Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ another covenant of grace; it was the Abrahamic covenant

[bibleman]

There was another covenant of grace; it was the Abrahamic covenant (Genesis 12:1-4).

Although Abraham failed to obey God many times, God continued to show him mercy (Genesis 12:12, 13; Genesis 13:1; Genesis 14:20; Genesis 15:1-18; Romans 4:2, 3).
God counted Abraham righteous because he believed God.

Abraham wasn’t judged for his sins; instead, he constantly received the unmerited favor of God.

http://www.creflodollarministries.org/B ... px?id=1296

What are the holes in this thinking?

Where is Creflo missing it?

[victoryword]

Pastor Dollar is missing it by IMPLICATION!!! He is committing a logical fallacy:

1. Abraham failed but was never judged for his sins.
2. You can fail to obey and never be judged for your sins because you are under a similar covenant of grace as the Abrahamic covenant.

This logical fallcy ignores numerous Old Testament passages:

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? (Rom. 6:16)

But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. (1 Cor. 11:28-32)

For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? (1 Pet. 4:17)

[bibleman]

Pastor Dollar is missing it by IMPLICATION!!! He is committing a logical fallacy:

1. Abraham failed but was never judged for his sins.
2. You can fail to obey and never be judged for your sins because you are under a similar covenant of grace as the Abrahamic covenant.

This logical fallcy ignores numerous Old Testament passages:

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? (Rom. 6:16)

But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. (1 Cor. 11:28-32)

For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? (1 Pet. 4:17)

[Rocky]

Wow, holes ever where. This is almost right out of Joseph princes book "Unmerited favor". But Any way

James 2:21-24: Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

To me Leon this Hyper grace theology tries to separate Faith and works for the believe. But this is unbiblical to do so, But I could be wrong. Its almost a version of OSAS?

[bibleman]

Wow, holes ever where. This is almost right out of Joseph princes book "Unmerited favor". But Any way

James 2:21-24: Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

To me Leon this Hyper grace theology tries to separate Faith and works for the believe. But this is unbiblical to do so, But I could be wrong. Its almost a version of OSAS?

And... In Creflo's case he KNOWS that faith without works is dead.

But in his hyper-grace teaching his mind is closed to that or I hate to say it... but deceived.

[victoryword]

When I used to hang out over at Christian Forums, I saw that the Faith MOvement was becoming divided over the Hyper-grace teaching, especially espoused strongly by some of our brothers from Singapore. However, I always thought that this was afringe movement. I began to felt that some were taking some of Kenyon's OSAS teachings to an extreme since most of them profess a love for his writings (as do I). I never thought that this teaching would be embraced by any prominent leaders of the faith movement.

Yet with the rise in fame of Joseph Prince along with already established leaders such as Dollar and Womack there is definitely a division taking place. I know that NOrvel Hayes daughter was on Sid Roth's show some months ago and she was relating to Sid how God had given her a vision showing her numerous people, with Bibles in their hands were just walking straight into hell due to this teaching.

[Justaned]

This started when the church stopped teaching HOLINESS.

When you are living a holy life grace is there.

When you are living a sinful life grace is needed to convince yourself you are saved.

I see a person talking Hyper grace I see a person that is trying to cover his sin!

Let me add when I see a person resist making Jesus Lord of their life I see a person excusing his sin!

Don't want to go record as being vague here.