Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ 2 COR 12 VERSES 20 AND 21

[branham1965]

the problem today is its all mouth and no backside as some used to say about some fighters.

its the Laodicean church age.the last one.Revelation 3:14ff.

and its everywhere in everyplace all over the Earth.

i heard that young man say the works of the flesh were the law.
and Joel Osteen backs him as does TBN 100%%%%%%%%%%%%
that we could be sinning grave sins and just say im the righteosness of God in Christ!!!!!!!!!!! no need for repentance!!!!!!!!or confession!!!!!!!!!!
and folks eat it.
and people will kick Jimmy Swaggart in the face for Preaching the Cross.

i was condemned for going to an Apostolic Church August 2012.

the Preachers i knew told me Joseph Prince teaching.it did not work!!!!!!!

so i went down with the so called heretics and was delivered by the Lord Jesus!!!!!!!

as was my 72year old Mother.!!!

IN MY NAME THEY SHALL CAST OUT DEVILS.....thats scoffed at.explained away.
there are not many who do that today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
people have said the most vile demonic things about Reverend Ernest Angley.ive heard them seal their doom.just like about Brother Branham.not disagreeing with some things he said at the end but saying he was of the devil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!a lie of the devil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
how odd that the Reverend Tommie Lee Osborn gave his eulogy!!!!!!!!!!!!!
he had more sense to bad mouth that kind of man of God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!he honored him so beautifully.



and do you think for a second Preachers on here save Bibleman would say a good word about the 92 year old Warrior?????!!!!he heads to Africa for a two week Crusade in February!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

people badmouthing and mocking him are so far gone they...my Pastor warned us solemny in the Assembly never ever badmouth God's servants or His Ministers...especially Ernest Angley.just keep your big rebellious stiffnecked mouths shut!!!!!!!!!!!
and people who Pastoral leading he threw them out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!he beat wolves out of his Church.and he had signs wonders and miracles delivereance...i was so overcome once there that i groaned and wept after he layed hands on me for 2 hours at least!!!!!!!!!!!!!it felt like heaven.

guess what they called him up there.jim jones,the devil,adolf hitler....

[Justaned]

What about lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh and pride of life none of which needs the tempter to raise the ugly head of sin?

I think that the Scripture disputes you on that:

• 1John 2:14-17
  14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
  15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
  16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
  17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

First, all that you mention is associated with this world's system where Satan is the ruler (John 16:11; 2 Cor. 4:4). The overcoming of the wicked one mentioned in 1 John 2:14 is associated with all that is in the world in verse 16. So there is most certainly a tempter involved.

But is says these lust will exist until the world passes away. That is when everyone will have a glorified body. As you show below Satan will be locked up but these lusts go on until the world itself is destroyed.

If Satan was lock away the world would still suffer the effects of sin. People would lust after what they don't have and if they entertain that desire long enough they will conceive a plan to obtain that which is not theirs. If left to their own resources they will allow the plan to turn into sin. Just as James details it.

The Bible once again proves you wrong here:

• Revelation 20:2-8
  2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
  3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
  4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
  5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
  6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
  7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
  8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

During Christ's 1000 year millenial reign one will be hard pressed to find someone willingly sinning. Everything will be taken care of for them by the King. It is only when they are deceived that they will begin to rebel against God.

Going back to the "glorified body" thing. When you are in a glorified body and in Heaven where every need and godly desire is met then there will be no "unmet desires". Most of the time sin is attempting to meet a legitimate desire in a selfish and ungodly way.

But go read Zechariah 14:1-21 that Dake points to as speaking of the same period of time you are talking about. Here it says, when the people rebel God will withhold rain from them and send plagues to them. Doesn't sound like all sin is dead to me, does it to you?

That is the problem in the American church we blame everyone but ourselves for the situation we are in. If we quit passing the blame of sin off on Satan and place it exactly where it belongs things would be different in the American Church.
We talk people up until they think they don't need anyone including Jesus. What we should be doing is showing that without Jesus they are little more than wild animals.

