Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ The Gospel of Inclusion and OSAS - the same thing?

[branham1965]

I WAS REFERRING TO A FEW EARLY PENTECOSTAL PIONEERS.
IN FACT...NEVERMIND...IMWORN OUT FRIED UP...
KENYON WAS NOT PENTECOSTAL.HE ONCE FELL FOR SOUL SLEEP.HE LATER RECANTED.
KENYON'S STORY WAS WRITTEN BY THE GUY WHO HEADS UP HIS MINISTRY THERE IN WASHINGTON STATE.PASTOR JOE MCINTYRE WROTE A BOOK DEFENDING KENYON.I HAD IT IN THE 1990'S.amazon.
DAD HAGIN LIKED HIM SO HOW COULD HE BE A HERETIC.
BUT I REMEMBER BLOCKHEADS AT MY CHURCH BADMOUTHING DAD HAGIN AND DAVID INGLES.AND PRAISING KENYON.AS THOUGH KENNETH HAGIN SR. NEVER KNEW ANYTHING UNTIL KENYON.
I WAS A TEENAGER AND I KNEW THEY WERE DUMBELLS.I NEVER SAID A WORD.
DAD HAGIN TELLS ABOUT HOW HE HEARD OF DR.KENYON.HE SAID IM GLAD HES PREACHING LIKE I DO.I KNOW IVE GOT THE TRUTH. HE =DAD KNEW HE WAS GOD CALLED GOD ANOINTED.HE DID NOT NEED ANYONES BOOKS TO VINDICATE HIM.

ACTUALLY HE WAS A RANK HERETIC AND MISLED MILLIONS.AND THE LORD SAYS TO HATE EVERY FALSE WAY.
THE PIONEERS REPENTED AND GOT SQUARED AWAY.

IM BEING HONEST.REAL.

DID YOU KNOW MANY I MEAN MANY OF OUR FATHERS IN PENTECOST FROM WILLIAM SEYMOUR TO CHARLES PARHAM WERE INFLUENCED BY THIS MAN!!!????

DR.KENYON WAS ONCE A BELIEVER IN HIS TEACHING.SOUL SLEEP.

Are you saying that Kenyon was a rank heretic Billy?

[victoryword]

Are you saying that Kenyon was a rank heretic Billy?

I don't know if he was a heretic but his teaching was heretical. He was up to his eyes in the metaphysical where things do or don't exist until you speak them into or out of existence. He was a false Bishop having a poor reputation and divorcing his wife. He taught he was healed because he said he was healed yet he died in a coma from brain cancer.
I can't think of one thing he taught that was true. I think the constitute false teaching does it not?

Well Ed, I would probably classify you as a false teacher since I don't believe anything you teach, but then again, we're talking about Kenyon and not you so I apologize.

Anyway, it seems you have bit deep into the poison fruit of D. R. McConnell who made the false claims about Kenyon and whose research was discredited by his own student partner, Dr. Dale Simmons. Dr. Simmons was riding along with McConnell on the "Kenyon was into the metaphysiocal cults" bandwagon for a while until his research uncovered a lot of evidence that Kenyon was actually influenced by Holiness, Faith-Cure, and Higher-Life advocates. Dr. Simmons, who is not Word-Faith, I would even venture to say that he is pretty much anti-wof like yourself, saw Kenyon more in the realm of Evangelicalism of his time. Robert Bowman in his anti-wof book, "The Word-Faith Controversy" also affirms this.

While both men have their issues with present-day faith teaching, they do not see the connection of Kenyon to the metaphysical cults that slanderes such as McConnell and Hanegraaf after him claimed. I am afraid that the facts are not on your side and that you have been influenced by slanderous attacks. I would ask God for forgiveness if I were you Ed. He will forgive you for falsely slandering His servant Kenyon if you ask Him sincerely.

[Justaned]

Are you saying that Kenyon was a rank heretic Billy?

