Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Who is in control?

[Rocky]

Hello Ed this is not a pick on Ed thread. I believe you are a very smart guy and a man of integrity. I just want to bring these theologies out in the open, and move the Lordship theology thread here because the discussion turned into a free will debate. Here is one of your quotes

If Jesus is in fact Lord in your Life you won't sin. A true Christian will not commit willful sin.
If a Christian willfully sins he did not make Jesus the Lord of his life

Ed these statements of yours falls under at least 2 if not all three of the Calvinistic theologies that I mentioned above, does it Not? So in essence to me you are saying that the Christian is prevented from sinning, hence the free will is striped away, and this is just a flirtation with Reformed theology or in all out love affair with it.

How So? There is absolutely nothing Calvinistic in this except what you are reading into it. Read what I said not what you think I said. I never said or implied an external prevention to sinning as such. I said if a Christian truly has made Jesus Lord of his life he will not sin intentionally or willfully.

What is grinding at you is when I say a true Christian who has made Jesus Lord of their life can't willfully sin.
Why because they don't entertain the idea to begin with.
Again I say when someone willfully sins they never made Jesus Lord of their life. I don't believe they were really saved.

Oh they met all the qualifications for easy believism, in that they believed in Jesus. But the word the Greek word Pisteuo from what we get our word believe means far more than an academic knowledge of Jesus or the acceptance that He lived, was crucified, resurrected, you must become dependent on Jesus. In other words nothing you do is independent to Jesus. You are a follower not leader of Jesus.

Until sin is put out of your life you really aren't saved. You may want to be, you made think you are but if willful and deliberate sin is still a part of your life you are not truly saved.

Ed I am not advocating sin for the hundredth time. I say the Christian can willfully sin and backslide through his own free will. You say this is not the case. And now you are saying that I don't understand holiness because I don't agree with your reformed theology thinking?

All I'm saying is you can't be a true Christian and willfully and deliberately sin. You are either a deliberate sinner or a Christian you can't be both. That is not any theology other than the words of Jesus. You either love Jesus or you hate him.

I stand on the my words.

if a Christian truly has made Jesus Lord of his life he will not sin intentionally or willfully

It can't happen. I also can't help that you don't like that fact. But it is not some odd theology it is the truth of the gospel.

So you believe that a Christian cant sin because God controls the behavior of the Christian? But I thaught you told Leon that man is in control of his decisions? Ed your double talk is showing again.

[Justaned]

Hello Ed this is not a pick on Ed thread. I believe you are a very smart guy and a man of integrity. I just want to bring these theologies out in the open, and move the Lordship theology thread here because the discussion turned into a free will debate. Here is one of your quotes

If Jesus is in fact Lord in your Life you won't sin. A true Christian will not commit willful sin.
If a Christian willfully sins he did not make Jesus the Lord of his life

Ed these statements of yours falls under at least 2 if not all three of the Calvinistic theologies that I mentioned above, does it Not? So in essence to me you are saying that the Christian is prevented from sinning, hence the free will is striped away, and this is just a flirtation with Reformed theology or in all out love affair with it.

How So? There is absolutely nothing Calvinistic in this except what you are reading into it. Read what I said not what you think I said. I never said or implied an external prevention to sinning as such. I said if a Christian truly has made Jesus Lord of his life he will not sin intentionally or willfully.

What is grinding at you is when I say a true Christian who has made Jesus Lord of their life can't willfully sin.
Why because they don't entertain the idea to begin with.
Again I say when someone willfully sins they never made Jesus Lord of their life. I don't believe they were really saved.

Oh they met all the qualifications for easy believism, in that they believed in Jesus. But the word the Greek word Pisteuo from what we get our word believe means far more than an academic knowledge of Jesus or the acceptance that He lived, was crucified, resurrected, you must become dependent on Jesus. In other words nothing you do is independent to Jesus. You are a follower not leader of Jesus.

Until sin is put out of your life you really aren't saved. You may want to be, you made think you are but if willful and deliberate sin is still a part of your life you are not truly saved.

Ed I am not advocating sin for the hundredth time. I say the Christian can willfully sin and backslide through his own free will. You say this is not the case. And now you are saying that I don't understand holiness because I don't agree with your reformed theology thinking?

All I'm saying is you can't be a true Christian and willfully and deliberately sin. You are either a deliberate sinner or a Christian you can't be both. That is not any theology other than the words of Jesus. You either love Jesus or you hate him.

I stand on the my words.

if a Christian truly has made Jesus Lord of his life he will not sin intentionally or willfully

It can't happen. I also can't help that you don't like that fact. But it is not some odd theology it is the truth of the gospel.

So you believe that a Christian cant sin because God controls the behavior of the Christian? But I thaught you told Leon that man is in control of his decisions? Ed your double talk is showing again.

I never said that, I said if our mind is on Jesus it won't be on sin. No double talk you are so tied up trying to prove that I'm a Calvinist that you don't read what I say you just shout Calvinist.