Classic example homosexual that brags that they have slept with 360 different people in a year. Is that love or is the same thing we see in animals that will go to another animal not in love but to satisfy an animal instinct. Think about it. This is why so many evolutionist want to convince us we descend from animals. If they can prove that then the lust desires that lead to sin are not bad but instead are natural instincts to aid us through life. without the lust of flesh, we would reproduce, we would no seek new venues for food, for money, for this or for that. So the lusts are all good according to them. Hogwash! Lust is what takes man into sin and nothing else. Sure the devil may come around and play on one of you lusts but it was your lust that made you commit the sin.

I think the biggest problem with the American church is either denying the existence of Satan or making it seems as if he plays no major role in the sin that is rampantly spreading in our nation and around the world. When you don't take an enemy seriously then you will do nothing about him and he will continue to steak, kill, and destroy unhindered. The American church continues with their preaching and their programs and their protests against abortion clinics and attempting to fight the spread of homosexuality through intellectual debates and put little emphasis on the fact that our warfare is a SPIRITUAL BATTLE!! THis is just the way the devil wants it and those who play down the devil are doing his work for him whether they realize it or not.

No one is denying the existence of Satan but Satan is only the tempter, so things are conceived in the minds of men of which Satan has no involvement. Yes it is a spiritual battle if everyone had the Holy Spirit and thought in spiritual realities instead of physical things would be different. Satan is one being and he is not omnipresence so to suggest that Satan is the root of all evil in nonsense. Yes Satan is real, Satan is evil but the heart of man is evil and our bodies contain lusts. That is why we are told to crucify the flesh. Satan is defeated foe if draw close to God resist the devil, Satan will flee from us. But we still us to contend with. James 1:14-15 clearly tells us how sin gets a hold in our lives. Man is drawn away by his own desires. Lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh and pride of life.

[victoryword]

What about lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh and pride of life none of which needs the tempter to raise the ugly head of sin? If Satan was lock away the world would still suffer the effects of sin. People would lust after what they don't have and if they entertain that desire long enough they will conceive a plan to obtain that which is not theirs. If left to their own resources they will allow the plan to turn into sin. Just as James details it.

As I was reading Billy's response, I decided to look at yours again to see if I missed something. Lo and behold, I did. You are also wrong about James. Certainly James does hold us responsible for our yielding to temptation:

• James 1:13-15
  13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
  14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
  15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

But James also makes it clear that there is a supernatural tempter involved:

• James 4:6-10
  6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
  7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
  8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
  9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
  10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

If I read and find anything more unbiblical with your post I'll be sure to let you know.

[Justaned]

What about lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh and pride of life none of which needs the tempter to raise the ugly head of sin? If Satan was lock away the world would still suffer the effects of sin. People would lust after what they don't have and if they entertain that desire long enough they will conceive a plan to obtain that which is not theirs. If left to their own resources they will allow the plan to turn into sin. Just as James details it.

As I was reading Billy's response, I decided to look at yours again to see if I missed something. Lo and behold, I did. You are also wrong about James. Certainly James does hold us responsible for our yielding to temptation:

• James 1:13-15
  13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
  14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
  15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

But James also makes it clear that there is a supernatural tempter involved:

• James 4:6-10
  6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
  7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
  8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
  9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
  10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

If I read and find anything more unbiblical with your post I'll be sure to let you know.

Never denied the existence of Satan but read the passage in James 1:13-15 where does the temptation come from?

...he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

His own lust is what draws him not always Satan.

Sure Satan is involved in this world never said he wasn't. What I said is Satan is only one being. He is not omnipresent so he can't be everywhere. He can't be tempting a guy that is shooting up heron in China right now and tempting a teen ages to shoplift in LA as the same time yet those things occurs continuously throughout society.

In my opinion unless you are someone like Billy Graham Satan has never dealt with you personally. Couldn't didn't have the time. Satan is about the accuser of the saints he is too busy whispering in God ears did you see that, did you hear that? While Jesus our intercessor is saying Father they are mine.