I don't know if he was a heretic but his teaching was heretical. He was up to his eyes in the metaphysical where things do or don't exist until you speak them into or out of existence. He was a false Bishop having a poor reputation and divorcing his wife. He taught he was healed because he said he was healed yet he died in a coma from brain cancer.
I can't think of one thing he taught that was true. I think the constitute false teaching does it not?

Well Ed, I would probably classify you as a false teacher since I don't believe anything you teach, but then again, we're talking about Kenyon and not you so I apologize.

Anyway, it seems you have bit deep into the poison fruit of D. R. McConnell who made the false claims about Kenyon and whose research was discredited by his own student partner, Dr. Dale Simmons. Dr. Simmons was riding along with McConnell on the "Kenyon was into the metaphysiocal cults" bandwagon for a while until his research uncovered a lot of evidence that Kenyon was actually influenced by Holiness, Faith-Cure, and Higher-Life advocates. Dr. Simmons, who is not Word-Faith, I would even venture to say that he is pretty much anti-wof like yourself, saw Kenyon more in the realm of Evangelicalism of his time. Robert Bowman in his anti-wof book, "The Word-Faith Controversy" also affirms this.

While both men have their issues with present-day faith teaching, they do not see the connection of Kenyon to the metaphysical cults that slanderes such as McConnell and Hanegraaf after him claimed. I am afraid that the facts are not on your side and that you have been influenced by slanderous attacks. I would ask God for forgiveness if I were you Ed. He will forgive you for falsely slandering His servant Kenyon if you ask Him sincerely.

Actually I wasn't slandering Kenyon I reporting the fact as I know them. Nor was I quoting McConnell so your advice will go unheeded as being ill devised.

If you don't like what I said fine but don't confuse the idea that we speak things into and out of existence as being biblical and that is what Kenyon taught.

As far as not believing me that is probably a good idea. I never asked you to. I ask you to do the research yourself don't just read a pro kenyon book or an anti kenyon book go see what he was teaching and compare it, not what someone else said he was teaching but compare what Kenyon himself taught and see if it is Biblical.

Now if you are going to take a snippet of scripture here and snippet there and pasted them together and declare you have sound doctrine don't bother I have heard all that my whole life. However I doubt you will do it correctly since you have already demonstrated how fond you are of seizing upon the promises made to others and calling them yours.

And oh yes learn how Kenyon died.

Sticking with Bibleman's rules of forum behavior I will not address you calling me a false prophet.
But it will be interesting to see if Bibleman acts upon his rules with you.

[bibleman]

Are you saying that Kenyon was a rank heretic Billy?

I don't know if he was a heretic but his teaching was heretical. He was up to his eyes in the metaphysical where things do or don't exist until you speak them into or out of existence. He was a false Bishop having a poor reputation and divorcing his wife. He taught he was healed because he said he was healed yet he died in a coma from brain cancer.
I can't think of one thing he taught that was true. I think the constitute false teaching does it not?

Well Ed, I would probably classify you as a false teacher since I don't believe anything you teach, but then again, we're talking about Kenyon and not you so I apologize.

Anyway, it seems you have bit deep into the poison fruit of D. R. McConnell who made the false claims about Kenyon and whose research was discredited by his own student partner, Dr. Dale Simmons. Dr. Simmons was riding along with McConnell on the "Kenyon was into the metaphysiocal cults" bandwagon for a while until his research uncovered a lot of evidence that Kenyon was actually influenced by Holiness, Faith-Cure, and Higher-Life advocates. Dr. Simmons, who is not Word-Faith, I would even venture to say that he is pretty much anti-wof like yourself, saw Kenyon more in the realm of Evangelicalism of his time. Robert Bowman in his anti-wof book, "The Word-Faith Controversy" also affirms this.

