Dake Bible Discussion BoardWHAT THE NEW BIRTH IS

General Discussion Forum devoted to the study of God's Word in Honor of Finis J. Dake.
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Hill Top
Repent and Be Baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ Because of the Remission of Sins
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Re: WHAT THE NEW BIRTH IS

Post by Hill Top »

branham1965 wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:43 pm
Repentance and saving faith ALWAYS precedes water baptism.
We all agree with that, so don't be lured off the trail by a "red herring".

Don't you mean ..."Saving repentance and saving faith ALWAYS precedes water baptism" ?
No repentance...no salvation.



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branham1965
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Re: WHAT THE NEW BIRTH IS

Post by branham1965 »

I do not understand the point of all this going on and on and on and on.....


We see things differently.Why don't we go on to something else??
Hill Top wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:33 pm
Ironman wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:06 pm
The Word of God is abundantly clear that Baptism is only an ordinance, to be observed by each individual believer AFTER SALVATION, as a public profession of one's faith in Jesus Christ.
Where does scripture "make it perfectly clear"?
If it is "only an ordinance", it is one established by God by the words of Jesus Christ, Peter, Paul, Ananias, and the Ethiopian eunuch: among others.
Baptism is symbolic of Christ's death, burial and resurrection (Romans 6:4-5); and is our public profession of faith.
To you it is only symbolic.
To me, my death, burial, and resurrection, "with Christ", were reality.
No wonder you dismiss it so easily.
Mark 16:16, He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
HE THAT BELIEVETH AND IS BAPTIZED. JESUS DID NOT SAY HE WHO IS BAPTIZED THEN BELIEVETH SHALL BE SAVED.
No one gets baptized before they believe. People are drawn to Christ by the Father, they believe in Jesus and in Him who sent Him, then they get baptized, not before.
I don't know what triggered that reversed concept.
It wasn't mentioned by me.
Nothing can happen without faith in the words taught by our Lord and His apostles.
Water baptism is just a bath...or just an ordinance, to the unbelievers.
But to those who do have faith in what is taught by Jesus, Peter, and Paul, water baptism provides the way for the atoning blood of Christ to be applied to our bodies.
It sanctifies us, justifies us, and washes away our past sins.
It provides the manner of death of the old man, before a new man is raised from the grave "with Christ" to walk in newness of life.
That is the way folks are reborn of God's protective seed.

The result of our crucifixion with Christ allows our lives to correlate with the words of Romans 6:7.
It is written..."For he that is dead is freed from sin."
If you were not killed, with Christ, at water baptism, you can't be free from sin.
Last edited by branham1965 on Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:25 am, edited 1 time in total.



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branham1965
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
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Re: WHAT THE NEW BIRTH IS

Post by branham1965 »

Phil,

I think you know what i mean.


I am talking about real faith and real repentance.



We disagree on this subject.It will never be resolved.

Lets go on to something else.
Hill Top wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:38 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:43 pm
Repentance and saving faith ALWAYS precedes water baptism.
We all agree with that, so don't be lured off the trail by a "red herring".

Don't you mean ..."Saving repentance and saving faith ALWAYS precedes water baptism" ?
No repentance...no salvation.
Last edited by branham1965 on Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:28 am, edited 1 time in total.



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branham1965
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 2428
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Re: WHAT THE NEW BIRTH IS

Post by branham1965 »

branham1965 wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:09 am


I do not understand the point of all this going on and on and on and on.


We all seem to see these things a bit differently.Why don't we go on to something else??
Hill Top wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:33 pm
Ironman wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:06 pm
The Word of God is abundantly clear that Baptism is only an ordinance, to be observed by each individual believer AFTER SALVATION, as a public profession of one's faith in Jesus Christ.
Where does scripture "make it perfectly clear"?
If it is "only an ordinance", it is one established by God by the words of Jesus Christ, Peter, Paul, Ananias, and the Ethiopian eunuch: among others.
Baptism is symbolic of Christ's death, burial and resurrection (Romans 6:4-5); and is our public profession of faith.
To you it is only symbolic.
To me, my death, burial, and resurrection, "with Christ", were reality.
No wonder you dismiss it so easily.
Mark 16:16, He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
HE THAT BELIEVETH AND IS BAPTIZED. JESUS DID NOT SAY HE WHO IS BAPTIZED THEN BELIEVETH SHALL BE SAVED.
No one gets baptized before they believe. People are drawn to Christ by the Father, they believe in Jesus and in Him who sent Him, then they get baptized, not before.
I don't know what triggered that reversed concept.
It wasn't mentioned by me.
Nothing can happen without faith in the words taught by our Lord and His apostles.
Water baptism is just a bath...or just an ordinance, to the unbelievers.
But to those who do have faith in what is taught by Jesus, Peter, and Paul, water baptism provides the way for the atoning blood of Christ to be applied to our bodies.
It sanctifies us, justifies us, and washes away our past sins.
It provides the manner of death of the old man, before a new man is raised from the grave "with Christ" to walk in newness of life.
That is the way folks are reborn of God's protective seed.