Satan takes time to go after the big guns those that effect hundreds of thousands but what does he care about John Doe down the street. If he isn't saved he is committing sin all on his own and Satan doesn't have time for him.

Or what does Satan care about Harry Pewsitter he is only sitting on the pew, he never shares the word with anyone, never lets his light shine, he has no effect on the grand scheme of things (so to speak).

Or what does he care about lousy preacher in pulpit that that preaching to have the church grow so his salary will go up. If anything he is already doing Satan's work preaching half truths and falsehoods. He is preaching to pump people up so they feel good about themselves instead of telling them of their need for more Jesus in their lives.

[victoryword]

But is says these lust will exist until the world passes away. That is when everyone will have a glorified body. As you show below Satan will be locked up but these lusts go on until the world itself is destroyed.

Thanks for your response, but you are wrong here. We do not get our glorified bodies when the world passes away but when we are caught up in there air to meet Jesus:

• 1 Cor. 15:52-53
  52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
  53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

If we read this carefully then we will see that this is speaking about the pre-tribulation rapture of the church.

But go read Zechariah 14:1-21 that Dake points to as speaking of the same period of time you are talking about. Here it says, when the people rebel God will withhold rain from them and send plagues to them. Doesn't sound like all sin is dead to me, does it to you?

I read it. I don't have access to my Dake material right now but as I read it, if Zech. 14 is speaking about the millenium (it really does not appear to be to me but, just for laughs let's just say that it is), itseems to be more in conjunction with Rev. 20. Observe:

• Zech. 14:11-12
  11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
  12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
  
  Rev. 20:8-9
  7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
  8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
  9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

If ZEch. 14 is a prophecy of the millenial reign then it only makes sense that it is referring to the end of it when Satan is loosed. So, I think you are wrong - again.

No one is denying the existence of Satan but Satan is only the tempter, so things are conceived in the minds of men of which Satan has no involvement. Yes it is a spiritual battle if everyone had the Holy Spirit and thought in spiritual realities instead of physical things would be different. Satan is one being and he is not omnipresence so to suggest that Satan is the root of all evil in nonsense. Yes Satan is real, Satan is evil but the heart of man is evil and our bodies contain lusts. That is why we are told to crucify the flesh. Satan is defeated foe if draw close to God resist the devil, Satan will flee from us. But we still us to contend with. James 1:14-15 clearly tells us how sin gets a hold in our lives. Man is drawn away by his own desires. Lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh and pride of life.

I already dealt with your James 1 passage before I read this post so I don't need to repeat again how wrong you are here. But I do need to respond to the idea that Satan is not the root of all evil. The BIble does not give him the title "the evil one" and "the wicked one" for nothing. He is indeed the source and the root of it all. If there had been no Satan or if Lucifer had never rebelled, thus making himself Satan then there would have been no evil. Ezekiel 28 says that iniquity was found in him. John 8:44 says that he is the FATHER of lying and murdering. Matthew 13 states that he is the one who plants the tares among the wheat. The BIble states that he is the ruler of the kingdom of darkness (Acts 26:18; Col. 1:12-13), and that all wickedness finds its source in his kingdom (Eph. 6:10-12). The seed and the root of evil is Satan himself. To deny this is to belittle the place he holds in this thus unnecessarily perpetuating the so-called "problem of evil".

The problem with so much so-called "theodicy" is its failure to see Satan as the root of evil, thus continuing to spin around in circles about why men can be so depraved even though God is so good..

[victoryword]

What about lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh and pride of life none of which needs the tempter to raise the ugly head of sin? If Satan was lock away the world would still suffer the effects of sin. People would lust after what they don't have and if they entertain that desire long enough they will conceive a plan to obtain that which is not theirs. If left to their own resources they will allow the plan to turn into sin. Just as James details it.

