Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Does this sound like once saved always saved to you?

[Justaned]

Obviously a church that believes being born again into a new Creation and grafted into the vine with Jesus living in us means more than being a Christian one day and not the next and then being a Christian the next and not the day after.

That same Jesus said:

• “I am the vine. You are the branches. If anyone remains joined to me, and I to him, he will bear a lot of fruit. You can’t do anything without me. If anyone does not remain joined to me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and dries up. Branches like those are picked up. They are thrown into the fire and burned. (John 15:5-6; New International Reader's Version)

A person who is grafted into the vine must REMAIN IN THE VINE.

Never said we couldn't break our relationship with Christ. What I don't believe is that sin takes us in and out like a yo yo.

[victoryword]

Never said we couldn't break our relationship with Christ. What I don't believe is that sin takes us in and out like a yo yo.

Yes, but you don't think that [unrepentant] sin is the thing that breaks the relationship?

[Rocky]

Just read this as a church belief on a churches website.

About Salvation
We believe that the blood of Jesus Christ, shed on the cross, provides the sole basis for the forgiveness of sin. Therefore, God freely offers salvation to those who place their faith in the death and resurrection of Christ as sufficient payment for their sin. Salvation is a life changing moment that can't ever be reversed or undone.

That last line made me laugh out loud.

If you don't want to go to Heaven you just better not get saved - because once you do - like it or not YOU are going to Heaven. Think about all the dope heads, fornicators, prostitutes, liars, murderers, homosexuals, greed filled people, etc. that they claim will be in Heaven. So stupid it almost makes me throw-up!

That is about as anti-Biblical as anything I have ever read that could have been typed by supposedly sane people.

Wow that's insane. What kind of church was this?

Obviously a church that believes being born again into a new Creation and grafted into the vine with Jesus living in us means more than being a Christian one day and not the next and then being a Christian the next and not the day after.
Ever wonder if Jesus gets tired moving in and out every few minutes.
Do you really think Jesus moves in and says I wonder how long I will get to stay this time. Oh there he goes using God's name in vain I'm out of here oh wait he said he is sorry I'm back.
Do you really believe that???????????

Ed, Did you actually read that? Here it is again in case you missed it
Salvation is a life changing moment that can't ever be reversed or undone.
Were in the bible does it even state such a thing? Do you know that is a OSAS statement?

[Justaned]

Never said we couldn't break our relationship with Christ. What I don't believe is that sin takes us in and out like a yo yo.

Yes, but you don't think that [unrepentant] sin is the thing that breaks the relationship?

Willful sin break breaks the relationship from which Hebrews says there is no recovery.

[Justaned]

Just read this as a church belief on a churches website.

About Salvation
We believe that the blood of Jesus Christ, shed on the cross, provides the sole basis for the forgiveness of sin. Therefore, God freely offers salvation to those who place their faith in the death and resurrection of Christ as sufficient payment for their sin. Salvation is a life changing moment that can't ever be reversed or undone.

That last line made me laugh out loud.

If you don't want to go to Heaven you just better not get saved - because once you do - like it or not YOU are going to Heaven. Think about all the dope heads, fornicators, prostitutes, liars, murderers, homosexuals, greed filled people, etc. that they claim will be in Heaven. So stupid it almost makes me throw-up!

That is about as anti-Biblical as anything I have ever read that could have been typed by supposedly sane people.

Wow that's insane. What kind of church was this?

Obviously a church that believes being born again into a new Creation and grafted into the vine with Jesus living in us means more than being a Christian one day and not the next and then being a Christian the next and not the day after.
Ever wonder if Jesus gets tired moving in and out every few minutes.
Do you really think Jesus moves in and says I wonder how long I will get to stay this time. Oh there he goes using God's name in vain I'm out of here oh wait he said he is sorry I'm back.
Do you really believe that???????????

Ed, Did you actually read that? Here it is again in case you missed it
Salvation is a life changing moment that can't ever be reversed or undone.
Were in the bible does it even state such a thing? Do you know that is a OSAS statement?

Can natural birth be reversed then redone and reversed and redone?
Then why do you think the second birth can be done over and over.

I disagree with OSAS because I believe a Christian can lose his or her salvation. I just don't believe it can then ever be regained again. Do you see that mentioned any where in scripture?

[Reuben]

I disagree with OSAS because I believe a Christian can lose his or her salvation. I just don't believe it can then ever be regained again. Do you see that mentioned any where in scripture?

Yes there are Scriptures for that.

Romans 11:23 (KJV)
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Galatians 4:19 (KJV)
19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

James 5:19-20 (KJV)
19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

In James the above - this particular backslider has fallen back into estrangement from God and can be converted again or the words contained here would be meaningless.

These are just a few... goodness their are a plethora of verses attesting to this as these above. Surely you have read them.

[Justaned]

I disagree with OSAS because I believe a Christian can lose his or her salvation. I just don't believe it can then ever be regained again. Do you see that mentioned any where in scripture?

Yes there are Scriptures for that.

Romans 11:23 (KJV)
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Galatians 4:19 (KJV)
19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

James 5:19-20 (KJV)
19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

In James the above - this particular backslider has fallen back into estrangement from God and can be converted again or the words contained here would be meaningless.

These are just a few... goodness their are a plethora of verses attesting to this as these above. Surely you have read them.

I discount James 5:19-20 (NLT)
19 My dear brothers and sisters, if someone among you wanders away from the truth and is brought back,
20 you can be sure that whoever brings the sinner back will save that person from death and bring about the forgiveness of many sins.

I don't see this as willful sin but sin committed unintentionally that for one reason or another the sinner is not seeing as sin. It seems to be more of discussion of what is the truth of the situation rather than being a willful sin that is committed. Don't you think?

I don't think Galatians is saying what you suppose. Here is another translations view of which I agree
Galatians 4:19 (NLT)
19 Oh, my dear children! I feel as if I’m going through labor pains for you again, and they will continue until Christ is fully developed in your lives.

That leaves us the Romans 11:23
Which I think is really talking of unbelief in Jesus as the Messiah
Romans 11:23 (NLT)
23 And if the people of Israel turn from their unbelief, they will be grafted in again, for God has the power to graft them back into the tree.

Not in a sinner being born again.

[Reuben]

Galatians 1:6 (KJV)
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

The Galatians were deserting and leaving Christ for another perverted gospel.

Galatians 3:1 (KJV)
1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

They no longer were obeying the Truth.

Galatians 5:4 (KJV)
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Galatians 5:7 (KJV)
7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

So, here again, the Galatians were saved but now were fallen from Grace and needed to be reformed again.

[Reuben]

Romans 11:22-23 (KJV)
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

He lays down the conditions that are so obvious here. "If" you continue... but if you don't you will be cut off. However, if like they, you do not remain in unbelief, you can also be grafted in again. Very clear clear here.

[Justaned]

Romans 11:22-23 (KJV)
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

He lays down the conditions that are so obvious here. "If" you continue... but if you don't you will be cut off. However, if like they, you do not remain in unbelief, you can also be grafted in again. Very clear clear here.

Again this is addressing the Jew's unbelief that Jesus is the Messiah. While the results are the same and we may view it as sin, it is different than being saved and then committing a willful sin.