The result of our crucifixion with Christ allows our lives to correlate with the words of Romans 6:7.
It is written..."For he that is dead is freed from sin."
If you were not killed, with Christ, at water baptism, you can't be free from sin.



Hill Top
Repent and Be Baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ Because of the Remission of Sins
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: WHAT THE NEW BIRTH IS

Post by Hill Top »

branham1965 wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:09 am
I do not understand the point of all this going on and on and on and on.....
We see things differently.Why don't we go on to something else??
Start a thread that doesn't involve salvation.
Nearly every thing we could ever post here will always come back to our strengths and abilities to remain faithful.
How we are perceived by those around us.
How we manifest Christ on earth now.

We may not agree with each other now, but I pray, everyday, that we will eventually.



Hill Top
Repent and Be Baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ Because of the Remission of Sins
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: WHAT THE NEW BIRTH IS

Post by Hill Top »

branham1965 wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:13 am
Phil,

I think you know what i mean.

I am talking about real faith and real repentance.

We disagree on this subject.It will never be resolved.

Lets go on to something else.
Believe it or not, I once felt the same way you do now.
As a catholic, I couldn't fathom the ability to always resist temptation.
But as my life dissolved in alcoholism and drug abuse, I grew ever more desperate for an escape.
God gracefully provided what catholicism couldn't.
I wasn't afraid to try the "doctrine which is according to Godliness"..."perfection"; as nothing else could even get close to "pretty good".
I witnessed the lives of the church members, the prophesies that came true, and the push back from the devilish that convinced me of the grace and power of God on earth NOW.



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luchnia
Shall Not He that Spared Not His Own Son Freely Give Us All Things?
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Re: WHAT THE NEW BIRTH IS

Post by luchnia »

Hill Top wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:59 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:13 am
Phil,

I think you know what i mean.

I am talking about real faith and real repentance.

We disagree on this subject.It will never be resolved.

Lets go on to something else.
Believe it or not, I once felt the same way you do now.
As a catholic, I couldn't fathom the ability to always resist temptation.
But as my life dissolved in alcoholism and drug abuse, I grew ever more desperate for an escape.
God gracefully provided what catholicism couldn't.
I wasn't afraid to try the "doctrine which is according to Godliness"..."perfection"; as nothing else could even get close to "pretty good".
I witnessed the lives of the church members, the prophesies that came true, and the push back from the devilish that convinced me of the grace and power of God on earth NOW.
I think the argument is about water baptism. It is not about living a godly life. I think we each know a saint lives a godly life and does not belong to satan.

It is interesting that you were once a catholic. I think there are others on the forum that were once catholic. I have been to a couple catholic churches over the years and each time I left I felt like I needed to wash the filth off of me.


Word up!

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branham1965
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
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Re: WHAT THE NEW BIRTH IS

Post by branham1965 »

Phil,

I think you are trying to proselytize and recruit people to your religion.

Count me out.


Hill Top wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:46 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:09 am
I do not understand the point of all this going on and on and on and on.....
We see things differently.Why don't we go on to something else??
Start a thread that doesn't involve salvation.
Nearly every thing we could ever post here will always come back to our strengths and abilities to remain faithful.
How we are perceived by those around us.
How we manifest Christ on earth now.

We may not agree with each other now, but I pray, everyday, that we will eventually.



Hill Top
Repent and Be Baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ Because of the Remission of Sins
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: WHAT THE NEW BIRTH IS

Post by Hill Top »

luchnia wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:49 am
I think the argument is about water baptism. It is not about living a godly life.
The issues are inseparable.
Without water baptism our past sins cannot be washed away, In every case but the thief on the cross who was told by Jesus, directly, that he would be in paradise with Christ.
Without water baptism we can't be immersed into Christ, His burial, His death, or be raise with Him to walk in newness of life.
Without water baptism, we would still be walking in the flesh instead of in the Spirit.
Without water baptism, we would never be freed from sin.



Hill Top
Repent and Be Baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ Because of the Remission of Sins
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: WHAT THE NEW BIRTH IS

Post by Hill Top »

branham1965 wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:34 pm
Phil,
I think you are trying to proselytize and recruit people to your religion.
Count me out.
Christianity isn't for everyone.
Loving God above all else isn't for everyone.



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