Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ The passage all liberals hate!

[Rocky]

Ed Wrote:
Again my question why does God knowing the choice man will make effect man's free will ability to make that choice?
Man's faith and obedience can still be seen in the choice.

You keep saying foreknowledge is not free will. And I'm asking why? If God does nothing to effect man's decision and man makes that decision of his own free will how did God knowing what decision man would make effect the process?

Because it is an oxymoron so to speak. Hmm I have a free choice but it is already set in stone what I will do. Why not just ask
God what I will do and do that, and it really does not matter what I do because it is already known and set in stone what I will do any way, so why try why even ask God to move in any thing, I mean why even pray? Its already known and set in stone. lol. Ed you have not been through much have you? And, Because according to you it is already set in stone of what people will do, like it is already written, hence the choice has been made for us by foreknowledge, it is predestined in a sense. How is that a free choice if it is already set in stone what I will do?, that is almost predestination. Another thing I have noticed is that when you are shown plain scripture about God limiting himself in his foreknowledge in dealing with the free will in times of testing, you just say it is a "figure of speech", or you twist it or manipulate it somehow and say "yes, you gave scripture but thats not what it means" even though the subject matter is clear and concise. Its seems you have a tendency to over spiritualize the literal meaning of the scriptures that they are conveying about this. Ed The bible has shown God being surprised, sorry, and not knowing ahead of time of mans actions. Even physically going down and seeing things for him self, God even has angels to report to him. If you are right then you must rip those scripture out of the bible or say its an allegory or a "figure of speech." When this is pointed out to you, you say it was a figure of speech. This is a dangerous way to interpret the bible in my opinion because this is how false ideas get started. What else can we say is a figure of speech to twist the scriptures? I just find it easier to take the bible for what it says.

The thing you miss Rocky is your don't know what you will do until you are faced with the decision. That is when the rubber hits the road. You can say you will do this or that but until you have to make the decision you simply don't know.

Let us say God would simple tell you, you would not believe it. You would say, that's what you say but you don't know." If God gave you proof you would still deny the truthfulness of the proof. The only way you will ever know what you will do is after you have been confronted with the choice and made it.

This is where God shows His love for us he allows us to fall and is there to help us up. God is preparing us to take our place in heaven. It requires us to learn about ourselves and to make the decisions to either grow and get better or to simply enjoy life's pleasures and remain as babes.

God tested Abraham for Abraham's sake and for ours. Otherwise people would always question Abraham's faith. In fact some still do by saying Abraham knew God would stop him and etc.

If God wanted perfect people God could have just created them. What God wants is people that became people of God through their own choices.

Think about it how many tell kids they will be addicted if they take drugs. Every addiction unless it was done to them was done because they thought they could handle it, they were above addiction and there it no way they would let themselves get that low. They had to see for themselves.

The testing is for us God already knows the mettle we are made of.

I understand, But a lot of what you said here is not what is shown in the bible, Unless you say it is a "figure of speech". This seems more of an opinion then what is actually show in scripture. That's what myself and others have tried to show you. Maybe study this in a DARB or GPFM to gain a better understanding of this. So again, I agree with the bible and Dake on this, Dake gives countless scriptures on this teaching and that cannot be denied unless again you say it is a "figure of speech" the bible never says its a figure of speech..

Oh, and You said:
"The testing is for us God already knows the mettle we are made of"
If that were the case Why did not God tell Abraham, "now you know" instead of "now I know"?

Rocky
God clearly declares Himself all knowing. We call it omniscience. Now that is declared throughout scripture in many many places. So it is fact God is all knowing. He even knows your heart, when a sparrow falls to the ground and the number of hairs on your head. So the extent of His knowledge is not just the important things but all things.

Now if God know all things and then says he has come to see. Is God saying he didn't know and needed to come and see or is He explaining His presence before Abraham to demonstrate his mercy but didn't want to reveal that to Abraham?

Of course you will say it is because God didn't know but God has already declared he did know. If he knows man's heart he knew the status of every heart in Sodom. So your interpretation while a literal rendering of scripture does not make any sense. So we either have a conflict or we say no God was using a figure of speech. That is the only options.

