Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Armies in Heaven!

[Justaned]

Again Scripture never says.

Umm I thought Leon just gave scripture Why do you like being in the dark?

Rocky your response speaks volumes about your thought process. Have you read them? Only one mentions Satan and one other mentions demons. None of them say or imply that is the reason or purpose of Satan being.

So the list is nothing more than a very subjective list of what one man suggests are situations caused by Satan even though that is not declared in Scripture, we know there are many other reasons for most of them, then taking the list and presenting it as Satan's purpose. And even creator of the list labels it as God's purpose for allowing Satan to continue. That is not the same as the purpose of Satan.

While the list is interesting I stand on my answer. Scripture never says why God hasn't killed off Satan.

[Rocky]

Ed I just think it is astounding that, as you have claimed, you have studied theology for 30 years or so and are a retired Pastor and you do not understand this, it is shown if we will take the bible as a whole. It seems to me Mr that you are unable to answer the tough questions which is why a lot of educated unbelievers thinks we are a big joke because all we do is say cliché statements and don't study and take the bible as a whole( I know a little rant) God's redemptive plan can be understand . And it does not take thirty years to understand this. Again as you always do you will discredit Dake. Perhaps maybe you should try to learn from him instead of always coming against his teachings. Hmmmm I wonder what what MacArthur believes on this. Most Calvinist believe that the fall and Satan is God's will in that he orchestrated it to show his sovereignty.

[Justaned]

Ed I just think it is astounding that, as you have claimed, you have studied theology for 30 years or so and are a retired Pastor and you do not understand this, it is shown if we will take the bible as a whole. It seems to me Mr that you are unable to answer the tough questions which is why a lot of educated unbelievers thinks we are a big joke because all we do is say cliché statements and don't study and take the bible as a whole( I know a little rant) God's redemptive plan can be understand . And it does not take thirty years to understand this. Again as you always do you will discredit Dake. Perhaps maybe you should try to learn from him instead of always coming against his teachings. Hmmmm I wonder what what MacArthur believes on this. Most Calvinist believe that the fall and Satan is God's will in that he orchestrated it to show his sovereignty.

Rocky
First you offer no rebuttal only personal attacks

"Marx and Engels never tried to refute their opponents with argument. They insulted, ridiculed, derided, slandered, and traduced them, and in the use of these methods their followers are not less expert. Their polemic is directed never against the argument of the opponent, but always against his person."

Second I did not discredit anyone. I simply pointed out that was one man's opinion. That scripture itself did not support that opinion because Scripture is silent on the matter of why God does not simply kill Satan now.

Now we all can speculate and with what we know I don't think the speculation is too far off course but the fact is, it is only speculation. That was my point. My one and only point.

Your problem is you take speculation and elevate it higher than you should. It is not fact and it should not become dogma.

I teach what is fact as fact, I teach what is theory as theory, and I teach what is speculation as speculation. I don't confuse the three nor do I elevate one higher than the others because it fits my theology. That is something you need to learn.

So unless you can produce scripture that tells us why God does not kill Satan at this time don't pretend you have a handle on the answer that you don't have. All we know is that it is not God's timing for the End Times, for Satan to be cast into the Lake of Fire. We don't know why it isn't God's time nor do we know why God couldn't just eliminate Satan now, resurrect him later and toss him into the Lake. Fact we simply don't know because of fact number two scripture does not say.

[Justaned]

It seems to me Mr that you are unable to answer the tough questions which is why a lot of educated unbelievers thinks we are a big joke because all we do is say cliché statements and don't study and take the bible as a whole( I know a little rant) God's redemptive plan can be understand .

Let me address this statement by itself. I never mentioned or addressed God redemptive plan and you are 100% correct it can be seen and understood if we consider the whole Bible. No question!!!!! So don't do there as you having made some point.

Now let us look at this part of your statement.

It seems to me Mr that you are unable to answer the tough questions which is why a lot of educated unbelievers thinks we are a big joke because all we do is say cliché statements ...

A child with limited training could shoot down the answers given for why God does not kill Satan that have been offered so far in this thread. So while some might think they are impressing people with their knowledge any agnostic I have ever debated would shut them up in thirty seconds.

To shut down educated unbelievers you have to supply them clear and concise answers that clearly spelled out in scripture.

And the answers aren't supplied in scripture or if they aren't perfectly clear and concise you are better off to say we accept it by faith. Because no trained agnostic debater goes into a debate without knowing what is clearly stated and what is not.

Satan knows scripture far far far far better than you or I. He knows it so well that he knows where to attack Bible believers the easiest.

I don't advocate the use of cliche but I also don't advocate offering opinion, speculation or conjecture as fact either.

Have you ever talked to a trained Mormom? They know exactly what topics to discuss because they have hunted through the Bible and found statements, situations, events that are never fully defined and that is where they start the discussion. When you finally admit you don't know they open their books and point to logic, very astute sounding answers to those question. The answers may or may not be right we simply don't know but the don't either but they present them as fact. And have deceived many.

Never let anyone present you with facts that are not clearly and concisely substantiated by scripture. If scripture is not clear, state what it says and leave it. Do not try to make opinion, theory, or speculation a fact.

[Rocky]

Leon gave you scripture and because you don't like it you discredit it. You accuse me of following man(Finis Dake) but yet you defend theology that is taught by a man known as John MacArhtr. Ed we give you scripture you discredit it.

[Justaned]

Leon gave you scripture and because you don't like it you discredit it. You accuse me of following man(Finis Dake) but yet you defend theology that is taught by a man known as John MacArhtr. Ed we give you scripture you discredit it.

Rocky
Read those scriptures none says anything about why God does not kill Satan now. In fact only two of them mention anything demonic or about Satan at all.

[Rocky]

Well I would agree with you then we would both be wrong. And these scriptures do show us why, you just don't like it because it does not fit your beliefs. So Ed what is your opinion on why God allowed Satan to continue?

[Justaned]

Well I would agree with you then we would both be wrong. And these scriptures do show us why, you just don't like it because it does not fit your beliefs. So Ed what is your opinion on why God allowed Satan to continue?

I don't know and that is the point no one as far as we know, knows except God Himself.
Those verse talks of calamity, trials and sins and how they effect us but none say this is the purpose of Satan. In fact many calamities, trials and sins are self generated or made.

If we look at the book of Job Satan's purpose becomes even more elusive. In it Satan challenges God and Job as almost a pawn has calamities, heartache, disaster and trial come into his life and scripture says he did not sin. The purpose was not to build character as Job displayed his character when he said though God slay we I will continue to worship him.

Look then to the book of Jonah. If God want to test us, or have us experience trials God is more than able to make it happen without Satan's help. In the story we see bring a storm that threatens to sink the ship so Jonah is thrown overboard to drown. Then God brings a fish to swallow Jonah and save him from drowning but taking him to a land where they skin people alive. After Jonah preaches in the city he is taken to the desert and shaded by a bush. There God wants to teach him compassion so the worm eats the bush. No Satan involved and Johnah is taught many character builders.

Look at Abraham and how God allowed him to experience many many things all without Satan.

If God is able to teach these three without Satan's help Satan is not needed to build character in us.

So those verses don't address the real reason for Satan.

[Rocky]

The fact is I strongly disagree with you and always will on this. Here this may help you Ed .http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywor ... 7jfn2uuc_b

[Justaned]

The fact is I strongly disagree with you and always will on this. Here this may help you Ed .http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywor ... 7jfn2uuc_b

That is your answer? No thought of your own just another man's work. This is a waste of time.
Good bye