Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Is God in the "Eternal Now"?

[bibleman]

We also know God travels the universe yet to us what is impossible since the universe is billions of light years across. If God is restrained by time how could he see the ends of the universe yet be here at an one moment to hear our prayers.

Bibleman and Victorywood insists on thinking of God in human terms with human limitations they will not accept that God is not limited as we are, not constrained by time as we are and can move freely about in the dimension of time as we know it.

No Ed, Leon and Troy are thinking of God of what is reveled in scripture. You want people to dismiss certain passages because for what ever reason you don't like it. Man Ed, what do you have against people taking the bible for what it says?

Thanks Rocky,

It is so good to see so many faithful students of the Word on the Board now-a-days.

Other than Ed, Grandfather and Billy... most everyone else believes the Bible.

Sometimes I say so little because you guys are saying so much! GOOD job.

[Ironman]

Thank you for your kind words Leon!

Rocky, I wonder if Justanes god knew in the eternal past, before the creation of the world and before I was even a gleam in my fathers eyes, that one day in the future earthly writers would write a story about a talking horse called Mr. Ed? This miraculous talking horse story was so popular they made a television program about it. It isn't mentioned in revelation anywhere so does that mean it never happened, even though I did see this program here, down under many times?

Ed, 1. Did God know this would happen that men would create a story about a talking horse called Mr. Ed?

. . .2 Was the talking horse called Mr. Ed real?

. . .3 If God knew there would be a talking horse called Mr. ED beforehand, and men would write a story about him and produce a TV show about him, why isn't it mentioned in Revelation seeing God knows and NEEDS TO KNOW EVERYTHING?

A little Aussie humour

I had no idea until I woke up this morning that I was going to post this until I read some of Ed's replies? Did God know even though I never knew, it never even entered into my head until just now?

I know, I'm bad!

[Grandfather]

2. That eternity is made up of time and that time shall not cease?
There is a time and a season for everything done under the sun (Eccl. 3).
God originally made the sun, moon, and stars to regulate times and seasons on the eternal Earth. The work of Day Four was the permanent restoration of the solar system in connection with the restored Earth, to divide the day from the night; and to be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years forever (Gen. 1:14-18).
This solar regulation causing endless time on the Earth is eternal: “They shall fear thee as long as the sun and moon endure, throughout all generations . . . His name shall endure for ever: His name shall be continued as long as the sun” (Ps. 72:5, 17);
“I have sworn unto David my servant, Thy seed will I establish for ever . . . his throne as the days of Heaven . . . as the sun before me. It shall be established for ever as the moon” (Ps. 89:4, 27-37);
“Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night . . . If those ordinances depart from me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease being a nation before me for ever” (Jer. 31:35-36; 33:20-22).
God promised Noah that there would be day and night, summer and winter, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, forever on the Earth (Gen. 8:22).
The Earth is eternal, so time made up of seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, and years is also eternal (Eccl. 1:4; Ps. 104:5).
When the Bible says “time no longer” it should be “delay no longer,” for it speaks of days and years continuing after this (Rev. 10:6-7; 12:6, 14; 13:5; 20:1-7).
When the Bible says “there shall be no night there” it speaks of the city, the New Jerusalem, and not of the Earth outside of the city (Rev. 21:23-27).
Thus, we must conclude that time will continue eternally.
Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 111.

3. That you are in eternity now?
As we have seen above, eternity will be made up of time as we now know it; so if time continues eternally as it is now, in the sense of being in eternal time, we are now in eternity.
We do not mean that we are now in our eternal state, for that will not be true until we enter into immortality (1 Cor. 15:51-58; Phil. 3:20-21).
But we can truly say that we are in time that will be eternal and that we are in part of eternity now.
Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 111.

Hmmm, I might agree with Dake on this. However, there is one thing Dake does not discuss in the above. Will we be restricted by time as we now know it?

[Ironman]

"Hmmm, I might agree with Dake on this. However, there is one thing Dake does not discuss in the above. Will we be restricted by time as we now know it?"

How so? any Scriptures?

[bibleman]