Now if we want to invent theology and say God limits Himself sometimes we can explain it that way but nothing in scripture reveals God ever limiting himself. Jesus limited Himself to become a man but never God.

Again if God limited Himself for the citizens of Sodom then why not for everyone? Yet God says He sees the heart of man.

Do you see your interpretation produces conflict and contradiction. Mine make all scripture reconcile with all of scripture.

Hi Ed,

Above you said: "Do you see your interpretation produces conflict and contradiction. Mine make all scripture reconcile with all of scripture."

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

Ed, Ed,, Ed,,, Rocky has spent a lot of time giving Scripture after Scripture - yet you have not heard his counsel. You instead think you are the only one that is right.

Think of it. According to you Rocky is wrong! VictoryWord is Wrong! I am wrong! Ironman is Wrong! Macca is wrong!

You have refused all of this wise counsel even to the point of saying God did NOT say what He said and eve God is wrong in your eyes!

Don't you think it is time that you give up your man-made ideas and LISTEN TO COUNSEL?

I would aslo like to add that I think Ed has tendency to over spiritualize the literal meaning of the scriptures that are being conveyed about this. That is the first thing I noticed about the way he views scripture. A lot of Christian do this, I use to as well.

And Ed,
Here is some statements that you just made that proves my point about this brotherman.

So your interpretation, while a literal rendering of scripture, does not make any sense

And there is the difference Of how we approach scripture and this is why your understanding is clouded a lot of Christian have this issue.

Do you see your interpretation produces conflict and contradiction. Mine make all scripture reconcile with all of scripture

Ed the conflict is because you refuse to take scripture for what is says for whatever reason. It seems you always try to find some hidden meaning or sometimes even manipulate the meaning to fit what you want it to mean.

And Ed my brotha, this statement is very inaccurate

Now if we want to invent theology and say God limits Himself sometimes we can explain it that way but nothing in scripture reveals God ever limiting himself. Jesus limited Himself to become a man but never God.

Do not lay a hand on the boy,” he said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son from me.”

Who is inventing theology here? According to what you are claiming it should have read "now you know" instead of "now I know." Now I am no English professor or major but when someone says "now I know", that means it was not known beforehand. Oh let me guess its a figure of speech. You have this preconceived notion about this and apparently you disagree with the bible and also what Dake taught about this simple truth.
Why you gots to make errythang so complicated boo, yes I called you boo, cause you my boo
Again study this in a DARB and GPFM . Do you have either brother? If you do, read and study it again and you will see that your understanding is off.

[Justaned]

Ed Wrote:
Again my question why does God knowing the choice man will make effect man's free will ability to make that choice?
Man's faith and obedience can still be seen in the choice.

You keep saying foreknowledge is not free will. And I'm asking why? If God does nothing to effect man's decision and man makes that decision of his own free will how did God knowing what decision man would make effect the process?

Because it is an oxymoron so to speak. Hmm I have a free choice but it is already set in stone what I will do. Why not just ask
God what I will do and do that, and it really does not matter what I do because it is already known and set in stone what I will do any way, so why try why even ask God to move in any thing, I mean why even pray? Its already known and set in stone. lol. Ed you have not been through much have you? And, Because according to you it is already set in stone of what people will do, like it is already written, hence the choice has been made for us by foreknowledge, it is predestined in a sense. How is that a free choice if it is already set in stone what I will do?, that is almost predestination. Another thing I have noticed is that when you are shown plain scripture about God limiting himself in his foreknowledge in dealing with the free will in times of testing, you just say it is a "figure of speech", or you twist it or manipulate it somehow and say "yes, you gave scripture but thats not what it means" even though the subject matter is clear and concise. Its seems you have a tendency to over spiritualize the literal meaning of the scriptures that they are conveying about this. Ed The bible has shown God being surprised, sorry, and not knowing ahead of time of mans actions. Even physically going down and seeing things for him self, God even has angels to report to him. If you are right then you must rip those scripture out of the bible or say its an allegory or a "figure of speech." When this is pointed out to you, you say it was a figure of speech. This is a dangerous way to interpret the bible in my opinion because this is how false ideas get started. What else can we say is a figure of speech to twist the scriptures? I just find it easier to take the bible for what it says.