Scripture clearly says a Christian can sin and when they do there is not longer a sacrifice for their sin to be forgiven under. I have said that since the beginning of all of these threads. That is scripture and yes I know you are sure the is Calvinism.

[Rocky]

Scripture clearly says a Christian can sin and when they do there is not longer a sacrifice for their sin to be forgiven under. I have said that since the beginning of all of these threads. That is scripture and yes I know you are sure the is Calvinism.

Hello Ed but you said and I quote

Ed:I say a true Christian who has made Jesus Lord of their life can't willfully sin.if a Christian truly has made Jesus Lord of his life he will not sin intentionally or willfully. Again I say when someone willfully sins they never made Jesus Lord of their life. I don't believe they were really saved.

Hmm no double talk here lol
Ed all I am doing is showing your own quotes and now you seem to be arguing with your self. Ed cant you see this theology of yours does not add up. I am sorry I really just want to help..

[branham1965]

Let it end Dear Lord let it end!!!!!!!!!!!!

This thing will just not go away.



Christians can sin and they do sin.Christians are not born again as Scripture quoting Reverend Dake's.

[Justaned]

Scripture clearly says a Christian can sin and when they do there is not longer a sacrifice for their sin to be forgiven under. I have said that since the beginning of all of these threads. That is scripture and yes I know you are sure the is Calvinism.

Hello Ed but you said and I quote

Ed:I say a true Christian who has made Jesus Lord of their life can't willfully sin.if a Christian truly has made Jesus Lord of his life he will not sin intentionally or willfully. Again I say when someone willfully sins they never made Jesus Lord of their life. I don't believe they were really saved.

Hmm no double talk here lol
Ed all I am doing is showing your own quotes and now you seem to be arguing with your self. Ed cant you see this theology of yours does not add up. I am sorry I really just want to help..

Rocky
You are a mess!
I'm saying a Christian that has truly made Jesus his Lord can't willfully sin because he will not allow his flesh to entice him away from Christ. The idea will not come into his head if he is dwelling on Jesus

However there are many that call themselves Christians in live in rebellion to Christ, they commonly sin (backslide) if you like and keep going through the I repent please forgive me routine.

Now evidently according to scripture there are people that were true Christians, that made Jesus their Lord but then rejected or rebelled to commit willful and deliberate sin. However scripture says they no longer have a sacrifice under which to be saved. I further believe people in this group don't even care about God any longer and have no care for salvation.

So you have three conditions. True Christians, Play actors, and aberrant exceptions.

Now get your "That's Calvinism" Book and "That's MacArthur Teaching" Book out and start calling this Calvinism or MacArthurism or what ever you do. Be sure to assert the it is double talk, that is sure to impress someone.

[Rocky]

Scripture clearly says a Christian can sin and when they do there is not longer a sacrifice for their sin to be forgiven under. I have said that since the beginning of all of these threads. That is scripture and yes I know you are sure the is Calvinism.

Hello Ed but you said and I quote

Ed:I say a true Christian who has made Jesus Lord of their life can't willfully sin.if a Christian truly has made Jesus Lord of his life he will not sin intentionally or willfully. Again I say when someone willfully sins they never made Jesus Lord of their life. I don't believe they were really saved.

Hmm no double talk here lol
Ed all I am doing is showing your own quotes and now you seem to be arguing with your self. Ed cant you see this theology of yours does not add up. I am sorry I really just want to help..

Rocky
You are a mess!
I'm saying a Christian that has truly made Jesus his Lord can't willfully sin because he will not allow his flesh to entice him away from Christ. The idea will not come into his head if he is dwelling on Jesus

However there are many that call themselves Christians in live in rebellion to Christ, they commonly sin (backslide) if you like and keep going through the I repent please forgive me routine.

Now evidently according to scripture there are people that were true Christians, that made Jesus their Lord but then rejected or rebelled to commit willful and deliberate sin. However scripture says they no longer have a sacrifice under which to be saved. I further believe people in this group don't even care about God any longer and have no care for salvation.

So you have three conditions. True Christians, Play actors, and aberrant exceptions.

Now get your "That's Calvinism" Book and "That's MacArthur Teaching" Book out and start calling this Calvinism or MacArthurism or what ever you do. Be sure to assert the it is double talk, that is sure to impress someone.

I show your own quotes and I am the mess? I simply showed your own flip flop quotes. I am sorry you just confuse me a lot of the times because you say one thing and than another that contradicts what you just said. You will say I believe a Christian cant sin, then will say but if he does he was not saved in the first place. And now you claim that a true Christian even isn't temted to sin. But Ed, I thought you said a Christian cant sin. so if he was not really saved how can this be? Ed When you look back at your own statements do they make sense to you because I am lost. Sheesh could some one translate this for me please, I don't speak Flippyfloppyflopanese , It is driving me crazy. Oh and yes its Calvinism or Edism no wait I got, it "MacArhtercalvinedism" So Ed claims he never sins and is never tempted. Must be nice being as sinless as Christ was, should we start bulding an alter to the great and powerfull Ed lol. Should we start praying our father who art in Heaved Ed be thy name

[Justaned]

Scripture clearly says a Christian can sin and when they do there is not longer a sacrifice for their sin to be forgiven under. I have said that since the beginning of all of these threads. That is scripture and yes I know you are sure the is Calvinism.

