Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ The passage all liberals hate!

[Justaned]

If we stand back and look at the Peter who did his testing benefit? God? No Jesus had already accurately prophesied what Peter would do. Who then? Well Peter learned his true mettle and repented and became a very strong servant of the Lord. And any that read the story and let it go into their heart learns and grows. So the test was for Peter and for us. God already knew the answer.

Same is true for Abraham. Up until this time we see Abraham lying twice about Sarah to preserve his life. Entering into covenants with pagans over the well, sleeping with Hagar and various other short comings but the minute his faith was really tested and he succeeded all testimony about Abraham is positive.

So who did the testing help God, who had already made a covenant with Abraham and really could not back out of it? Or Abraham to learn of his mettle and to stay faithful in the that covenant. Also it benefitted us again to see faith that strong being tested and standing.

Without testing faith is a just a word. When faith is tested it becomes real or not. God knows our faith because God knows everything there is to know about us. It is us that don't know about our faith and we won't until we are made to stand or fall on it.

[bibleman]

If we stand back and look at the Peter who did his testing benefit? God? No Jesus had already accurately prophesied what Peter would do. Who then? Well Peter learned his true mettle and repented and became a very strong servant of the Lord. And any that read the story and let it go into their heart learns and grows. So the test was for Peter and for us. God already knew the answer.

Same is true for Abraham. Up until this time we see Abraham lying twice about Sarah to preserve his life. Entering into covenants with pagans over the well, sleeping with Hagar and various other short comings but the minute his faith was really tested and he succeeded all testimony about Abraham is positive.

So who did the testing help God, who had already made a covenant with Abraham and really could not back out of it? Or Abraham to learn of his mettle and to stay faithful in the that covenant. Also it benefitted us again to see faith that strong being tested and standing.

Without testing faith is a just a word. When faith is tested it becomes real or not. God knows our faith because God knows everything there is to know about us. It is us that don't know about our faith and we won't until we are made to stand or fall on it.

Ed,

What you wrote flies in the face of God's WORD!

Genesis 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

Regardless of your man-made attempts to discredit the Word of God, I still believe God.

God did what HE said HE would do. HE went down to see and then based on what he saw HE KNEW!

End of story, WHY? Because the BIBLE SAYS SO !

[cpbeller]

Ed, when God stopped Abraham from sacrificing Isaac, God did not say, "For now YOU know." God said, "For now I know". If it was so Abraham would know what he would do in that case, then God would have said "For now you know".

No matter how you try to spin this, no matter what you try to say to change it to mean something else...what is written is written. You are tap-dancing trying to make those words mean something that they do not. But the only way what you are saying would be truth would be for God to have not been truthful in what he said to Abraham.

If God tested Abraham for Abraham's sake (only), then God would have said to him, "For now YOU know". Or if the testing was for our sake (only), then God would have said, "For now everyone who will read this will know." But God did not say that, either statement. He said, very clearly, "For now I know..."

How could it be that God, who knows the ending from the beginning, but yet did not know what Abraham would choose...I do not know. He is the One that is God. And really, only He knows how He can know all things, yet not know what Abraham would do. But the scriptures say it. You continue to try to say that God did not mean what He said, or whatever it is you are trying to say. So, either God mis-spoke, or God was not truthful. For what you are saying to be true, those are the only two things. But, you try to say God was truthful, and God did not mis-speak, while at the same time saying that what God said is not what God meant...I honestly cannot keep up with you.

The fact of the matter is this: What was written, was written. And you cannot change that no matter how much you try to make ppl see it your way...

[victoryword]

When I was struggling to accept the Open Theist position many years ago (I rejected it when I first read it in GPFM) I think it was the lame anti-biblical arguments of the Open Theist critics that pushed me to the OV side.

[bibleman]

When I was struggling to accept the Open Theist position many years ago (I rejected it when I first read it in GPFM) I think it was the lame anti-biblical arguments of the Open Theist critics that pushed me to the OV side.

Am I having a brain lapse here?

I of course know the Open Theist positions but what is the OV side?

[victoryword]

When I was struggling to accept the Open Theist position many years ago (I rejected it when I first read it in GPFM) I think it was the lame anti-biblical arguments of the Open Theist critics that pushed me to the OV side.

Am I having a brain lapse here?

I of course know the Open Theist positions but what is the OV side?

Open View

[Justaned]

I guess my question to all of those that say God is limited and unknowing of anything is why is you can't tell when God is using a figure of speech. If God never declared himself to be all knowing. If God hadn't created time. If God was only equal to man then I would say yes you must read those verses literally. But even Dake said you shouldn't read something as to be taken literal if it creates a contradiction with the rest of scripture.
So while you are puzzled I'm an even more profoundly puzzled. You see my position elevates God to a superior being to man. Your position brings God down to having the same problems man does. Does that really sound like an almighty God to you?

[Rocky]

Ed no offence, why is it a figure a speech when you disagree with it but it is not if you agree with it? Just take it for what it says would not that be easier? To me it seems you like to dismiss plain scripture at times to have it fit what you want it to mean but I could be wrong Maybe study this in a DARB or GPFM to get a better understanding, because you are dismissing plain scripture. You are denying something shown in the bible to fit your opinions. Every time someone shows you scripture you go on a rant that we are making God out to be man, all people are doing is quoting the bible so in a way the problem is yours not ours.

[bibleman]

When I was struggling to accept the Open Theist position many years ago (I rejected it when I first read it in GPFM) I think it was the lame anti-biblical arguments of the Open Theist critics that pushed me to the OV side.

Am I having a brain lapse here?

I of course know the Open Theist positions but what is the OV side?

Open View

Of course a real brain lapse for sure. Pinnock would kill me for sure.

[Justaned]

Ed no offence, why is it a figure a speech when you disagree with it but it is not if you agree with it? Just take it for what it says would not that be easier? To me it seems you like to dismiss plain scripture at times to have it fit what you want it to mean but I could be wrong Maybe study this in a DARB or GPFM to get a better understanding, because you are dismissing plain scripture. You are denying something shown in the bible to fit your opinions. Every time someone shows you scripture you go on a rant that we are making God out to be man, all people are doing is quoting the bible so in a way the problem is yours not ours.

Rocky Scripture never lies nor does it contradict itself.
Common Sense dictates it has to be a figure of speech.
God has declared HImself all knowing.
Now God says He needs to see.
Which is God lied and He really isn't all knowing OR
It is a figure of speech that God is using?
God can't lie so it has to be a figure of speech.

I'm not making stuff up I'm simply refusing to ignore one scripture to make another work as man said it should.