The thing you miss Rocky is your don't know what you will do until you are faced with the decision. That is when the rubber hits the road. You can say you will do this or that but until you have to make the decision you simply don't know.

Let us say God would simple tell you, you would not believe it. You would say, that's what you say but you don't know." If God gave you proof you would still deny the truthfulness of the proof. The only way you will ever know what you will do is after you have been confronted with the choice and made it.

This is where God shows His love for us he allows us to fall and is there to help us up. God is preparing us to take our place in heaven. It requires us to learn about ourselves and to make the decisions to either grow and get better or to simply enjoy life's pleasures and remain as babes.

God tested Abraham for Abraham's sake and for ours. Otherwise people would always question Abraham's faith. In fact some still do by saying Abraham knew God would stop him and etc.

If God wanted perfect people God could have just created them. What God wants is people that became people of God through their own choices.

Think about it how many tell kids they will be addicted if they take drugs. Every addiction unless it was done to them was done because they thought they could handle it, they were above addiction and there it no way they would let themselves get that low. They had to see for themselves.

The testing is for us God already knows the mettle we are made of.

I understand, But a lot of what you said here is not what is shown in the bible, Unless you say it is a "figure of speech". This seems more of an opinion then what is actually show in scripture. That's what myself and others have tried to show you. Maybe study this in a DARB or GPFM to gain a better understanding of this. So again, I agree with the bible and Dake on this, Dake gives countless scriptures on this teaching and that cannot be denied unless again you say it is a "figure of speech" the bible never says its a figure of speech..

Oh, and You said:
"The testing is for us God already knows the mettle we are made of"
If that were the case Why did not God tell Abraham, "now you know" instead of "now I know"?

Rocky
God clearly declares Himself all knowing. We call it omniscience. Now that is declared throughout scripture in many many places. So it is fact God is all knowing. He even knows your heart, when a sparrow falls to the ground and the number of hairs on your head. So the extent of His knowledge is not just the important things but all things.

Now if God know all things and then says he has come to see. Is God saying he didn't know and needed to come and see or is He explaining His presence before Abraham to demonstrate his mercy but didn't want to reveal that to Abraham?

Of course you will say it is because God didn't know but God has already declared he did know. If he knows man's heart he knew the status of every heart in Sodom. So your interpretation while a literal rendering of scripture does not make any sense. So we either have a conflict or we say no God was using a figure of speech. That is the only options.

Now if we want to invent theology and say God limits Himself sometimes we can explain it that way but nothing in scripture reveals God ever limiting himself. Jesus limited Himself to become a man but never God.

Again if God limited Himself for the citizens of Sodom then why not for everyone? Yet God says He sees the heart of man.

Do you see your interpretation produces conflict and contradiction. Mine make all scripture reconcile with all of scripture.

Hi Ed,

Above you said: "Do you see your interpretation produces conflict and contradiction. Mine make all scripture reconcile with all of scripture."

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

Ed, Ed,, Ed,,, Rocky has spent a lot of time giving Scripture after Scripture - yet you have not heard his counsel. You instead think you are the only one that is right.

Think of it. According to you Rocky is wrong! VictoryWord is Wrong! I am wrong! Ironman is Wrong! Macca is wrong!

You have refused all of this wise counsel even to the point of saying God did NOT say what He said and eve God is wrong in your eyes!

Don't you think it is time that you give up your man-made ideas and LISTEN TO COUNSEL?

I would aslo like to add that I think Ed has tendency to over spiritualize the literal meaning of the scriptures that are being conveyed about this. That is the first thing I noticed about the way he views scripture. A lot of Christian do this, I use to as well.

And Ed,
Here is some statements that you just made that proves my point about this brotherman.

So your interpretation, while a literal rendering of scripture, does not make any sense

And there is the difference Of how we approach scripture and this is why your understanding is clouded a lot of Christian have this issue.

Do you see your interpretation produces conflict and contradiction. Mine make all scripture reconcile with all of scripture

Ed the conflict is because you refuse to take scripture for what is says for whatever reason. It seems you always try to find some hidden meaning or sometimes even manipulate the meaning to fit what you want it to mean.

And Ed my brotha, this statement is very inaccurate

Now if we want to invent theology and say God limits Himself sometimes we can explain it that way but nothing in scripture reveals God ever limiting himself. Jesus limited Himself to become a man but never God.

