Dake Bible Discussion BoardIs disputing and argument wrong? Paul did not think so.

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luchnia
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Is disputing and argument wrong? Paul did not think so.

Post by luchnia »

Acts 19:8-12 (KJV)
8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
9 But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.
10 And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.
11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:
12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

Can you imagine two straight years of daily arguing and debating God's word? Even three months in the synagogue seems much. We must be some real softies when it comes to speaking boldly disputing and persuading with God's word. Apparently Paul did not think it wrong to do what he did and he did it with great miracles from God!


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Hill Top
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Re: Is disputing and argument wrong? Paul did not think so.

Post by Hill Top »

luchnia wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:21 am
Acts 19:8-12 (KJV)
8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
9 But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.
10 And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.
11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:
12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

Can you imagine two straight years of daily arguing and debating God's word? Even three months in the synagogue seems much. We must be some real softies when it comes to speaking boldly disputing and persuading with God's word. Apparently Paul did not think it wrong to do what he did and he did it with great miracles from God!
Is this the same Paul that was told... "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. " (Acts 22:16) ?



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branham1965
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Re: Is disputing and argument wrong? Paul did not think so.

Post by branham1965 »

It can be wrong

when it involves fussing,strife ,bad blood,ill will ,cliques,and grudges.

In fact it may qualify as a work of the flesh.Galatians 5:19-21.

Paul condemned it to Timothy see 1 Timothy chapter 1 and chapter 6.

Also 2 Timothy 2:14-16.



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luchnia
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Re: Is disputing and argument wrong? Paul did not think so.

Post by luchnia »

branham1965 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:10 am
It can be wrong

when it involves fussing,strife ,bad blood,ill will ,cliques,and grudges.

In fact it may qualify as a work of the flesh.Galatians 5:19-21.

Paul condemned it to Timothy see 1 Timothy chapter 1 and chapter 6.

Also 2 Timothy 2:14-16.
Yes, if it has evil intent behind it, it is wrong. Paul always condemned evil, but never condemned refutation when it came to what was right in God's word. It is all about what is required for edification. Appealing to one's "feel good" emotions does little to the whole of edification.

Remember Paul's confrontation with Peter? From the confrontational aspect one might say that was evil, yet that led to Peter's vision. God respected Peter and gave him a vision of what was right and wrong about the matter. It appears that Paul's conscience was clear about it because of his intent toward what is right and true in his heart and wanted the right thing for Peter.

When a man truly cares and lifts up his brothers in Christ the intent is right because his desire for the person is God's desire. To argue for the sake of destroying another is wrong, but to argue for the sake of bringing the light of Christ is right.


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branham1965
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Re: Is disputing and argument wrong? Paul did not think so.

Post by branham1965 »

I think you might be missing my point.Peter and Paul were Apostles of Jesus Christ.

When there were issues in the early Church they went to the God ordained leaders of the Church cf Acts 15. In the order of the New Testament Church (Ephesians 4) is for those in Spiritual Authority - the Elders,the Presbytery and especially the Pastor are the ones to do the correcting and helping today.


Not laymen and unknown strangers on a Bible board.

The cults say the same thing about "helping" others.They are trying to save our souls ie they are all right and we are all wrong,we need to buy into their bill of goods etc.etc.



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Re: Is disputing and argument wrong? Paul did not think so.

Post by Hill Top »

Ironman wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:08 pm
God's true church by Finus Jennings Dake.

Jesus Christs church is not a building or a particular religious group with some special name? The new Testament Church, of which Jesus Christ is the head is a called out body of people of all nations who have been born again and who have lived a true Christian life and died in the faith. It also includes all those who are alive in Christ today. This present church is called the "ekklesia" of the New Testament times, called out of this world to evangelize the world in this age.

The church, in its largest signification is the whole company of redeemed in all ages, in Heaven and in Earth (Eph. 3:1-11; Heb. 12:23). It is the spiritual people who have been made members of the universial family of God. The church in this sense is the body of Christ, and it does not consist of saved and unsaved. It is not a group of individuals associated together for social and benevolent purposes, as seems to be on every hand in most worldly church gatherings. It is the body of people indwelt by God through the Holy Spirit and through whom God works in the world.
Thanks for the quote, Ironman.
This begs the question...Can people who are "indwelt by God through the Holy Spirit" commit theft, adultery, lies, murder or covetousness ?



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luchnia
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Re: Is disputing and argument wrong? Paul did not think so.

Post by luchnia »

branham1965 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:31 pm
I think you might be missing my point.Peter and Paul were Apostles of Jesus Christ.

When there were issues in the early Church they went to the God ordained leaders of the Church cf Acts 15. In the order of the New Testament Church (Ephesians 4) is for those in Spiritual Authority - the Elders,the Presbytery and especially the Pastor are the ones to do the correcting and helping today.


Not laymen and unknown strangers on a Bible board.

The cults say the same thing about "helping" others.They are trying to save our souls ie they are all right and we are all wrong,we need to buy into their bill of goods etc.etc.
You make some interesting points, however I think the layman table waiter Stephen would argue and challenge your points, not to mention the 120 at Pentacost and as many as were afar off that were called that received, and many, many scriptures such as 2 Tim 3:16, Acts 2, Romans chap 13, John chap 14, etc.

What is the call that makes a man an apostle of Jesus Christ or a workman rightly handling the Word? What is spiritual authority and whom does it belong? Which of today's pastors own the authority that comes from God? Which are God ordained? How do you determine such? Is it by judging their teaching and fruit?


Word up!

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branham1965
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Re: Is disputing and argument wrong? Paul did not think so.

