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branham1965
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Re: Non Christians

Post by branham1965 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:41 pm

Reverend David Wilkerson was sent by God to the gangs of New York City.
He was anointed and equipped by the Lord to deal with those young men.
See Cross and the Switchblade.
Nicky Cruz was the most ruthless of the gang leaders .He found Jesus Christ through Dave Wilkerson's ministry.
Nicky has a powerful ministry to the gangs and the world.
Run Baby Run is his story.



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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: Non Christians

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:00 pm

bibleman wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:52 am
macca wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:01 am
Billy is the only one to understand my question.
:shocked!: :shocked!: :shocked!:
I will ponder why!
OK my friend Macca a question.

You are preaching on the streets.

You encounter a group of homosexuals who are abusing children sexually while forcing the children to smoke dope getting them high so there is not so much resistance.

As for as the preaching you do - Do you you?
1) warn them of their sin and plead with them to change their lives and no longer abuse themselves and the children OR
2) just tell them that Jesus loves them and came to save them?

Good question.

I think the right answer is neither.

Matthew 7:6 King James Version

GIVE NOT THAT WHICH IS HOLY UNTO THE DOGS

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Jesus knew what it would have taken to get Sodom to repent. Yet, He withheld it from them.

Matthew 11:20-24 King James Version

IF THE MIGHTY WORKS HAD BEEN DONE IN SODOM

Then began He to upbraid the cities wherein most of His mighty works were done, because they repented not:

"Woe unto thee, Chorazin!

"Woe unto thee, Bethsaida!

"For if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the Day of Judgment, than for you.

"And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto Heaven, shalt be brought down to Hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the Day of Judgment, than for thee."

In a better world, dogs such as those you wrote about would be put down, ending their sin that they would have had a more tolerable afterlife. Yet, this world is nigh merciless and allows such to add more and more sin to their account.

Could Jesus have sent someone to Sodom, Tyre, and Sidon to perform the works that would have led to the enduring repentance of each city, to a legacy of righteousness? Yes, He could have. But, He did not.

Give not that which is holy (the Gospel) to the dogs.



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Re: Non Christians

Post by macca » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:47 pm

bibleman wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:52 am
macca wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:01 am
Billy is the only one to understand my question.
:shocked!: :shocked!: :shocked!:
I will ponder why!
OK my friend Macca a question.

You are preaching on the streets.

You encounter a group of homosexuals who are abusing children sexually while forcing the children to smoke dope getting them high so there is not so much resistance.

As for as the preaching you do - Do you you?
1) warn them of their sin and plead with them to change their lives and no longer abuse themselves and the children OR
2) just tell them that Jesus loves them and came to save them?



This is different, being on the end of one of your inventive return serves.......

I have never preached on the streets, so I do not know how that would be with me....

I would let the law deal with those people committing those heinous crimes, while I would restrain myself from
doing what my flesh would naturally do...... :2gunfire:

Your 2 preaching points are very condescending Leon; Neither of them is the gospel (good news) and it would be wasted on
devils like your example.....unless God expressly told me to witness to them with the power of the Holy Spirit as my helper.

The gospel I preach is the same as Paul's 2 Cor.5:11-21; 1 Cor. 15:1-11; Rom. 10:6-13;


What I originally meant was, say, the people who live in our neighourhood are we going to tell them how to live right before they get saved or does that come afterwards ????????



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bibleman
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Re: Non Christians

Post by bibleman » Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:33 am

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:00 pm
bibleman wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:52 am
macca wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:01 am
Billy is the only one to understand my question.
:shocked!: :shocked!: :shocked!:
I will ponder why!
OK my friend Macca a question.

You are preaching on the streets.

You encounter a group of homosexuals who are abusing children sexually while forcing the children to smoke dope getting them high so there is not so much resistance.

As for as the preaching you do - Do you you?
1) warn them of their sin and plead with them to change their lives and no longer abuse themselves and the children OR
2) just tell them that Jesus loves them and came to save them?

Good question.

I think the right answer is neither.

Matthew 7:6 King James Version

GIVE NOT THAT WHICH IS HOLY UNTO THE DOGS

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Jesus knew what it would have taken to get Sodom to repent. Yet, He withheld it from them.

Matthew 11:20-24 King James Version

IF THE MIGHTY WORKS HAD BEEN DONE IN SODOM

Then began He to upbraid the cities wherein most of His mighty works were done, because they repented not:

"Woe unto thee, Chorazin!

"Woe unto thee, Bethsaida!

"For if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the Day of Judgment, than for you.

"And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto Heaven, shalt be brought down to Hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the Day of Judgment, than for thee."

In a better world, dogs such as those you wrote about would be put down, ending their sin that they would have had a more tolerable afterlife. Yet, this world is nigh merciless and allows such to add more and more sin to their account.