While both men have their issues with present-day faith teaching, they do not see the connection of Kenyon to the metaphysical cults that slanderes such as McConnell and Hanegraaf after him claimed. I am afraid that the facts are not on your side and that you have been influenced by slanderous attacks. I would ask God for forgiveness if I were you Ed. He will forgive you for falsely slandering His servant Kenyon if you ask Him sincerely.

Actually I wasn't slandering Kenyon I reporting the fact as I know them. Nor was I quoting McConnell so your advice will go unheeded as being ill devised.

If you don't like what I said fine but don't confuse the idea that we speak things into and out of existence as being biblical and that is what Kenyon taught.

As far as not believing me that is probably a good idea. I never asked you to. I ask you to do the research yourself don't just read a pro kenyon book or an anti kenyon book go see what he was teaching and compare it, not what someone else said he was teaching but compare what Kenyon himself taught and see if it is Biblical.

Now if you are going to take a snippet of scripture here and snippet there and pasted them together and declare you have sound doctrine don't bother I have heard all that my whole life. However I doubt you will do it correctly since you have already demonstrated how fond you are of seizing upon the promises made to others and calling them yours.

And oh yes learn how Kenyon died.

Sticking with Bibleman's rules of forum behavior I will not address you calling me a false prophet.
But it will be interesting to see if Bibleman acts upon his rules with you.

Hi Ed,

Above you said: "Actually I wasn't slandering Kenyon I reporting the fact as I know them."

Where do you get your facts from, so that we may read them as well.

thanks

[victoryword]

Yes Ed, as Pastor Bible said, please tell us where we can find these "facts" if it is not from the authors I referenced in my post. I take it from your reply to me that you have first-hand knowledge and evidence that the rest of us mere mortals are lacking.

[Justaned]

Are you saying that Kenyon was a rank heretic Billy?

I don't know if he was a heretic but his teaching was heretical. He was up to his eyes in the metaphysical where things do or don't exist until you speak them into or out of existence. He was a false Bishop having a poor reputation and divorcing his wife. He taught he was healed because he said he was healed yet he died in a coma from brain cancer.
I can't think of one thing he taught that was true. I think the constitute false teaching does it not?

Well Ed, I would probably classify you as a false teacher since I don't believe anything you teach, but then again, we're talking about Kenyon and not you so I apologize.

Anyway, it seems you have bit deep into the poison fruit of D. R. McConnell who made the false claims about Kenyon and whose research was discredited by his own student partner, Dr. Dale Simmons. Dr. Simmons was riding along with McConnell on the "Kenyon was into the metaphysiocal cults" bandwagon for a while until his research uncovered a lot of evidence that Kenyon was actually influenced by Holiness, Faith-Cure, and Higher-Life advocates. Dr. Simmons, who is not Word-Faith, I would even venture to say that he is pretty much anti-wof like yourself, saw Kenyon more in the realm of Evangelicalism of his time. Robert Bowman in his anti-wof book, "The Word-Faith Controversy" also affirms this.

While both men have their issues with present-day faith teaching, they do not see the connection of Kenyon to the metaphysical cults that slanderes such as McConnell and Hanegraaf after him claimed. I am afraid that the facts are not on your side and that you have been influenced by slanderous attacks. I would ask God for forgiveness if I were you Ed. He will forgive you for falsely slandering His servant Kenyon if you ask Him sincerely.

Actually I wasn't slandering Kenyon I reporting the fact as I know them. Nor was I quoting McConnell so your advice will go unheeded as being ill devised.

If you don't like what I said fine but don't confuse the idea that we speak things into and out of existence as being biblical and that is what Kenyon taught.

As far as not believing me that is probably a good idea. I never asked you to. I ask you to do the research yourself don't just read a pro kenyon book or an anti kenyon book go see what he was teaching and compare it, not what someone else said he was teaching but compare what Kenyon himself taught and see if it is Biblical.