Hello Ed but you said and I quote

Ed:I say a true Christian who has made Jesus Lord of their life can't willfully sin.if a Christian truly has made Jesus Lord of his life he will not sin intentionally or willfully. Again I say when someone willfully sins they never made Jesus Lord of their life. I don't believe they were really saved.

Hmm no double talk here lol
Ed all I am doing is showing your own quotes and now you seem to be arguing with your self. Ed cant you see this theology of yours does not add up. I am sorry I really just want to help..

Rocky
You are a mess!
I'm saying a Christian that has truly made Jesus his Lord can't willfully sin because he will not allow his flesh to entice him away from Christ. The idea will not come into his head if he is dwelling on Jesus

However there are many that call themselves Christians in live in rebellion to Christ, they commonly sin (backslide) if you like and keep going through the I repent please forgive me routine.

Now evidently according to scripture there are people that were true Christians, that made Jesus their Lord but then rejected or rebelled to commit willful and deliberate sin. However scripture says they no longer have a sacrifice under which to be saved. I further believe people in this group don't even care about God any longer and have no care for salvation.

So you have three conditions. True Christians, Play actors, and aberrant exceptions.

Now get your "That's Calvinism" Book and "That's MacArthur Teaching" Book out and start calling this Calvinism or MacArthurism or what ever you do. Be sure to assert the it is double talk, that is sure to impress someone.

I show your own quotes and I am the mess? I simply showed your own flip flop quotes. I am sorry you just confuse me a lot of the times because you say one thing and than another that contradicts what you just said. You will say I believe a Christian cant sin, then will say but if he does he was not saved in the first place. But Ed, I thought you said a Christian cant sin. so if he was not really saved how can this be? Ed When look back at your own statements do they make sense to you because I am lost. Sheesh could some one translate this for me please, I don't speak Flippyfloppyflopanese , It is driving me crazy. Oh and yes its Calvinism or Edism no wait I got, it "MacArhtercalvinedism"

You are a mess because you read into what I say instead of reading what I say.

I say a Christian can't sin and you see this as me saying God prevents the person from sinning. I never said or suggested that God took away their free choice you invented that idea yourself.

Now read this without your filter, without your drama, without thinking about Calvin or MacArthur simply read what I say don't read stuff into it and don't add to it just read it. Calmly and rationally.

I'm saying a Christian that has truly made Jesus his Lord can't willfully sin because he will not allow his flesh to entice him away from Christ. The idea will not come into his head if he is dwelling on Jesus

However there are many that call themselves Christians in live in rebellion to Christ, they commonly sin (backslide) if you like and keep going through the I repent please forgive me routine.

Now evidently according to scripture there are people that were true Christians, that made Jesus their Lord but then rejected or rebelled to commit willful and deliberate sin. However scripture says they no longer have a sacrifice under which to be saved. I further believe people in this group don't even care about God any longer and have no care for salvation.

So you have three conditions. True Christians, Play actors, and aberrant exceptions.

Now without getting all excited and ready to do battle tell me what you see in these statement you don't like.

[branham1965]

this is a real old fashioned feud...like the Hatfield's and McCoy's.....

[Rocky]

Ed When you look back at your own statements do they make sense to you because I am lost. Sheesh could some one translate this for me please, I don't speak Flippyfloppyflopanese , It is driving me crazy. Oh and yes its Calvinism or Edism no wait I got, it "MacArhtercalvinedism" So Ed claims he never sins and is never tempted. Must be nice being as sinless as Christ was, should we start bulding an alter to the great and powerfull Ed lol. Should we start praying our father who art in Heaved Ed be thy name

[Justaned]

Ed When you look back at your own statements do they make sense to you because I am lost. Sheesh could some one translate this for me please, I don't speak Flippyfloppyflopanese , It is driving me crazy. Oh and yes its Calvinism or Edism no wait I got, it "MacArhtercalvinedism" So Ed claims he never sins and is never tempted. Must be nice being as sinless as Christ was, should we start bulding an alter to the great and powerfull Ed lol. Should we start praying our father who art in Heaved Ed be thy name

As I said Rocky you are an absolute mess. Besides that you can't read.

I gave you three direct and simply points and asked which you objected to and you go all drama on us.

If you want drama go tell your wife she needs to get life, that will probably get you all the drama you seek.

I figured I better add I am not saying, implying or suggesting that your wife needs to get a life. I'm using it as way for you to get drama you seem to need into your life. As far as I know your wife is fine in fact I really don't know anything about your wife so again this was not about your wife just a way for you to get some drama.