Could Jesus have sent someone to Sodom, Tyre, and Sidon to perform the works that would have led to the enduring repentance of each city, to a legacy of righteousness? Yes, He could have. But, He did not.

Give not that which is holy (the Gospel) to the dogs.
Neither???

Now Roger,... would that not have wiped away the ministries of Jesus, John, Billy Graham, Rod Parsley, (historic Swaggart) and ALL TV ministries?

Didn't Jesus tell us: Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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bibleman
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Re: Non Christians

Post by bibleman » Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:39 am

macca wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:47 pm
bibleman wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:52 am
macca wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:01 am
Billy is the only one to understand my question.
:shocked!: :shocked!: :shocked!:
I will ponder why!
OK my friend Macca a question.

You are preaching on the streets.

You encounter a group of homosexuals who are abusing children sexually while forcing the children to smoke dope getting them high so there is not so much resistance.

As for as the preaching you do - Do you you?
1) warn them of their sin and plead with them to change their lives and no longer abuse themselves and the children OR
2) just tell them that Jesus loves them and came to save them?



This is different, being on the end of one of your inventive return serves.......

I have never preached on the streets, so I do not know how that would be with me....

I would let the law deal with those people committing those heinous crimes, while I would restrain myself from
doing what my flesh would naturally do...... :2gunfire:

Your 2 preaching points are very condescending Leon; Neither of them is the gospel (good news) and it would be wasted on
devils like your example.....unless God expressly told me to witness to them with the power of the Holy Spirit as my helper.

The gospel I preach is the same as Paul's 2 Cor.5:11-21; 1 Cor. 15:1-11; Rom. 10:6-13;

What I originally meant was, say, the people who live in our neighourhood are we going to tell them how to live right before they get saved or does that come afterwards ????????
Macca,

Sorry, Very sorry.... Not meaning to be condescending at all... It is just that there are so many situations that need to be looked at when a universal statement is made.

But to take your revised statement: "What I originally meant was, say, the people who live in our neighbor hood are we going to tell them how to live right before they get saved or does that come afterwards ????????"

Ideally I would want them saved FIRST and then give them instructing in righteousness.

BUT if I saw them throwing rocks at my dog, dumping beer cans in my yard, playing LOUD music all night long keeping me awake, (sinner or not) I would tell them to STOP - wouldn't you??


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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Spiritblade Disciple
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
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Re: Non Christians

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:55 pm

bibleman wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:52 am
macca wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:01 am
Billy is the only one to understand my question.
:shocked!: :shocked!: :shocked!:
I will ponder why!
OK my friend Macca a question.

You are preaching on the streets.

You encounter a group of homosexuals who are abusing children sexually while forcing the children to smoke dope getting them high so there is not so much resistance.

As for as the preaching you do - Do you you?
1) warn them of their sin and plead with them to change their lives and no longer abuse themselves and the children OR
2) just tell them that Jesus loves them and came to save them?
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:00 pm
Good question.

I think the right answer is neither.

Matthew 7:6 King James Version

GIVE NOT THAT WHICH IS HOLY UNTO THE DOGS

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Jesus knew what it would have taken to get Sodom to repent. Yet, He withheld it from them.

Matthew 11:20-24 King James Version

IF THE MIGHTY WORKS HAD BEEN DONE IN SODOM

Then began He to upbraid the cities wherein most of His mighty works were done, because they repented not:

"Woe unto thee, Chorazin!

"Woe unto thee, Bethsaida!

"For if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the Day of Judgment, than for you.

"And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto Heaven, shalt be brought down to Hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the Day of Judgment, than for thee."

In a better world, dogs such as those you wrote about would be put down, ending their sin that they would have had a more tolerable afterlife. Yet, this world is nigh merciless and allows such to add more and more sin to their account.

Could Jesus have sent someone to Sodom, Tyre, and Sidon to perform the works that would have led to the enduring repentance of each city, to a legacy of righteousness? Yes, He could have. But, He did not.

Give not that which is holy (the Gospel) to the dogs.
bibleman wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:33 am
Neither???

Now Roger,... would that not have wiped away the ministries of Jesus, John, Billy Graham, Rod Parsley, (historic Swaggart) and ALL TV ministries?

Didn't Jesus tell us: Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
I don't think you can make the case that any other the listed ministries were directed solely at Sodomites. If some seed fails to fall on good ground, that's acceptable. But, deliberately wasting seed on bad ground isn't wise. Not all sinners are bad ground, but some are. "A group of homosexuals who are abusing children sexually while forcing the children to smoke dope getting them high so there is not so much resistance" aren't good ground. Don't give that which is holy to the dogs.

Yes, Jesus came to call sinners to repentance, but He wasn't sent to all sinners (at that time). His mission was to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He was selective in carrying out His mission.