2. That eternity is made up of time and that time shall not cease?
There is a time and a season for everything done under the sun (Eccl. 3).
God originally made the sun, moon, and stars to regulate times and seasons on the eternal Earth. The work of Day Four was the permanent restoration of the solar system in connection with the restored Earth, to divide the day from the night; and to be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years forever (Gen. 1:14-18).
This solar regulation causing endless time on the Earth is eternal: “They shall fear thee as long as the sun and moon endure, throughout all generations . . . His name shall endure for ever: His name shall be continued as long as the sun” (Ps. 72:5, 17);
“I have sworn unto David my servant, Thy seed will I establish for ever . . . his throne as the days of Heaven . . . as the sun before me. It shall be established for ever as the moon” (Ps. 89:4, 27-37);
“Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night . . . If those ordinances depart from me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease being a nation before me for ever” (Jer. 31:35-36; 33:20-22).
God promised Noah that there would be day and night, summer and winter, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, forever on the Earth (Gen. 8:22).
The Earth is eternal, so time made up of seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, and years is also eternal (Eccl. 1:4; Ps. 104:5).
When the Bible says “time no longer” it should be “delay no longer,” for it speaks of days and years continuing after this (Rev. 10:6-7; 12:6, 14; 13:5; 20:1-7).
When the Bible says “there shall be no night there” it speaks of the city, the New Jerusalem, and not of the Earth outside of the city (Rev. 21:23-27).
Thus, we must conclude that time will continue eternally.
Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 111.

3. That you are in eternity now?
As we have seen above, eternity will be made up of time as we now know it; so if time continues eternally as it is now, in the sense of being in eternal time, we are now in eternity.
We do not mean that we are now in our eternal state, for that will not be true until we enter into immortality (1 Cor. 15:51-58; Phil. 3:20-21).
But we can truly say that we are in time that will be eternal and that we are in part of eternity now.
Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 111.

Hmmm, I might agree with Dake on this. However, there is one thing Dake does not discuss in the above. Will we be restricted by time as we now know it?

In a nutshell.

If we are in the resurrection time will have no affect on us. If we work, or live on planet earth then of course we will still have the day and night that is there.

If we are part of the humans that are allowed to live on "new earth" then of course the time of the earth day and night will still affect us but we will nto grow old - we will be just the same as Adam and Eve would have been, had the fall not taken place.

[brodave]

How did Enoch know to name his son Methuselah ( when he dies the flood will come ) 969 years before it happened?
How did God know to tell Abraham his descendants wound be in bondage in Egypt?
What about all the prophecies in the Bible?
What about the book of revelation?
What about Isa. 57:15 God inhabits eternity?

[Justaned]

We also know God travels the universe yet to us what is impossible since the universe is billions of light years across. If God is restrained by time how could he see the ends of the universe yet be here at an one moment to hear our prayers.

Bibleman and Victorywood insists on thinking of God in human terms with human limitations they will not accept that God is not limited as we are, not constrained by time as we are and can move freely about in the dimension of time as we know it.

No Ed, Leon and Troy are thinking of God of what is reveled in scripture. You want people to dismiss certain passages because for what ever reason you don't like it. Man Ed, what do you have against people taking the bible for what it says?

Rocky
Leon victorywood are taking remote scriptures knitting them together to create a picuture of God to their liking, ignoring the fact that it contradicts scripture that is clearly defining traits of God.

[Grandfather]

Hmmm, I might agree with Dake on this. However, there is one thing Dake does not discuss in the above. Will we be restricted by time as we now know it?

In a nutshell.

If we are in the resurrection time will have no affect on us. If we work, or live on planet earth then of course we will still have the day and night that is there.

If we are part of the humans that are allowed to live on "new earth" then of course the time of the earth day and night will still affect us but we will nto grow old - we will be just the same as Adam and Eve would have been, had the fall not taken place.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough. When I said RESTRICT us, I did not mean affect us as in growing old.

For example:
will we be able to go back in time, to revisit special occasions or re-live fond moments, or only bound in the current now.
will we be able to be in different places at the same time, or bound as we are now to one place.
or will time even be as we now experience it, perhaps there is a fullness that we are unaware of due to the fall
If faith can call things that be not.... can we call the future into the present... or call the past back?

I see was Dake referenced more as events that will continue to occur and current we use time as a measurement between events (time --a nonspatial continuum that is measured in terms of events which succeed one another from past through present to future) What he doesn't say is if that dimension of time will control us, of if we can control it, or even if it can be controlled at all.

[Grandfather]

Our dear friends Justaned and the Grandfather are intellectually superior benign overlords, guiding humanity to a brighter tomorrow!

I find it very interesting you would make such a remark, since I have shown that my position on God's omniscient is essentially identical to Dake, who says:

"God limits His own attributes to conform to His plan for free moral agents. This makes Him no less omniscient, but enables Him to respect the will of man. Thus, God does not plan man's choices or acts, but holds him responsible for them."

[bibleman]

Our dear friends Justaned and the Grandfather are intellectually superior benign overlords, guiding humanity to a brighter tomorrow!

I find it very interesting you would make such a remark, since I have shown that my position on God's omniscient is essentially identical to Dake, who says:

"God limits His own attributes to conform to His plan for free moral agents. This makes Him no less omniscient, but enables Him to respect the will of man. Thus, God does not plan man's choices or acts, but holds him responsible for them."

Grandfather,

Your position is NOTHING like Dake's.

Do you have a Dake Bible?