Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ WHAT THE NEW BIRTH IS

[branham1965]

REVEREND DAKE HAS TOTAL PREEMINENCE ON THIS BOARD.

HIS TEACHINGS FROM THE WORD OF GOD AFFIRM SALVATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH.
BAPTISMAL REGENERATION IS A DEMONIC FALSE DOCTRINE SEE DARB ,GODS PLAN FOR MAN,BIBLE TRUTHS UNMASKED.

THANK GOD FOR MY HERO REVEREND FINIS JENNIGS DAKE.

YOU TUBE IS FULL OF HIS WONDERFUL SERMONS AND TEACHINGS.

I WILL BE LOYAL TO HIM UNTIL I DIE.HE SAVED ME FROM THE WATCHTOWER CULT.I LOVE HIM VERY MUCH.

I agree and my guess is that there is simply a difference in the way one perceives a matter. To me what I consider strong reasoning, some would consider in a bad light. There is a difference between arguing and contention and strife.

Look at how Paul defended and argued the gospel. He might have been thrown to the side here for his much reasoning. Some would have said, "Thou art mad Paul".

There is such truth in God's words..."So then faith cometh by hearing, ..." (Rom 10:17)
Reading other people's thoughts can't convey the essence of the spoken word.

[Ironman]

BAPTISMAL REGENERATION is the unbiblical teaching that a person MUST be water baptized in order to go to Heaven. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Word of God is abundantly clear that Baptism is only an ordinance, to be observed by each individual believer AFTER salvation, as a public profession of one's faith in Jesus Christ. Baptism is symbolic of Christ's death, burial and resurrection (Romans 6:4-5); and is our public profession of faith.

Baptism is NOT a sacrament, i.e., there is no mystical power (efficacy) by being dunked in water. No grace is bestowed. Apart from water baptism's spiritual meaning, you are only getting wet. Being baptized doesn't make someone a believer, anymore than walking into a garage makes someone an automobile mechanic. Water baptism is symbolic of the Lord's death, burial, and resurrection (Romans 6:4-5). In water baptism, we are identifying ourselves with our Savior, signifying that we have already believed on Him.

Baptismal Regeneration is a lie of the Devil. Romans 4:5 plainly states... “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” How much clearer could the Bible be? A person's faith in Jesus Christ is COUNTED for righteousness. Salvation is of God, and not men. We are saved by HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS; and not our own self-righteousness... but to him that worketh not.
In view of such plain Scriptural teachings, how could anyone teach or believe that water baptism is required to be forgiven of one's sins? It is utter heresy!

[branham1965]

I agree with you Haz.

Thanks for the help.

[branham1965]

Amen mate.

BAPTISMAL REGENERATION is the unbiblical teaching that a person MUST be water baptized in order to go to Heaven. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Word of God is abundantly clear that Baptism is only an ordinance, to be observed by each individual believer AFTER salvation, as a public profession of one's faith in Jesus Christ. Baptism is symbolic of Christ's death, burial and resurrection (Romans 6:4-5); and is our public profession of faith.

Baptism is NOT a sacrament, i.e., there is no mystical power (efficacy) by being dunked in water. No grace is bestowed. Apart from water baptism's spiritual meaning, you are only getting wet. Being baptized doesn't make someone a believer, anymore than walking into a garage makes someone an automobile mechanic. Water baptism is symbolic of the Lord's death, burial, and resurrection (Romans 6:4-5). In water baptism, we are identifying ourselves with our Savior, signifying that we have already believed on Him.

Baptismal Regeneration is a lie of the Devil. Romans 4:5 plainly states... “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” How much clearer could the Bible be? A person's faith in Jesus Christ is COUNTED for righteousness. Salvation is of God, and not men. We are saved by HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS; and not our own self-righteousness... but to him that worketh not.
In view of such plain Scriptural teachings, how could anyone teach or believe that water baptism is required to be forgiven of one's sins? It is utter heresy!

[luchnia]

In view of such plain Scriptural teachings, how could anyone teach or believe that water baptism is required to be forgiven of one's sins? It is utter heresy!

I don't know the numbers, but I have run into a number of folks that believe that you must be water baptized to be saved. I know one man that is so adamant about it that he gets angry when God's word exposes it as error.

What I did find after spending some time learning what "water baptism for salvation" folks believe is that they were ignorant about a number of biblical subjects and that they had not taken the time to dig into all the various baptisms to understand what it all means.