Now if you are going to take a snippet of scripture here and snippet there and pasted them together and declare you have sound doctrine don't bother I have heard all that my whole life. However I doubt you will do it correctly since you have already demonstrated how fond you are of seizing upon the promises made to others and calling them yours.

And oh yes learn how Kenyon died.

Sticking with Bibleman's rules of forum behavior I will not address you calling me a false prophet.
But it will be interesting to see if Bibleman acts upon his rules with you.

Hi Ed,

Above you said: "Actually I wasn't slandering Kenyon I reporting the fact as I know them."

Where do you get your facts from, so that we may read them as well.

thanks

Studying his books do you want me to list them or can you get a list yourself?

[Justaned]

Yes Ed, as Pastor Bible said, please tell us where we can find these "facts" if it is not from the authors I referenced in my post. I take it from your reply to me that you have first-hand knowledge and evidence that the rest of us mere mortals are lacking.

Simply read his books if you can't see his theology in them then I would say he did a lousy job in writing wouldn't you.

[victoryword]

Yes Ed, as Pastor Bible said, please tell us where we can find these "facts" if it is not from the authors I referenced in my post. I take it from your reply to me that you have first-hand knowledge and evidence that the rest of us mere mortals are lacking.

Simply read his books if you can't see his theology in them then I would say he did a lousy job in writing wouldn't you.

The problem is Ed is that I have read his books and see most of his theology as Biblical and not much different than what I have read from other classical stalwarts like F. B. Meyer, Andrew Murray and others. Actually I see a lot of similarity between EW Kenyon and SD Gordon, the man who wrote a bunch of books called "Quiet Talks...." Sad that Gordon's books are not that well known but they are great.

I disagree with Kenyon on his OSAS and some of his statements about Jesus becoming sin and going to hell (though I attribute him taking extreme views from Martin Luther and John Calvin and putting them in his own words). However, most of what I have read by him was Biblical and should be read by all of the church.

Finally, in his writings, Kenyon verbally denigrated the metaphysical cults. Yet confused heresy hunters seem to twist that to say that he was hiding his sympathy for them. The proof? They have none. I am sure that you will disagree, but since you have provided no proof so far, well, I guess we will have to place your disagreement at the same level.

[branham1965]

have you read Pastor Joe Mcintyres book defending Dr.Kenyon????he helps runs the ministry there now.or did.

Yes Ed, as Pastor Bible said, please tell us where we can find these "facts" if it is not from the authors I referenced in my post. I take it from your reply to me that you have first-hand knowledge and evidence that the rest of us mere mortals are lacking.

Simply read his books if you can't see his theology in them then I would say he did a lousy job in writing wouldn't you.

The problem is Ed is that I have read his books and see most of his theology as Biblical and not much different than what I have read from other classical stalwarts like F. B. Meyer, Andrew Murray and others. Actually I see a lot of similarity between EW Kenyon and SD Gordon, the man who wrote a bunch of books called "Quiet Talks...." Sad that Gordon's books are not that well known but they are great.

I disagree with Kenyon on his OSAS and some of his statements about Jesus becoming sin and going to hell (though I attribute him taking extreme views from Martin Luther and John Calvin and putting them in his own words). However, most of what I have read by him was Biblical and should be read by all of the church.

Finally, in his writings, Kenyon verbally denigrated the metaphysical cults. Yet confused heresy hunters seem to twist that to say that he was hiding his sympathy for them. The proof? They have none. I am sure that you will disagree, but since you have provided no proof so far, well, I guess we will have to place your disagreement at the same level.

[victoryword]

have you read Pastor Joe Mcintyres book defending Dr.Kenyon????he helps runs the ministry there now.or did.

Yes, Joe McIntyre's book is one of the best out there. William DeArteaga also defends Kenyon in his book "Quenching the Spirit" which is also a great book. McIntyre is still running the Kenyon ministry and is doing a great job of it. He is a very nice man and an excellent Bible teacher. If you ever get a chance, visit his church's web page and download some of his messages.