Dake Bible Discussion BoardThere is no man that sinneth not

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:12 pm

Hill Top wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:59 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:19 pm
Only as something to strive for. . . A goal to aspire to. . .
But unobtainable?
I wouldn't say that they all believe it is unobtainable, no.


Isaiah 29:12-13 New King James Version
Then the book is delivered to one who is illiterate, saying, "Read this, please." And he says, "I am not literate." Therefore the LORD said: "Inasmuch as these people draw near with their mouths And honor Me with their lips, But have removed their hearts far from Me, And their fear toward Me is taught by the commandment of men...

Hill Top
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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by Hill Top » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:29 pm

Ironman wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:48 pm
Luke 1:5, For he (John the Baptist) shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

John was filled with the Holy Spirit from the womb, but he was not baptised with the Holy Spirit, (Matthew 3:13-14),
V, 13, Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
V, 14, But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
I have to admit I had never thought of that scenario before.
I suppose that the baptism of the Holy Ghost is different than having the Spirit from John's mother's womb.
The Holy Spirit was given to some men in the OT, but wasn't always a permanent condition...like Saul.
The present day baptism of the Holy Ghost is still a function of God, but promised only to those who have turned from sin. (Acts 2:38)
In the OT, the Spirit was given to initiate or do some special project of/for God.
It wasn't rebirth.
Now, It "quickens" those who were dead in trespasses and sins and have killed the old man and been raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 8:11, Rom 6:6)
Eccl. 7: 20, For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
Romans 3: 10, As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Romans 3: 23, For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
These OT citings were used by Paul to show the Jews that they were just as much in need of a Savior as the Gentiles were.
The Law made them no better than the pagans were.
He went on from there to teach about the new way of God: by faith instead of by the deeds of the Law.
Last edited by Hill Top on Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Hill Top
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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by Hill Top » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:31 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:12 pm
I wouldn't say that they all believe it is unobtainable, no.
Did any of them ever say they were without sin?
That they had "obtained" that holy state?



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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:35 am

Hill Top wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:31 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:12 pm
I wouldn't say that they all believe it is unobtainable, no.
Did any of them ever say they were without sin?
That they had "obtained" that holy state?
Some claimed that they had, yes.


Isaiah 29:12-13 New King James Version
Then the book is delivered to one who is illiterate, saying, "Read this, please." And he says, "I am not literate." Therefore the LORD said: "Inasmuch as these people draw near with their mouths And honor Me with their lips, But have removed their hearts far from Me, And their fear toward Me is taught by the commandment of men...

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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by luchnia » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:13 am

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:30 pm
Ironman wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:05 pm
All people inherited sin from Adam and Eve, specifically from Adam.
luchnia wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:53 pm
The word "all" is a very interesting word and it is often used in a manner that is not inclusive of everything in the subject matter. Where did John the Baptist inherit his sin from since he was filled with the Holy Spirit in the womb of his mother? Did it still come from Adam and Eve?

Since he was filled with the Spirit from birth does that mean that the Spirit took up company with John's sin that he inherited from Adam and Eve? That question is worth some thought.
I believe that it means that John was born again in the womb, prior to being filled with the Spirit. I believe this happened when Elizabeth heard Mary's voice and John leaped in response.
That is entirely possible and probably accurate. I believe what the Holy Spirit and Jesus said about John the Baptist. There is NO record of John the Baptist ever once turning to evil. If there is I wish someone would post it. Now maybe he did and need to repent, but we have no record either way, so to say he did is speculation without scriptural basis. To take a scripture out of context to attempt to prove such does not make it truth. It is a somewhat baseless proposition.

Folks don't seem to seek to reconcile God's word. Another example that there were righteous people were the words that Jesus said about not coming for the righteous but for the unrighteous. A righteous man does not need saving, but an unrighteous man does. The fact is all is not inclusive, or Jesus is a sinner as you posted in an earlier post.