As I was reading Billy's response, I decided to look at yours again to see if I missed something. Lo and behold, I did. You are also wrong about James. Certainly James does hold us responsible for our yielding to temptation:

• James 1:13-15
  13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
  14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
  15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

But James also makes it clear that there is a supernatural tempter involved:

• James 4:6-10
  6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
  7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
  8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
  9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
  10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

If I read and find anything more unbiblical with your post I'll be sure to let you know.

Never denied the existence of Satan but read the passage in James 1:13-15 where does the temptation come from?

...he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

His own lust is what draws him not always Satan.

Sure Satan is involved in this world never said he wasn't. What I said is Satan is only one being. He is not omnipresent so he can't be everywhere. He can't be tempting a guy that is shooting up heron in China right now and tempting a teen ages to shoplift in LA as the same time yet those things occurs continuously throughout society.

In my opinion unless you are someone like Billy Graham Satan has never dealt with you personally. Couldn't didn't have the time. Satan is about the accuser of the saints he is too busy whispering in God ears did you see that, did you hear that? While Jesus our intercessor is saying Father they are mine.

Satan takes time to go after the big guns those that effect hundreds of thousands but what does he care about John Doe down the street. If he isn't saved he is committing sin all on his own and Satan doesn't have time for him.

Or what does Satan care about Harry Pewsitter he is only sitting on the pew, he never shares the word with anyone, never lets his light shine, he has no effect on the grand scheme of things (so to speak).

Or what does he care about lousy preacher in pulpit that that preaching to have the church grow so his salary will go up. If anything he is already doing Satan's work preaching half truths and falsehoods. He is preaching to pump people up so they feel good about themselves instead of telling them of their need for more Jesus in their lives.

It was Eve's own personal lust that caused her to eat the fruit but a tempter was still involved (Gen. 3:1-7; 1 Cor. 11:3). It may be the person's own lust but the Bible says that Satan is the Tempter:

• Matthew 4:3
  And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
  
  1 Thessalonians 3:5
  For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.

Whether he does that through the evil spirits working under him or he involves himself in it personally is a moot point. The Bible states that he is the Tempter. In Luke 13 when Jesus cast out a spirit of infirmity out of a "nobody" woman who was not a major player in the kingdom of God, Jesus said that it was SATAN who had her bound (Luke 13:16). In Acts 10:38 Peter says that the people Jesus healed were oppressed by Satan. I am sure that Peter was not saying that Satan is omnipresent but he does attribute the work of Satan's demons to Satan himself. Paul said that he was called to turn men from the power of Satan (Acts 26:18). We are told to resist the devil himself and give no place to him (James 4:7; 1 Pet. 5:8-9; Eph. 4:26).

I can cite a whole lot more but hopefully you get the point (though I am not sure how confident that I can be about that). Satan is the Tempter.

[Justaned]

But is says these lust will exist until the world passes away. That is when everyone will have a glorified body. As you show below Satan will be locked up but these lusts go on until the world itself is destroyed.

Thanks for your response, but you are wrong here. We do not get our glorified bodies when the world passes away but when we are caught up in there air to meet Jesus:

Where are the people that don't have glorified bodies standing what God destroys this earth with fire?
But the point I'm making is the lust of the eyes, lust of the flush, and pride of life remain as long as this world remains. Satan has no effect on them.

But go read Zechariah 14:1-21 that Dake points to as speaking of the same period of time you are talking about. Here it says, when the people rebel God will withhold rain from them and send plagues to them. Doesn't sound like all sin is dead to me, does it to you?

I read it. I don't have access to my Dake material right now but as I read it, if Zech. 14 is speaking about the millenium (it really does not appear to be to me but, just for laughs let's just say that it is), itseems to be more in conjunction with Rev. 20. Observe:

• Zech. 14:11-12
  11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
  12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
  
  Rev. 20:8-9
  7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
  8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
  9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

If ZEch. 14 is a prophecy of the millenial reign then it only makes sense that it is referring to the end of it when Satan is loosed. So, I think you are wrong - again.

That is making a condition that is never mentioned in scripture and you place it there not because it is implied or hinted at but because it validates you invalid theology. You can't add to scripture.