Post by branham1965 »

Hello luchnia,

Stephen was under the authority of the Apostles and the Jerusalem Church.
Acts 6.He had signs and wonders in his ministry verse 6.
He was a Proof Producer.He had fruits.

He was the first martyr.He was a good man full of the Holy Ghost who had the face of an angel and the religious (spirited) leaders could not resist the Spirit or wisdom by which he spoke.

The 120 and all Bible believers are to be under spiritual authority.




luchnia wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:59 am
branham1965 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:31 pm
I think you might be missing my point.Peter and Paul were Apostles of Jesus Christ.

When there were issues in the early Church they went to the God ordained leaders of the Church cf Acts 15. In the order of the New Testament Church (Ephesians 4) is for those in Spiritual Authority - the Elders,the Presbytery and especially the Pastor are the ones to do the correcting and helping today.


Not laymen and unknown strangers on a Bible board.

The cults say the same thing about "helping" others.They are trying to save our souls ie they are all right and we are all wrong,we need to buy into their bill of goods etc.etc.
You make some interesting points, however I think the layman table waiter Stephen would argue and challenge your points, not to mention the 120 at Pentacost and as many as were afar off that were called that received, and many, many scriptures such as 2 Tim 3:16, Acts 2, Romans chap 13, John chap 14, etc.

What is the call that makes a man an apostle of Jesus Christ or a workman rightly handling the Word? What is spiritual authority and whom does it belong? Which of today's pastors own the authority that comes from God? Which are God ordained? How do you determine such? Is it by judging their teaching and fruit?



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luchnia
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Re: Is disputing and argument wrong? Paul did not think so.

Post by luchnia »

branham1965 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:50 am
Hello luchnia,

Stephen was under the authority of the Apostles and the Jerusalem Church.
Acts 6.He had signs and wonders in his ministry verse 6.
He was a Proof Producer.He had fruits.

He was the first martyr.He was a good man full of the Holy Ghost who had the face of an angel and the religious (spirited) leaders could not resist the Spirit or wisdom by which he spoke.

The 120 and all Bible believers are to be under spiritual authority.




luchnia wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:59 am
branham1965 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:31 pm
I think you might be missing my point.Peter and Paul were Apostles of Jesus Christ.

When there were issues in the early Church they went to the God ordained leaders of the Church cf Acts 15. In the order of the New Testament Church (Ephesians 4) is for those in Spiritual Authority - the Elders,the Presbytery and especially the Pastor are the ones to do the correcting and helping today.


Not laymen and unknown strangers on a Bible board.

The cults say the same thing about "helping" others.They are trying to save our souls ie they are all right and we are all wrong,we need to buy into their bill of goods etc.etc.
You make some interesting points, however I think the layman table waiter Stephen would argue and challenge your points, not to mention the 120 at Pentacost and as many as were afar off that were called that received, and many, many scriptures such as 2 Tim 3:16, Acts 2, Romans chap 13, John chap 14, etc.

What is the call that makes a man an apostle of Jesus Christ or a workman rightly handling the Word? What is spiritual authority and whom does it belong? Which of today's pastors own the authority that comes from God? Which are God ordained? How do you determine such? Is it by judging their teaching and fruit?
So you would say you have no spiritual authority from God unless under an apostle of God? I would hate to think your answer would be no, because that would mean that you would have to accept everything a man said that spoke from a pulpit that claimed he was ordained of God.

Because a man claims he is of God, does not make it so, right? I mean there are probably hundreds of thousands that make such claims and you would have to obey them.


Word up!

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branham1965
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Re: Is disputing and argument wrong? Paul did not think so.

Post by branham1965 »

I do not believe one has to be under an Apostle .


Reverend Dake gives the marks of a good Pastor in his notes on Saint John's gospel.


luchnia wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:01 am
branham1965 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:50 am
Hello luchnia,

Stephen was under the authority of the Apostles and the Jerusalem Church.
Acts 6.He had signs and wonders in his ministry verse 6.
He was a Proof Producer.He had fruits.

He was the first martyr.He was a good man full of the Holy Ghost who had the face of an angel and the religious (spirited) leaders could not resist the Spirit or wisdom by which he spoke.

The 120 and all Bible believers are to be under spiritual authority.




luchnia wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:59 am
branham1965 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:31 pm
I think you might be missing my point.Peter and Paul were Apostles of Jesus Christ.

When there were issues in the early Church they went to the God ordained leaders of the Church cf Acts 15. In the order of the New Testament Church (Ephesians 4) is for those in Spiritual Authority - the Elders,the Presbytery and especially the Pastor are the ones to do the correcting and helping today.


Not laymen and unknown strangers on a Bible board.

The cults say the same thing about "helping" others.They are trying to save our souls ie they are all right and we are all wrong,we need to buy into their bill of goods etc.etc.
You make some interesting points, however I think the layman table waiter Stephen would argue and challenge your points, not to mention the 120 at Pentacost and as many as were afar off that were called that received, and many, many scriptures such as 2 Tim 3:16, Acts 2, Romans chap 13, John chap 14, etc.

What is the call that makes a man an apostle of Jesus Christ or a workman rightly handling the Word? What is spiritual authority and whom does it belong? Which of today's pastors own the authority that comes from God? Which are God ordained? How do you determine such? Is it by judging their teaching and fruit?
So you would say you have no spiritual authority from God unless under an apostle of God? I would hate to think your answer would be no, because that would mean that you would have to accept everything a man said that spoke from a pulpit that claimed he was ordained of God.

Because a man claims he is of God, does not make it so, right? I mean there are probably hundreds of thousands that make such claims and you would have to obey them.



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