Do not lay a hand on the boy,” he said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son from me.”

Who is inventing theology here? According to what you are claiming it should have read "now you know" instead of "now I know." Now I am no English professor or major but when someone says "now I know", that means it was not known beforehand. Oh let me guess its a figure of speech. You have this preconceived notion about this and apparently you disagree with the bible and also what Dake taught about this simple truth.
Why you gots to make errythang so complicated boo, yes I called you boo, cause you my boo
Again study this in a DARB and GPFM . Do you have either brother? If you do, read and study it again and you will see that your understanding is off.

God says man looks at the flesh but He God looks at the spirit. When did God stop looking at Abraham's heart so that He God didn't know if Abraham would sacrifice Isaac or not?

Imagine if Abraham had refused, God had already made a solemn and unbreakable covenant to bless him and his family, to give them the land of Israel, to bring the Messiah from his lineage. All of that was made in a unbreakable blood covenant. If Abraham had refused to sacrifice Isaac all of that would have been done to a faithless man. That would have be more than merely embarrassing to God. It would have been totally unfixable. Do you really believe God would put himself in that position knowing the whimsy of man without knowing what the man would do????? Do you really believe he would?

Again I don't disagree with the Bible I disagree with what you call a literal rendering that put God in the position of speaking out of both sides of his mouth. God says he knows everything but you say he doesn't know what decision man will make when offered a choice. That is impossible both can not be right. Yet you say I don't listen to good counsel? Is it good counsel to listen to something that is impossible? I think not.

You gave an example so I will give one God says he sees man's heart. The only way to do that is physically opening the man and looking at his heart or seeing the man's heart spiritually. I think we both agree when God says he sees the heart of man we know he is talking of spiritually seeing it.

Okay now God has two cities full of people but God can't see their heart and must come down to take a look. That is what you say Genesis 18 is saying. My question is when did God lose the ability to see man's heart? Yet you say I refuse good counsel says that is exactly what happened. Is that really good counsel or is it messed up?

Abraham understood what God was saying, notice Abraham didn't say how can you tell me about my future children, about Isaac but you can't tell the evilness of Sodom without coming down to see it? That doesn't make sense God. If you are able to tell me I will have heirs that number like the grains of sand surely you know about Sodom."

Admit it that is exactly what you would think if not say. I know I would.

[Justaned]

Ed Wrote:
Again my question why does God knowing the choice man will make effect man's free will ability to make that choice?
Man's faith and obedience can still be seen in the choice.

You keep saying foreknowledge is not free will. And I'm asking why? If God does nothing to effect man's decision and man makes that decision of his own free will how did God knowing what decision man would make effect the process?

Because it is an oxymoron so to speak. Hmm I have a free choice but it is already set in stone what I will do. Why not just ask
God what I will do and do that, and it really does not matter what I do because it is already known and set in stone what I will do any way, so why try why even ask God to move in any thing, I mean why even pray? Its already known and set in stone. lol. Ed you have not been through much have you? And, Because according to you it is already set in stone of what people will do, like it is already written, hence the choice has been made for us by foreknowledge, it is predestined in a sense. How is that a free choice if it is already set in stone what I will do?, that is almost predestination. Another thing I have noticed is that when you are shown plain scripture about God limiting himself in his foreknowledge in dealing with the free will in times of testing, you just say it is a "figure of speech", or you twist it or manipulate it somehow and say "yes, you gave scripture but thats not what it means" even though the subject matter is clear and concise. Its seems you have a tendency to over spiritualize the literal meaning of the scriptures that they are conveying about this. Ed The bible has shown God being surprised, sorry, and not knowing ahead of time of mans actions. Even physically going down and seeing things for him self, God even has angels to report to him. If you are right then you must rip those scripture out of the bible or say its an allegory or a "figure of speech." When this is pointed out to you, you say it was a figure of speech. This is a dangerous way to interpret the bible in my opinion because this is how false ideas get started. What else can we say is a figure of speech to twist the scriptures? I just find it easier to take the bible for what it says.

The thing you miss Rocky is your don't know what you will do until you are faced with the decision. That is when the rubber hits the road. You can say you will do this or that but until you have to make the decision you simply don't know.