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bibleman
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Re: Non Christians

Post by bibleman » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:23 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:55 pm

I don't think you can make the case that any other the listed ministries were directed solely at Sodomites. If some seed fails to fall on good ground, that's acceptable. But, deliberately wasting seed on bad ground isn't wise. Not all sinners are bad ground, but some are. "A group of homosexuals who are abusing children sexually while forcing the children to smoke dope getting them high so there is not so much resistance" aren't good ground. Don't give that which is holy to the dogs.

Yes, Jesus came to call sinners to repentance, but He wasn't sent to all sinners (at that time). His mission was to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He was selective in carrying out His mission.
Roger,

"A group of homosexuals who are abusing children sexually while forcing the children to smoke dope getting them high so there is not so much resistance" aren't good ground. Don't give that which is holy to the dogs.

So you would not preach the Gospel to them or tell them to stop what they are doing and repent?


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: Non Christians

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:38 pm

bibleman wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:23 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:55 pm

I don't think you can make the case that any other the listed ministries were directed solely at Sodomites. If some seed fails to fall on good ground, that's acceptable. But, deliberately wasting seed on bad ground isn't wise. Not all sinners are bad ground, but some are. "A group of homosexuals who are abusing children sexually while forcing the children to smoke dope getting them high so there is not so much resistance" aren't good ground. Don't give that which is holy to the dogs.

Yes, Jesus came to call sinners to repentance, but He wasn't sent to all sinners (at that time). His mission was to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He was selective in carrying out His mission.
Roger,

"A group of homosexuals who are abusing children sexually while forcing the children to smoke dope getting them high so there is not so much resistance" aren't good ground. Don't give that which is holy to the dogs.

So you would not preach the Gospel to them or tell them to stop what they are doing and repent?
If they are in the act of abusing children sexually, I don't think preaching the gospel to them would be the first thing on my mind. I'd call the authorities.

Telling them to stop what they're doing and repent is definitely an option. I doubt that would be effective. There's not much hope for a rabid dog.



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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: Non Christians

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:52 pm

In another thread, Branham1965 made a couple of posts that might be better suited to this thread.

branham1965 wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:18 pm
I worked in the hair cutting/barber industry and i knew a few of these [homosexual lesbian ,bi,transgender etc] people.

They need the Lord Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior just like the straight pagans and God haters and everyone else.
They need deliverance from these things.And people have been delivered ,healed,saved and made whole through the Lord Jesus Christ.
branham1965 wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:59 pm
" Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?Be not deceived neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers,nor EFFEMINATE
NOR ABUSERS OF THEMSELVES WITH MANKIND,Nor thieves,nor covetous ,nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners shall inherit the kingdom of God.
And such were some of youbut ye are washed ye are sanctified ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God." See notes l,m,n,o,p

Only the stinking rotten foul devil could come up with such a notion that God does not want the homosexual to repent and be delivered and saved.WHAT RUBBISH!!!!
That homosexual lesbian ,bi,transgender etc hating is from the pits of hell. John 1:9,1 Timothy 2:4-5
2 Peter 3:9

Regarding your experience in the "hair cutting/barber industry" with "a few of these [homosexual lesbian ,bi,transgender etc] people..."

1. Did you tell many of them to repent?
2. Did you give them the Gospel?
3. Did any of them truly repent?
4. Did any of them truly get saved?


Having known a few and telling them to repent and believe the Gospel, I've never known of any that truly repented and gotten saved. I have a friend who's aunt was a evangelist and Christian counsellor for decades. She told him that she counselled many, but they inevitably return to perversion.

Can Jesus save them. Absolutely.
Does He always want to? No. But that doesn't mean that He never wanted to save them. Just that it is too late for some.

Some have exceeded their "space to repent" and He has given "them up unto uncleanness" and "vile affections" and given "them over to a reprobate mind." (Revelation 2:21; & Romans 1:24,26,& 28). Unless He reverses what He did to their mind that replaced their natural desires with unnatural desires (no, they aren't born that way), they cannot be helped.

Take the example of Nebuchadnezzar when God gave him a bestial mind for seven years. During that time, nothing could fix his mind or change his ways. Even he couldn't change his ways. And, no preacher could help him, either. Some folks are beyond help when the Lord's anger is kindled against them.

If He should change His mind concerning some, that is His prerogative. But, He did say not to give that which is holy to the dogs.



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luchnia
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Re: Non Christians

Post by luchnia » Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:04 am

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:52 pm
If He should change His mind concerning some, that is His prerogative. But, He did say not to give that which is holy to the dogs.
To me, discernment is critical when it comes to sharing the gospel and HOW to share it. I think there are many variables. Jesus was the example and we can see how He gave forth His message.

We know it is God's will that all men be saved, yet we know all men will not be and all men will not even hear. I have had questions about these things for many years now. I have felt that many are wasting their time in places they should not be. Their intent is genuine, yet there are still many questions that go unanswered.

That is simply an opinion of mine, yet I believe that scripture backs it up to a reasonable degree.


Word up!

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