No one is denying the existence of Satan but Satan is only the tempter, so things are conceived in the minds of men of which Satan has no involvement. Yes it is a spiritual battle if everyone had the Holy Spirit and thought in spiritual realities instead of physical things would be different. Satan is one being and he is not omnipresence so to suggest that Satan is the root of all evil in nonsense. Yes Satan is real, Satan is evil but the heart of man is evil and our bodies contain lusts. That is why we are told to crucify the flesh. Satan is defeated foe if draw close to God resist the devil, Satan will flee from us. But we still us to contend with. James 1:14-15 clearly tells us how sin gets a hold in our lives. Man is drawn away by his own desires. Lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh and pride of life.

I already dealt with your James 1 passage before I read this post so I don't need to repeat again how wrong you are here.

Says you but scripture is very clear it tells us where sin comes from and there is absolutely no mention of Satan. Again you add your reasoning not because it is implied or suggestted but instead to validate your invalid theology.

But I do need to respond to the idea that Satan is not the root of all evil. The BIble does not give him the title "the evil one" and "the wicked one" for nothing. He is indeed the source and the root of it all. If there had been no Satan or if Lucifer had never rebelled, thus making himself Satan then there would have been no evil. Ezekiel 28 says that iniquity was found in him. John 8:44 says that he is the FATHER of lying and murdering. Matthew 13 states that he is the one who plants the tares among the wheat. The BIble states that he is the ruler of the kingdom of darkness (Acts 26:18; Col. 1:12-13), and that all wickedness finds its source in his kingdom (Eph. 6:10-12). The seed and the root of evil is Satan himself. To deny this is to belittle the place he holds in this thus unnecessarily perpetuating the so-called "problem of evil".

But scripture never give him the title of "Root of all Evil". You are making statements you are not qualified to make. You can't say what would or would not be if there were no Satan. Your idea that this world would be peachy if Satan does not bear witness to the Spirit. If all God had to do was remove Satan to make everything right again, He would do it. We see in the end God has no problem casting Satan into the Lake of Fire. Sin entered the world through Adam not Satan. Jesus came to remove that sin not to remove Satan. Your theology is man made to glorify man and blame Satan for man's sin.

The problem with so much so-called "theodicy" is its failure to see Satan as the root of evil, thus continuing to spin around in circles about why men can be so depraved even though God is so good..

Show me one place in scripture that Satan is labeled the "Root of All Evil" He is not. Again sin entered the world. It didn't enter through Satan it entered through Adam. Man is depraved because sin entered man through Adam. Satan only uses that sin to destroy God's work in man. Satan doesn't even care about man all Satan wants is to destroy God's works. The sin within man allows man to become Satan's pawns.

[victoryword]

Ed, I'm not going to waste my time with you anymore. Anyone who reads my posts and looks over the Scriptures I have cited will know that I am teaching the truth and you are promoting the usual "Justanedology".

For those who want a more in depth teaching on this, get my book: "The Tempter: His Tactics and How to Take Him Out"


Get it at Amazon.com

[Justaned]

For anyone that wants the TRUTH without man's opinion get yourself a copy of the Holy Bible
On sale most anywhere and read it.
It is God breathed and from it you will find all truth.

And the best part is God didn't do it to make a buck.
Sure it cost money to buy a bible. Paper costs money, type setting cost money, ink costs money, bindings cost money and to have the book bound costs money, packaging it cost money, shipping it costs money and to display and selling it costs money. This is all the expenses that goes into the production and selling of a bound copy of the Bible.
None of the money goes to God.

[Rocky]

Ed, I'm not going to waste my time with you anymore. Anyone who reads my posts and looks over the Scriptures I have cited will know that I am teaching the truth and you are promoting the usual "Justanedology".

For those who want a more in depth teaching on this, get my book: "The Tempter: His Tactics and How to Take Him Out"


Get it at Amazon.com

I like the Cover, But of course I do lol..