Let us say God would simple tell you, you would not believe it. You would say, that's what you say but you don't know." If God gave you proof you would still deny the truthfulness of the proof. The only way you will ever know what you will do is after you have been confronted with the choice and made it.

This is where God shows His love for us he allows us to fall and is there to help us up. God is preparing us to take our place in heaven. It requires us to learn about ourselves and to make the decisions to either grow and get better or to simply enjoy life's pleasures and remain as babes.

God tested Abraham for Abraham's sake and for ours. Otherwise people would always question Abraham's faith. In fact some still do by saying Abraham knew God would stop him and etc.

If God wanted perfect people God could have just created them. What God wants is people that became people of God through their own choices.

Think about it how many tell kids they will be addicted if they take drugs. Every addiction unless it was done to them was done because they thought they could handle it, they were above addiction and there it no way they would let themselves get that low. They had to see for themselves.

The testing is for us God already knows the mettle we are made of.

I understand, But a lot of what you said here is not what is shown in the bible, Unless you say it is a "figure of speech". This seems more of an opinion then what is actually show in scripture. That's what myself and others have tried to show you. Maybe study this in a DARB or GPFM to gain a better understanding of this. So again, I agree with the bible and Dake on this, Dake gives countless scriptures on this teaching and that cannot be denied unless again you say it is a "figure of speech" the bible never says its a figure of speech..

Oh, and You said:
"The testing is for us God already knows the mettle we are made of"
If that were the case Why did not God tell Abraham, "now you know" instead of "now I know"?

Rocky
God clearly declares Himself all knowing. We call it omniscience. Now that is declared throughout scripture in many many places. So it is fact God is all knowing. He even knows your heart, when a sparrow falls to the ground and the number of hairs on your head. So the extent of His knowledge is not just the important things but all things.

Now if God know all things and then says he has come to see. Is God saying he didn't know and needed to come and see or is He explaining His presence before Abraham to demonstrate his mercy but didn't want to reveal that to Abraham?

Of course you will say it is because God didn't know but God has already declared he did know. If he knows man's heart he knew the status of every heart in Sodom. So your interpretation while a literal rendering of scripture does not make any sense. So we either have a conflict or we say no God was using a figure of speech. That is the only options.

Now if we want to invent theology and say God limits Himself sometimes we can explain it that way but nothing in scripture reveals God ever limiting himself. Jesus limited Himself to become a man but never God.

Again if God limited Himself for the citizens of Sodom then why not for everyone? Yet God says He sees the heart of man.

Do you see your interpretation produces conflict and contradiction. Mine make all scripture reconcile with all of scripture.

Hi Ed,

Above you said: "Do you see your interpretation produces conflict and contradiction. Mine make all scripture reconcile with all of scripture."

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

Ed, Ed,, Ed,,, Rocky has spent a lot of time giving Scripture after Scripture - yet you have not heard his counsel. You instead think you are the only one that is right.

Think of it. According to you Rocky is wrong! VictoryWord is Wrong! I am wrong! Ironman is Wrong! Macca is wrong! Dake is Wrong!

You have refused all of this wise counsel even to the point of saying God did NOT say what He said and even God is wrong in your eyes!

Don't you think it is time that you give up your man-made ideas and LISTEN TO COUNSEL?

I will listen to counsel that makes sense, but when it ends up creating contradictions within scripture I say it doesn't make sense. I know you don't see contradictions you look at the verse and interpret at you want ignoring the rest of scripture. I can't do that. To me each verse is a part of the whole. I have to deal with the whole of scripture before I can reliably interpret a single verse.

I do take counsel in fact I seek counsel but it has to be good counsel, not the kind that produces contradictions in script and poopaws them away by saying yes God can do all this but he limits himself. Limits himself????? In context that doesn't make sense now does it??????

[bibleman]

Ed Wrote:
Again my question why does God knowing the choice man will make effect man's free will ability to make that choice?
Man's faith and obedience can still be seen in the choice.

You keep saying foreknowledge is not free will. And I'm asking why? If God does nothing to effect man's decision and man makes that decision of his own free will how did God knowing what decision man would make effect the process?