Those that are in sin are unrighteous and in need of a savior or they will perish without God. If John was born from the womb with the Holy Spirit then why did he need saving? Saving from what - the Holy Spirit?


Word up!

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luchnia
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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by luchnia » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:19 am

Ironman wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:58 pm

You are now nit-picking. Why don't you just tear out of your bible the things you do not believe and be done with it and stop arguing about trivial rubbish? No wonder people leave here and go to other boards.
Not sure why you are so hateful toward me, but to me there is nothing in God's word that is "trivial rubbish." You are welcome to NOT reply to my posts.


Word up!

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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by luchnia » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:37 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:30 pm
Ironman wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:05 pm
All people inherited sin from Adam and Eve, specifically from Adam.
luchnia wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:53 pm
The word "all" is a very interesting word and it is often used in a manner that is not inclusive of everything in the subject matter. Where did John the Baptist inherit his sin from since he was filled with the Holy Spirit in the womb of his mother? Did it still come from Adam and Eve?

Since he was filled with the Spirit from birth does that mean that the Spirit took up company with John's sin that he inherited from Adam and Eve? That question is worth some thought.
I believe that it means that John was born again in the womb, prior to being filled with the Spirit. I believe this happened when Elizabeth heard Mary's voice and John leaped in response.
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Have you ever noticed how Romans chapter 5 is re-arranged by men to make sin the thing that was passed on instead of death because of sin as the context actually teaches? Men want that to mean that sin passed on to all men and somehow exclude Jesus from being a man to force that meaning. Men say, "we inherited sin through Adam" which is not in the verses.

Notice verse 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. Sin doesn't reign over man. Man has choice to not sin. Man can halt sin dead in its tracks and serve God and righteousness.

And the most important part of the chapter is verse 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. This is the victorious life of righteousness of the saint that partakes of the divine nature of God.


Word up!

Hill Top
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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by Hill Top » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:14 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:35 am

Some claimed that they had, yes.
Didn't you fellowship with them to "learn their ways"?



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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by TruthSeeker » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:31 pm

luchnia wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:37 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:30 pm
Ironman wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:05 pm
All people inherited sin from Adam and Eve, specifically from Adam.
luchnia wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:53 pm
The word "all" is a very interesting word and it is often used in a manner that is not inclusive of everything in the subject matter. Where did John the Baptist inherit his sin from since he was filled with the Holy Spirit in the womb of his mother? Did it still come from Adam and Eve?

Since he was filled with the Spirit from birth does that mean that the Spirit took up company with John's sin that he inherited from Adam and Eve? That question is worth some thought.
I believe that it means that John was born again in the womb, prior to being filled with the Spirit. I believe this happened when Elizabeth heard Mary's voice and John leaped in response.
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Have you ever noticed how Romans chapter 5 is re-arranged by men to make sin the thing that was passed on instead of death because of sin as the context actually teaches? Men want that to mean that sin passed on to all men and somehow exclude Jesus from being a man to force that meaning. Men say, "we inherited sin through Adam" which is not in the verses.

Notice verse 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. Sin doesn't reign over man. Man has choice to not sin. Man can halt sin dead in its tracks and serve God and righteousness.

And the most important part of the chapter is verse 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. This is the victorious life of righteousness of the saint that partakes of the divine nature of God.
I see what you and SBD are getting at with John the Baptist but I don't want to assume what you two mean. Are you saying that John the Baptist was born with out sin and there is no record that he ever did sin during his lifetime?

If that is what you mean, what about 1John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us"



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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by Ironman » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:40 pm

luchnia wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:19 am
Ironman wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:58 pm

You are now nit-picking. Why don't you just tear out of your bible the things you do not believe and be done with it and stop arguing about trivial rubbish? No wonder people leave here and go to other boards.
Not sure why you are so hateful toward me, but to me there is nothing in God's word that is "trivial rubbish." You are welcome to NOT reply to my posts.
Not being hateful just pointing out a fact. You nit pick plain easy to understand Scriptures to pieces.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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