Dake Bible Discussion BoardUnto what then were ye baptized

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: Unto what then were ye baptized

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:56 pm

Hill Top wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:48 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:53 pm
I believe Romans 1 still teaches that there are sins worthy of death. And, Jude and Peter make it plain that God still feels the same way that He did in the Old Testament concerning sins committed since Christ's resurrection.
Do you live without sin?
If the answer is "NO", the punishment you feel is just for "them" is also fitting for you.
If you want to deliver a death penalty for others, (Rom 1:32), you had better be unmentioned in verses 24 through 31.
1. "Do you live without sin?"
No.

2. "If the answer is "NO", the punishment you feel is just for "them" is also fitting for you."
No, as I have not committed abortion.

3. "If you want to deliver a death penalty for others, (Rom 1:32), you had better be unmentioned in verses 24 through 31."
Why?

Whether or not I do any of the things listed in verse 24-31 doesn't change the fact that a just society (assuming a fair trial, proper evidence, and an unbiased jury) would execute those that commit things that are worthy of death.


1 Timothy 4:9-11 King James Version
This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is THE SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN, specially of those that believe. These things command and teach.

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Re: Unto what then were ye baptized

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:02 pm

Hill Top wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:48 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:53 pm
If the laws of the land were godly, the law of the land would be death for such crimes.
Christians should not disagree with God.
Have you not heard?
We are not under the Law anymore !
Stoned any witches lately?
If you want a life that is OT, you must stone witches.

It is only the Giver of life who can take a life..
I am not asking for OT Law. However, we both agree that "the principles of right and wrong provided in the Old Testament hold true, today, unless they are countermanded or altered in the New Testament."

And, I am NOT against stoning those convicted of witchcraft after a fair trial by an unbiased jury with proper eveidence. A just society would do just that.

As to whether or not it is true that "only the Giver of life who can take a life," I would submit that the government does not bear the sword in vain.

Romans 13:3-4 King James Version
For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: for he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Governments are ordained by God to execute wrath upon those that do evil. Governments that fail to do so are in sin.


1 Timothy 4:9-11 King James Version
This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is THE SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN, specially of those that believe. These things command and teach.

Hill Top
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Re: Unto what then were ye baptized

Post by Hill Top » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:17 am

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:56 pm

1. "Do you live without sin?"
No.
Then you will suffer the second death.
2. "If the answer is "NO", the punishment you feel is just for "them" is also fitting for you."
No, as I have not committed abortion.
Adam only ate an apple and lost out on the garden of Eden.
You don't need to commit every kind of sin to be counted unworthy of eternal life.
3. "If you want to deliver a death penalty for others, (Rom 1:32), you had better be unmentioned in verses 24 through 31."
Why?
Because it is written..."The wages of sin is death". (Rom 6:23)
Whether or not I do any of the things listed in verse 24-31 doesn't change the fact that a just society (assuming a fair trial, proper evidence, and an unbiased jury) would execute those that commit things that are worthy of death.
Where on earth can you find a "just society"?
The power of life and death is not given to the sons of God.
Father has sole control over life.



Hill Top
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Re: Unto what then were ye baptized

Post by Hill Top » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:24 am

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:02 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:48 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:53 pm
If the laws of the land were godly, the law of the land would be death for such crimes.
Christians should not disagree with God.
Have you not heard?
We are not under the Law anymore !
Stoned any witches lately?
If you want a life that is OT, you must stone witches.

It is only the Giver of life who can take a life..
I am not asking for OT Law. However, we both agree that "the principles of right and wrong provided in the Old Testament hold true, today, unless they are countermanded or altered in the New Testament."

And, I am NOT against stoning those convicted of witchcraft after a fair trial by an unbiased jury with proper eveidence. A just society would do just that.

As to whether or not it is true that "only the Giver of life who can take a life," I would submit that the government does not bear the sword in vain.

Romans 13:3-4 King James Version
For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: for he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Governments are ordained by God to execute wrath upon those that do evil. Governments that fail to do so are in sin.
I guess my point is that we are not of this world, and shouldn't be lending our voice to those who are still of this world.
It is written..."Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence." (John 18:36)
Are you of this world? Or are you of the kingdom of God?



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branham1965
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Re: Unto what then were ye baptized

Post by branham1965 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:18 am

If we read in Acts 8 Phillip preaches Christ to the Samaritans v5

In verse 12 men and women heard,believed the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ and were baptized.

verse 13 says Simon believed and was baptized.

In verse 19-20 he asks for the power to lay hands on people like the apostles.

Peter then severely rebukes him and tells him to repent and pray God for mercy.
Simon asks for their prayers.

I gave other examples like the penitent fornicator in 1 and 2 Corinthians.

The idea that a Christian who has believed and been baptized cannot fail or sin or need mercy is not biblical See 1 John 1:7-8-Ch.2:1-2.

