first began reading his books back in the early 90s. But technically speaking the Bible does teach that sin brings forth DEATH and a person can be given back life when they re-connect themselves to the life source, which the BIble also plainly teaches.

So, I suppose the problem all along was mine and not Dake. However, I still have a hard time giving an altar call to ask backsliders to be born again. I often have a seperate altar call for the unsaved (those who have NEVER) given their lives to Christ) and another for those who have walked away from Christ and want to return. While we have prayed the so-called "sinner's prayer" with lots of people over the years, it seems the ones that I have actually been able to keep are those who "backslid".

How do you pastors and evangelists handle these things based on your understanding of Dake's teaching?

Well...

In the Altar call I am not going into doctrine or theology. My purpose is to get people (in what ever state they think they are in saved or backslidden) right with God.

So I usually cal for people who have never been saved... and those who have been saved but have sin in their lives.

Either way, makes no difference ot me at that time - I am just wanting them to make things right with God by confessing their sins and receiving God's forgiveness.

do you ever get he same people coming up week after week?
What is the difference between that that keep coming up week after week and Once Save Always Saved crowd?

Hi Ed,

How would you give the altar call then?

Hmm may be he would say, come up here and get saved unless you have sinned willfully because you cant come back to the lord if you did

As I have said many times in the past if someone still worried about salvation they have not passed the point of no return. When a person no longer cares they have passed the point.

[brodave]

Where in the Bible does it say a sinner who wants to repent can't come back. What is the point of no return for a repentant sinner. Dr. Dake's teaching on Heb. 6:6 is that the person Apostates, someone who no longer has faith (believes) A backslider that repents is the same as a sinner that comes to Gods the first time. Repent and believe. Esau never stopped being a son he lost his birthright. I'm not teaching OSAS. If you sin and don't repent your going to hell. If you sin or backslide and repent and believe you will be saved.

[branham1965]

I AGREE with you brodave.
i dont understand what he is saying.
i have not read that in commentaries or Study Bibles.
he said a bit back that he no longer believes in Dad Hagin's Vision on this the sin unto death.
im upset and grieved because i have fought with this daily for near 26 years.

Where in the Bible does it say a sinner who wants to repent can't come back. What is the point of no return for a repentant sinner. Dr. Dake's teaching on Heb. 6:6 is that the person Apostates, someone who no longer has faith (believes) A backslider that repents is the same as a sinner that comes to Gods the first time. Repent and believe. Esau never stopped being a son he lost his birthright. I'm not teaching OSAS. If you sin and don't repent your going to hell. If you sin or backslide and repent and believe you will be saved.

[Rocky]

I can believe a lot of people may have the reality of hell realized in their life and thus desire to avoid hell but they have no desire for Christ all they want is fire insurance, as the saying goes.

Hi Ed I am not sure I like your "Fire Insurance statements" Even the bible disagrees. That statement is cliché, it comes from Lordship salvation adherents, So if someone backslides they can say they where not saved in the first place. And is not really biblical to say
"And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."

[Justaned]

I can believe a lot of people may have the reality of hell realized in their life and thus desire to avoid hell but they have no desire for Christ all they want is fire insurance, as the saying goes.

Hi Ed I am not sure I like your "Fire Insurance statements" Even the bible disagrees. That statement is cliché, it comes from Lordship salvation adherents, So if someone backslides they can say they where not saved in the first place. And is not really biblical to say
"And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."

Rocky
You love generalizations, you make me a MacAruthurite when I say thus and such and then a Lordshipite when say this or that. I am neither.
Do you disagree that there are people that don't want to go to eternal damnation but also don't want to surrender their lives to the Lord? Look around you can see a ton of them if you look.
Rocky first off I have on more than one occasion said there is no way this side of heaven who any of us to say with certainty that someone is saved or not.
Second all of us sin even the finest Christians sin. But there is a difference in sin. One sin can be wrought of emotion, of fear, anger, omission and the other is deliberate intentional and rebellious.
My statement is I don't believe a true Christian will commit deliberate, intentional, and rebellious sin. I don't see how if they really in fact made Jesus Lord of the their life. The idea would never come up much less be acted upon.

I believe many people like the idea of spending eternity in heaven, staying out of the Lake of Fire so they want to avoid that, but not enough that they are willing to lay down their life and surrender their will to Jesus Christ. They still demand their rights, they are the ones that seek revenge against those they don't like, they are the one that harbor hatred and anger. Can they sin willfully and deliberately yes Jesus is not Lord in their lives.

Are there people that consider themselves to be Christians that have never given their life to Christ? Are they Christians at that point? No! We aren't talking about sin in their life, we are only saying they never established a lasting relationship with Jesus. They are in the flesh. and probably have been all their life. From this point on they are for all intents and purposes not Christians although they call themselves Christians. Can they repent and come to Christ scripture says yes.

Then there are those that are Christians, people that have Jesus as Lord of their life and scripture says they willfully and deliberately sin. Can the be saved? Scripture says no.

[Rocky]

I can believe a lot of people may have the reality of hell realized in their life and thus desire to avoid hell but they have no desire for Christ all they want is fire insurance, as the saying goes.

Hi Ed I am not sure I like your "Fire Insurance statements" Even the bible disagrees. That statement is cliché, it comes from Lordship salvation adherents, So if someone backslides they can say they where not saved in the first place. And is not really biblical to say
"And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."

Rocky
You love generalizations, you make me a MacAruthurite when I say thus and such and then a Lordshipite when say this or that. I am neither.
Do you disagree that there are people that don't want to go to eternal damnation but also don't want to surrender their lives to the Lord? Look around you can see a ton of them if you look.
Rocky first off I have on more than one occasion said there is no way this side of heaven who any of us to say with certainty that someone is saved or not.
Second all of us sin even the finest Christians sin. But there is a difference in sin. One sin can be wrought of emotion, of fear, anger, omission and the other is deliberate intentional and rebellious.
My statement is I don't believe a true Christian will commit deliberate, intentional, and rebellious sin. I don't see how if they really in fact made Jesus Lord of the their life. The idea would never come up much less be acted upon.

I believe many people like the idea of spending eternity in heaven, staying out of the Lake of Fire so they want to avoid that, but not enough that they are willing to lay down their life and surrender their will to Jesus Christ. They still demand their rights, they are the ones that seek revenge against those they don't like, they are the one that harbor hatred and anger. Can they sin willfully and deliberately yes Jesus is not Lord in their lives.

Are there people that consider themselves to be Christians that have never given their life to Christ? Are they Christians at that point? No! We aren't talking about sin in their life, we are only saying they never established a lasting relationship with Jesus. They are in the flesh. and probably have been all their life. From this point on they are for all intents and purposes not Christians although they call themselves Christians. Can they repent and come to Christ scripture says yes.

Then there are those that are Christians, people that have Jesus as Lord of their life and scripture says they willfully and deliberately sin. Can the be saved? Scripture says no.

First of all how can a person make Jesus the Lord of their life if the are not saved? Scripture says we are saved by grace through Faith Not saved by making Jesus the lord of their life. You are making grace into a Work before the person even gets saved? Why not just admit to the theology you are adhering to? You are filtering the bible through a Lordship salvation theology am I right? You are putting obstacles in front of the unbeliever that he or she is incapable of fulfilling with this Paul Washer , MacArther type of stuff. You are confusing sanctification with justification. Again I ask How much surrender is required? How long is this surrender to last? How much fruit must this surrender produce? I believe you need to back up this theology with scripture. Give me one scripture that states the unbeliever or the backslider is saved by making Jesus lord of their life?