Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Baptizing Homosexuals

[branham1965]

im glad im not a Preacher.i wouldnt know how to handle that.

[bibleman]

Part of what make this situation unique Is that these two women have adopted children together. They have a "civil union" and believe they are born again. Do they repent and break up their "family" and do visitation...? This is a legal civil union. I want to be able to offer them the truth of the Word and help them recover their life if they are willing to repent and live holy lives unto the Lord. My wife shared with them that I want to visit with then concerning their request. We told them they were welcome at Vertical Church but we wanted to sit down and talk to them about why they want to be baptized. We feel it's so they can ease their conscious if a "minister" will approve their preference of lifestyle by baptizing them in water and be able to pin it on us. We are smarter than that, we just want to protect our body of believers at the same time from any legal issues If they ever come about. I don't think it would because so far two other churches rejected their request. They don't seem like they have an agenda against the church, they just want to feel accepted. They were raised Baptist so they don't understand why they can't be accepted and involved just because they are lesbians. Anyway, there's some more info for you all to ponder on. :)

Hi Pastor,

Their soul is worth more than any circumstance of life they may face.

If they think they are born again then they are deceived by the devil.

1 Corinthians 6:9 (AMP) 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality,

Ten Classes Not to be Saved:
1. Fornicators (the immoral, 1 Cor. 6:9)
2. Idolaters (false worshipers, 1 Cor. 6:9)
3. Adulterers (the unfaithful, 1 Cor. 6:9)
4. Effeminate (catamites, 1 Cor. 6:9)
5. Abusers of themselves with mankind (sodomites, homosexuals, pederasts, lesbians (1 Cor. 6:9)
6. Thieves (robbers, 1 Cor. 6:10)
7. Covetous (the lustful, 1 Cor. 6:10)
8. Drunkards (drinkers of intoxicants)
9. Revilers (abusers of others, 1 Cor. 6:10)
10. Extortioners (those who obtain by violence or threats, 1 Cor. 6:10)
Finis J. Dake, Dake Topical Index, WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "Saved, Ten Classes Not to be".

Love them, welcome them to church, but DON"T condone their sinful lifestyle.

In fact, I would offer to do a individual Bible study with them on the abomination of the homosexual lifestyle according to the Bible. Much like I would do for the drunkard, adulterer and gossipers that abound.

Love them and speak the truth in love!

[Michael Evans]

Thank you Spirit Blade for the warm welcome.
Re the two women: the situation is somewhat more complicated if they are in a Civil Union with a child and believe they are born again yet have no problem living the way they are.
Seeking legal advice is a good idea. I have a friend from my Bible College days, Miho, whose husband- David Wiedis (of PA) specializes in legal assistance for ministries and churches. Avoiding litigation is always a good idea, but the time may be coming ("and now is") when this will be unavoidable if we take a stand for the Word. Preaching 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 may be classified as "hate speech" by some lawmakers in these last days we are living in and I believe we are to obey the law UNLESS it means compromising the clearly stated Word of God. I have heard of European pastors being jailed for declaring homosexual behaviour a sin. We may be heading into that territory in America and Australia as Same-Sex Marriage becomes legal. Legislators can do what they like, it won't change the Word of God and what He calls a marital covenant. If I was threatened with jail for refusing to baptize a practicing homosexual (or adulterer, fornicator etc), I'd go to jail rather than offend God and bring shame upon the gospel.
Not long after I was saved, I led a work colleague to Jesus who had been raised a Catholic. Soon after this she moved in with her boyfriend. I said nothing to her. After a few weeks she told me that she woke up one morning and stated to her boyfriend (an unsaved man) "I can't live like this". He soon left her and as far as I know she is still walking with the Lord. If a "baby Christian" can come to this place of conviction and repentance after just a few weeks of practicing sin, I am skeptical as to the salvation of these women, who can apparently keep doing what they are doing and attend church/seek water baptism etc. If they had been saved years ago and were backslidden, I tend to think they would have been water baptized years ago too. Some people pray a prayer of salvation from their hearts and change inwardly (I sensed an immediate change within me back in '81), others just "say a prayer". God alone knows where these women are at, but I would approach this from the angle "Have you truly made Jesus Lord of your lives and if so, is His Word final in your lives?" The test of this would be to take them through passages dealing with sexual acts which scripture classifies as sin. Some like to argue "but Jesus never directly talked about this issue". Well, He mentioned the destruction of Sodom and talked about "fornications" proceeding from the hearts of unsaved people. The word used covers all manner of unclean sex outside of the marriage covenant. I think their response would soon indicate if Jesus is Lord or not in their lives.
The passage in 1 Cor is good because Paul by the Spirit ends by saying "and such WERE some of you". Corinth was a licentious town and the church erred in tolerating an unrepentant fornicator in their midst (who only repented when cast out of the church), yet many in the congregation were walking free of former lifestyles earmarked by sex sins such as homosexuality. It is sad that in many states of the USA it is now illegal to attempt to "change" someone's sexual orientation. The lie that people are "born that way" has been widely embraced. I believe the Word and the power of God will set anyone free of any bondage to sin.Any work of the flesh-if yielded to- will open a doorway to the wrong spirit. If these women can be brought to conviction and either make a re-commitment or be born again for the first time, then understanding our authority as believers and learning how to walk in the spirit (and keep their former nature in subjection to the Holy Spirit and the Word of God) will bring them to manifested freedom.Living apart would be mandatory and understanding how to receive forgiveness and restoration should they struggle and fall while getting free would also be needful for them. At present they are blinded by the enemy and need intercession and the ministry of the Word to break through that bondage. Their free wills are involved though. If they are offended at the concept of no longer living in this relationship and remain convinced that they are walking with the Lord regardless, then for the well being of the church I would ask them to go but say the doors are open should they wish to return and follow godly counsel. I would still pray for them either way, particularly the Ephesians prayers for revelation and understanding.The child would also be in need of prayer being raised in that kind of spiritual environment. They are the innocent victims in these scenarios. Movies like "The Kids Are All Right" are terrible propaganda for the lies of these last days.

[pastor stroup]

I appreciate everyone in here and thank you for your advice and wisdom- all of you! Your scriptural and legal advice is appreciated. And the videos were great. And thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt realizing that I wasn't asking about this in ignorance or foolishness. I pray that we all stay humble before one another and remember that we are all on the same team. Maybe I could've clarified the point of my asking was to receive from your wisdom or maybe because some of you had dealt with this already. I guess it was a new thought and I didn't realize that. Please forgive me for not being as clear as I could've been. Love you brothers!

[Reuben]

Jumping in here really late... However, as a minister we are God's representatives in the baptismal experience. Therefore, if I baptize a sinner, then I have given God's approval of their lifestyle and have misrepresented God in doing so.

Just a little tidbit on the late side

[branham1965]

wonderful seeing you Reverend.

Jumping in here really late... However, as a minister we are God's representatives in the baptismal experience. Therefore, if I baptize a sinner, then I have given God's approval of their lifestyle and have misrepresented God in doing so.

Just a little tidbit on the late side

[Reuben]

wonderful seeing you Reverend.

Jumping in here really late... However, as a minister we are God's representatives in the baptismal experience. Therefore, if I baptize a sinner, then I have given God's approval of their lifestyle and have misrepresented God in doing so.

Just a little tidbit on the late side

Thank you ole friend!!