It is the same with total depravity teaching, which is simply another form of ignorance and not fully learning the subject as is taught from God's word. You could also add legalism, OSAS, and many other doctrines to this mix. Water baptism is simply one of many.

I find OSASers much more challenging to reason with than water baptism folks. OSASers are so die-hard that they are like the hardest of substances to break. They refuse to believe that a born again child of God can fall and reject Jesus even though Jesus' own words taught that very thing. To me that is much more astounding than one believing in water baptism for salvation.

It is merely learning one side of the coin, marching headlong with that side and at some point the individual becomes so hardened that they refuse to see the other side of the coin. There remains no openness at that point.

[Hill Top]

REVEREND DAKE HAS TOTAL PREEMINENCE ON THIS BOARD.

HIS TEACHINGS FROM THE WORD OF GOD AFFIRM SALVATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH.
BAPTISMAL REGENERATION IS A DEMONIC FALSE DOCTRINE SEE DARB ,GODS PLAN FOR MAN,BIBLE TRUTHS UNMASKED.

Can you define the difference between regeneration and rebirth?
Both are a product of faith
Both provide a new identity.
Both are provided by the grace of God.
Frankly, I see them as the same thing.

So it must be the "baptismal" part that you don't like...for reasons I'm sure you would be kind enough to elaborate on.

[Hill Top]

In view of such plain Scriptural teachings, how could anyone teach or believe that water baptism is required to be forgiven of one's sins? It is utter heresy!

I don't know the numbers, but I have run into a number of folks that believe that you must be water baptized to be saved. I know one man that is so adamant about it that he gets angry when God's word exposes it as error.

What I did find after spending some time learning what "water baptism for salvation" folks believe is that they were ignorant about a number of biblical subjects and that they had not taken the time to dig into all the various baptisms to understand what it all means.

It is the same with total depravity teaching, which is simply another form of ignorance and not fully learning the subject as is taught from God's word. You could also add legalism, OSAS, and many other doctrines to this mix. Water baptism is simply one of many.

I find OSASers much more challenging to reason with than water baptism folks. OSASers are so die-hard that they are like the hardest of substances to break. They refuse to believe that a born again child of God can fall and reject Jesus even though Jesus' own words taught that very thing. To me that is much more astounding than one believing in water baptism for salvation.

It is merely learning one side of the coin, marching headlong with that side and at some point the individual becomes so hardened that they refuse to see the other side of the coin. There remains no openness at that point.

I know of one person who believes baptism is necessary for salvation.
It is written..."He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;..." (Mk 16:16) Jesus said these words.
I know of another who believed the same thing.
It is written..."And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16) Ananias of Damascus said these words.
I know of a third person who believed baptism was essential to salvation.
It is written..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38) Peter spoke these words.
I know of another person who believed baptism was important.
It is written..."And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?" (Acts 8:36) The Ethiopian eunuch spoke these words to Philip of the seven.
How come Philip didn't say "Where did you get the idea that baptism was important to anything?"

Why did Paul baptize the Philippian jailer" ? Or Crispus, Gaius, or the household of Stephanas of Corinth ?
How about the twelve at Ephesus?

I know that without water baptism, I would still be committing sin. For i would not have crucified the old man and been raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.

Can you all make the same claim without water baptism?

[Ironman]

In view of such plain Scriptural teachings, how could anyone teach or believe that water baptism is required to be forgiven of one's sins? It is utter heresy!

I don't know the numbers, but I have run into a number of folks that believe that you must be water baptized to be saved. I know one man that is so adamant about it that he gets angry when God's word exposes it as error.

What I did find after spending some time learning what "water baptism for salvation" folks believe is that they were ignorant about a number of biblical subjects and that they had not taken the time to dig into all the various baptisms to understand what it all means.

It is the same with total depravity teaching, which is simply another form of ignorance and not fully learning the subject as is taught from God's word. You could also add legalism, OSAS, and many other doctrines to this mix. Water baptism is simply one of many.

I find OSASers much more challenging to reason with than water baptism folks. OSASers are so die-hard that they are like the hardest of substances to break. They refuse to believe that a born again child of God can fall and reject Jesus even though Jesus' own words taught that very thing. To me that is much more astounding than one believing in water baptism for salvation.

It is merely learning one side of the coin, marching headlong with that side and at some point the individual becomes so hardened that they refuse to see the other side of the coin. There remains no openness at that point.