Because it is an oxymoron so to speak. Hmm I have a free choice but it is already set in stone what I will do. Why not just ask
God what I will do and do that, and it really does not matter what I do because it is already known and set in stone what I will do any way, so why try why even ask God to move in any thing, I mean why even pray? Its already known and set in stone. lol. Ed you have not been through much have you? And, Because according to you it is already set in stone of what people will do, like it is already written, hence the choice has been made for us by foreknowledge, it is predestined in a sense. How is that a free choice if it is already set in stone what I will do?, that is almost predestination. Another thing I have noticed is that when you are shown plain scripture about God limiting himself in his foreknowledge in dealing with the free will in times of testing, you just say it is a "figure of speech", or you twist it or manipulate it somehow and say "yes, you gave scripture but thats not what it means" even though the subject matter is clear and concise. Its seems you have a tendency to over spiritualize the literal meaning of the scriptures that they are conveying about this. Ed The bible has shown God being surprised, sorry, and not knowing ahead of time of mans actions. Even physically going down and seeing things for him self, God even has angels to report to him. If you are right then you must rip those scripture out of the bible or say its an allegory or a "figure of speech." When this is pointed out to you, you say it was a figure of speech. This is a dangerous way to interpret the bible in my opinion because this is how false ideas get started. What else can we say is a figure of speech to twist the scriptures? I just find it easier to take the bible for what it says.

The thing you miss Rocky is your don't know what you will do until you are faced with the decision. That is when the rubber hits the road. You can say you will do this or that but until you have to make the decision you simply don't know.

Let us say God would simple tell you, you would not believe it. You would say, that's what you say but you don't know." If God gave you proof you would still deny the truthfulness of the proof. The only way you will ever know what you will do is after you have been confronted with the choice and made it.

This is where God shows His love for us he allows us to fall and is there to help us up. God is preparing us to take our place in heaven. It requires us to learn about ourselves and to make the decisions to either grow and get better or to simply enjoy life's pleasures and remain as babes.

God tested Abraham for Abraham's sake and for ours. Otherwise people would always question Abraham's faith. In fact some still do by saying Abraham knew God would stop him and etc.

If God wanted perfect people God could have just created them. What God wants is people that became people of God through their own choices.

Think about it how many tell kids they will be addicted if they take drugs. Every addiction unless it was done to them was done because they thought they could handle it, they were above addiction and there it no way they would let themselves get that low. They had to see for themselves.

The testing is for us God already knows the mettle we are made of.

I understand, But a lot of what you said here is not what is shown in the bible, Unless you say it is a "figure of speech". This seems more of an opinion then what is actually show in scripture. That's what myself and others have tried to show you. Maybe study this in a DARB or GPFM to gain a better understanding of this. So again, I agree with the bible and Dake on this, Dake gives countless scriptures on this teaching and that cannot be denied unless again you say it is a "figure of speech" the bible never says its a figure of speech..

Oh, and You said:
"The testing is for us God already knows the mettle we are made of"
If that were the case Why did not God tell Abraham, "now you know" instead of "now I know"?

Rocky
God clearly declares Himself all knowing. We call it omniscience. Now that is declared throughout scripture in many many places. So it is fact God is all knowing. He even knows your heart, when a sparrow falls to the ground and the number of hairs on your head. So the extent of His knowledge is not just the important things but all things.

Now if God know all things and then says he has come to see. Is God saying he didn't know and needed to come and see or is He explaining His presence before Abraham to demonstrate his mercy but didn't want to reveal that to Abraham?

Of course you will say it is because God didn't know but God has already declared he did know. If he knows man's heart he knew the status of every heart in Sodom. So your interpretation while a literal rendering of scripture does not make any sense. So we either have a conflict or we say no God was using a figure of speech. That is the only options.

Now if we want to invent theology and say God limits Himself sometimes we can explain it that way but nothing in scripture reveals God ever limiting himself. Jesus limited Himself to become a man but never God.

Again if God limited Himself for the citizens of Sodom then why not for everyone? Yet God says He sees the heart of man.

Do you see your interpretation produces conflict and contradiction. Mine make all scripture reconcile with all of scripture.

Hi Ed,

Above you said: "Do you see your interpretation produces conflict and contradiction. Mine make all scripture reconcile with all of scripture."