This sinless perfect water walking believer seems to be the accepted odd theory on here by some.It is the nothing but error and the speculation of false teachers of old leading people after them in darkness.



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luchnia
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Re: Unto what then were ye baptized

Post by luchnia » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:28 am

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:56 pm
Whether or not I do any of the things listed in verse 24-31 doesn't change the fact that a just society (assuming a fair trial, proper evidence, and an unbiased jury) would execute those that commit things that are worthy of death.
Something came to mind while reading your post and it was what Jesus did not tell the soldiers when He was questioned by them. The fact that He did not tell them to stop being soldiers, but told them basically to do what is right by not extorting people and don't accuse falsely.

Jesus knew soldiers would have to kill people and He did not tell them once to stop killing people, yet why? Why would Jesus not tell them to stop killing? He was asked directly. There is a difference between killing under justice and righteousness than murdering under darkness of an evil heart.

When Jesus told His disciples to take swords on their journey in case they were attacked and robbed, would it have been justice if a robber had been killed by one of the disciples?


Word up!

Hill Top
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Re: Unto what then were ye baptized

Post by Hill Top » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:07 pm

branham1965 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:18 am
If we read in Acts 8 Phillip preaches Christ to the Samaritans v5

In verse 12 men and women heard,believed the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ and were baptized.

verse 13 says Simon believed and was baptized.

In verse 19-20 he asks for the power to lay hands on people like the apostles.

Peter then severely rebukes him and tells him to repent and pray God for mercy.
Simon asks for their prayers.

I gave other examples like the penitent fornicator in 1 and 2 Corinthians.

The idea that a Christian who has believed and been baptized cannot fail or sin or need mercy is not biblical See 1 John 1:7-8-Ch.2:1-2.

This sinless perfect water walking believer seems to be the accepted odd theory on here by some.It is the nothing but error and the speculation of false teachers of old leading people after them in darkness.
Belief and baptism are useless to the unrepentant.
If you think living without sin is living in darkness...you are in the darkness.
It is written..."The way of the wicked is darkness..." (Pro 4:19)
It is also written..."Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Tim 2:19)
It is also written..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
It is also written..."We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:18)
So we have three different apostles that you label "false teachers"
How about Jesus' words?
He said the truth will free you from committing sin, in John 8:32-34.
Is He also a false teacher?

BTW, one "L" in Philip.



Hill Top
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Re: Unto what then were ye baptized

Post by Hill Top » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:16 pm

luchnia wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:28 am
Something came to mind while reading your post and it was what Jesus did not tell the soldiers when He was questioned by them. The fact that He did not tell them to stop being soldiers, but told them basically to do what is right by not extorting people and don't accuse falsely.

Jesus knew soldiers would have to kill people and He did not tell them once to stop killing people, yet why? Why would Jesus not tell them to stop killing? He was asked directly. There is a difference between killing under justice and righteousness than murdering under darkness of an evil heart.

When Jesus told His disciples to take swords on their journey in case they were attacked and robbed, would it have been justice if a robber had been killed by one of the disciples?
I think you are alluding to John the Baptist's meeting with the soldiers, in Luke 3:14.
John told them..."Do violence to no man..."

There is no justified killing in the NT.
"Love your neighbor as you love yourself"...is the Law we are under now.



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luchnia
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Re: Unto what then were ye baptized

Post by luchnia » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:51 pm

Hill Top wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:16 pm
luchnia wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:28 am
Something came to mind while reading your post and it was what Jesus did not tell the soldiers when He was questioned by them. The fact that He did not tell them to stop being soldiers, but told them basically to do what is right by not extorting people and don't accuse falsely.

Jesus knew soldiers would have to kill people and He did not tell them once to stop killing people, yet why? Why would Jesus not tell them to stop killing? He was asked directly. There is a difference between killing under justice and righteousness than murdering under darkness of an evil heart.

When Jesus told His disciples to take swords on their journey in case they were attacked and robbed, would it have been justice if a robber had been killed by one of the disciples?
I think you are alluding to John the Baptist's meeting with the soldiers, in Luke 3:14.
John told them..."Do violence to no man..."

There is no justified killing in the NT.
"Love your neighbor as you love yourself"...is the Law we are under now.
If you think that is the case then then Jesus will fail miserably when He carries out justice and judgment according to the NT.


Word up!

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Re: Unto what then were ye baptized

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:31 pm

Hill Top wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:59 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:59 pm
I don't think you'll actually find Jesus telling us to pray for those that the man after God's own heart prayed against. I believe Jesus is the same now as He was then.
Would you say that Stephen was murdered?
Absolutely. I would definitely say that Stephen was murdered.


1 Timothy 4:9-11 King James Version
This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is THE SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN, specially of those that believe. These things command and teach.

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