I know of one person who believes baptism is necessary for salvation.
It is written..."He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;..." (Mk 16:16) Jesus said these words.
I know of another who believed the same thing.
It is written..."And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16) Ananias of Damascus said these words.
I know of a third person who believed baptism was essential to salvation.
It is written..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38) Peter spoke these words.
I know of another person who believed baptism was important.
It is written..."And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?" (Acts 8:36) The Ethiopian eunuch spoke these words to Philip of the seven.
How come Philip didn't say "Where did you get the idea that baptism was important to anything?"

Why did Paul baptize the Philippian jailer" ? Or Crispus, Gaius, or the household of Stephanas of Corinth ?
How about the twelve at Ephesus?

I know that without water baptism, I would still be committing sin. For i would not have crucified the old man and been raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.

Can you all make the same claim without water baptism?

The Word of God is abundantly clear that Baptism is only an ordinance, to be observed by each individual believer AFTER SALVATION, as a public profession of one's faith in Jesus Christ. Baptism is symbolic of Christ's death, burial and resurrection (Romans 6:4-5); and is our public profession of faith.

Mark 16: 16, He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


HE THAT BELIEVETH AND IS BAPTIZED. JESUS DID NOT SAY HE WHO IS BAPTIZED THEN BELIEVETH SHALL BE SAVED.

No one gets baptized before they believe. People are drawn to Christ by the Father, they believe in Jesus and in Him who sent Him, then they get baptized, not before.

[branham1965]

Repentance and saving faith ALWAYS precedes water baptism.

In Dakes notes he expounds with profuse Scripture on this.

There is no example of commands to be baptized without faith or repentance.

REVEREND DAKE HAS TOTAL PREEMINENCE ON THIS BOARD.

HIS TEACHINGS FROM THE WORD OF GOD AFFIRM SALVATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH.
BAPTISMAL REGENERATION IS A FALSE DOCTRINE SEE DARB ,GODS PLAN FOR MAN,BIBLE TRUTHS UNMASKED.

THANK GOD FOR MY HERO REVEREND FINIS JENNINGS DAKE.

YOU TUBE IS FULL OF HIS WONDERFUL SERMONS AND TEACHINGS.

I WILL BE LOYAL TO HIM UNTIL I DIE.HE SAVED ME FROM THE WATCHTOWER CULT.I LOVE HIM VERY MUCH.

I agree and my guess is that there is simply a difference in the way one perceives a matter. To me what I consider strong reasoning, some would consider in a bad light. There is a difference between arguing and contention and strife.

Look at how Paul defended and argued the gospel. He might have been thrown to the side here for his much reasoning. Some would have said, "Thou art mad Paul".

There is such truth in God's words..."So then faith cometh by hearing, ..." (Rom 10:17)
Reading other people's thoughts can't convey the essence of the spoken word.

[Hill Top]

The Word of God is abundantly clear that Baptism is only an ordinance, to be observed by each individual believer AFTER SALVATION, as a public profession of one's faith in Jesus Christ.

Where does scripture "make it perfectly clear"?
If it is "only an ordinance", it is one established by God by the words of Jesus Christ, Peter, Paul, Ananias, and the Ethiopian eunuch: among others.

Baptism is symbolic of Christ's death, burial and resurrection (Romans 6:4-5); and is our public profession of faith.

To you it is only symbolic.
To me, my death, burial, and resurrection, "with Christ", were reality.
No wonder you dismiss it so easily.

Mark 16:16, He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
HE THAT BELIEVETH AND IS BAPTIZED. JESUS DID NOT SAY HE WHO IS BAPTIZED THEN BELIEVETH SHALL BE SAVED.
No one gets baptized before they believe. People are drawn to Christ by the Father, they believe in Jesus and in Him who sent Him, then they get baptized, not before.

I don't know what triggered that reversed concept.
It wasn't mentioned by me.
Nothing can happen without faith in the words taught by our Lord and His apostles.
Water baptism is just a bath...or just an ordinance, to the unbelievers.
But to those who do have faith in what is taught by Jesus, Peter, and Paul, water baptism provides the way for the atoning blood of Christ to be applied to our bodies.
It sanctifies us, justifies us, and washes away our past sins.
It provides the manner of death of the old man, before a new man is raised from the grave "with Christ" to walk in newness of life.
That is the way folks are reborn of God's protective seed.

The result of our crucifixion with Christ allows our lives to correlate with the words of Romans 6:7.
It is written..."For he that is dead is freed from sin."
If you were not killed, with Christ, at water baptism, you can't be free from sin.