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

Ed, Ed,, Ed,,, Rocky has spent a lot of time giving Scripture after Scripture - yet you have not heard his counsel. You instead think you are the only one that is right.

Think of it. According to you Rocky is wrong! VictoryWord is Wrong! I am wrong! Ironman is Wrong! Macca is wrong! Dake is Wrong!

You have refused all of this wise counsel even to the point of saying God did NOT say what He said and even God is wrong in your eyes!

Don't you think it is time that you give up your man-made ideas and LISTEN TO COUNSEL?

I will listen to counsel that makes sense, but when it ends up creating contradictions within scripture I say it doesn't make sense. I know you don't see contradictions you look at the verse and interpret at you want ignoring the rest of scripture. I can't do that. To me each verse is a part of the whole. I have to deal with the whole of scripture before I can reliably interpret a single verse.

I do take counsel in fact I seek counsel but it has to be good counsel, not the kind that produces contradictions in script and poopaws them away by saying yes God can do all this but he limits himself. Limits himself????? In context that doesn't make sense now does it??????

Hi Ed,

So are you saying that:

Rocky, VictoryWord, Ironman, Me, Macca and Dake are all wrong?

[Justaned]

Hi Ed,

So are you saying that:

Rocky, VictoryWord, Ironman, Me, Macca and Dake are all wrong?

I'm saying that anyone's interpretation of scripture that produces contradictions with the whole of scripture had the wrong interpretation.

[bibleman]

Hi Ed,

So are you saying that:

Rocky, VictoryWord, Ironman, Me, Macca and Dake are all wrong?

I'm saying that anyone's interpretation of scripture that produces contradictions with the whole of scripture had the wrong interpretation.

Well that would exclude me! Since I don't have an interpretation.

[bibleman]

REVED
James was talking to saved people.

Then who are the sinners mentioned in this verse Billy?

James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

[branham1965]

HE IS TALKING TO YOU AND OTHERS.ME AS WELL.

PAUL TOLD TIMOTHY CHRIST CAME TO SAVE SINNERS OF WHOM I AM CHIEF..NOT WAS AM.

WE ARE UNPROFITABLE SERVANTS.

REVED
James was talking to saved people.

Then who are the sinners mentioned in this verse Billy?

James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

[Rocky]

Hi Ed,

So are you saying that:

Rocky, VictoryWord, Ironman, Me, Macca and Dake are all wrong?

I'm saying that anyone's interpretation of scripture that produces contradictions with the whole of scripture had the wrong interpretation.

There is no contradictions if you just would accept the bible for what it says. You offer no scriptures that refute anything. Ed we all have given the bible. You may just have a fundamentally wrong understanding of omniscience, for further study look in your DARB and GPFM, But this may take humility to let it help you. Again you have not been able to refute this accept by opinions and claiming all the scriptures we have given is a figure of speech. Another thing it seems that your understanding of free moral agency is off as well, this may or may not stem from studying MacArthur's writings, but what ever the case it is off. In GPFM Dake has an awesome teaching about this you should check it out I think it will help. Or you can just wait until you get to heaven to find out

[Ironman]

"I'm saying that anyone's interpretation of scripture that produces contradictions with the whole of scripture had the wrong interpretation."

.

So, Gen. 1:1, In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2, And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

3, ¶ And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4, And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from1 the darkness.
5, And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening2 and the morning were the first day.
6, ¶ And God said, Let there be a firmament3 in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7, And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8, And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9, ¶ And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10, And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11, And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass,4 the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12, And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13, And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14, ¶ And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day5 from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15, And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16, And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day,6 and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17, And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19, And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20, ¶ And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving7 creature that hath life,8 and fowl9 that may fly above the earth in the open10 firmament of heaven.
21, And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22, And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23, And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24, ¶ And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25, And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26, ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27, So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28, And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth11 upon the earth.
29, ¶ And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing12 seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding13 seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30, And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life,14 I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31, ¶ And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
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All the above being said, anyone's interpretation of scripture that produces contradictions with the whole of scripture had the wrong interpretation, and ignoring all the scriptures in the entire Bible regarding Lucifers rebellion, we MUST conclude, according to Justanes method of interpretation that God definitely created the Heavens and the Earth and all therein in 6 literal days?