Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Halloween

[Justaned]

Rocky.
if you like hanging out in graveyards or things like that. its a very safe place.no one in there is going to harm a soull

Would this be considered an Ad hominem? Billy this is not how to discuss or debate things. Ed does this as well but not as bad. You see Billy "Ad hominem" is a debate term, Its a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person. which is second worse way to debate next to "name Calling" .

Why did you feel it necessary to take a cheap shot at me?

I don't think you will find many people that view Billy's post an Ad Hominen attack on you. Perhaps a weak attempt at humor but certainly no attack on you.

I also don't think you will find many Christians that would agree that hanging out in grave yards in the dead of night as being normal.

I am sorry Ed if you felt like I was taking cheap shots at you, I have a weird sense of humor and didn't mean you any harm. And the "Ad Hominen" thing was just a joke towards Billy bro. And I don't hang around graveyards at night lol. But I do run around at night in a pair of black pajamas snatching puppies so I can sacrifice them to the peanut butter king.. I was just trying to joke about all of the prejudices that are in the church with alternative sub cultures. Maybe that's what this thread has turned in to, or maybe that is what I wanted it to turn in to. The church has become in my opinion an entity that only loves, only accepts according to outer appearance. My wife and I had been ostracized because she has tattoos and piercings as well as my self, accept I don't have tattoos because I am a total sissy. I found a fellow church of rejects, but its 50 miles away so we only get to go twice a month, do to gas. I believe a lot of the churches are evil and I see Satan in them more so then the issues we have discussed in this thread. My wife and I have been through a lot with so called Christians. Being kicked out of a church, and 4 church splits in 6 years will make anyone a little cynical. I think that's why God is going to use these subcultures and using Christians that don't look normal. Some of the meanest Christian I have ever met are in my area, they hate us and anyone that does not look like them, To me that is satanic.
1 Sa 16:7 "for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart"

Rocky
I must admit I have a definite aversion to tattoos and piercings. To me tattoos are identical to graffiti on a building. With God being the architect that constructed the building. A piercing to me is a remodel gone bad of a building that God designed.

Tattoos and piercings also speak to me of the character of the person. When I see a person that has a tattoo or piercing other than a normal pierced ear, I view that person as a person that makes life effecting decisions with little or no thought of the consequences. That is definitely not someone I would ever rely on.

[Rocky]

Rocky.
if you like hanging out in graveyards or things like that. its a very safe place.no one in there is going to harm a soull

Would this be considered an Ad hominem? Billy this is not how to discuss or debate things. Ed does this as well but not as bad. You see Billy "Ad hominem" is a debate term, Its a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person. which is second worse way to debate next to "name Calling" .

Why did you feel it necessary to take a cheap shot at me?

I don't think you will find many people that view Billy's post an Ad Hominen attack on you. Perhaps a weak attempt at humor but certainly no attack on you.

I also don't think you will find many Christians that would agree that hanging out in grave yards in the dead of night as being normal.

I am sorry Ed if you felt like I was taking cheap shots at you, I have a weird sense of humor and didn't mean you any harm. And the "Ad Hominen" thing was just a joke towards Billy bro. And I don't hang around graveyards at night lol. But I do run around at night in a pair of black pajamas snatching puppies so I can sacrifice them to the peanut butter king.. I was just trying to joke about all of the prejudices that are in the church with alternative sub cultures. Maybe that's what this thread has turned in to, or maybe that is what I wanted it to turn in to. The church has become in my opinion an entity that only loves, only accepts according to outer appearance. My wife and I had been ostracized because she has tattoos and piercings as well as my self, accept I don't have tattoos because I am a total sissy. I found a fellow church of rejects, but its 50 miles away so we only get to go twice a month, do to gas. I believe a lot of the churches are evil and I see Satan in them more so then the issues we have discussed in this thread. My wife and I have been through a lot with so called Christians. Being kicked out of a church, and 4 church splits in 6 years will make anyone a little cynical. I think that's why God is going to use these subcultures and using Christians that don't look normal. Some of the meanest Christian I have ever met are in my area, they hate us and anyone that does not look like them, To me that is satanic.
1 Sa 16:7 "for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart"

Rocky
I must admit I have a definite aversion to tattoos and piercings. To me tattoos are identical to graffiti on a building. With God being the architect that constructed the building. A piercing to me is a remodel gone bad of a building that God designed.

Tattoos and piercings also speak to me of the character of the person. When I see a person that has a tattoo or piercing other than a normal pierced ear, I view that person as a person that makes life effecting decisions with little or no thought of the consequences. That is definitely not someone I would ever rely on.

"normal pierced ear" lol.
Is not that just Judging? You are just trying to get me to argue with you. But let me say I am glad I don't have to know you in real life. You seem like a 21 century Pharisee to me, sorry I call them like I see them. You spread false doctrine on this forum and then try to judge me be? Have your religion, I do not want any part of your version of Christianity. Maybe one day I can be as good as you lol.. Man you are a very discouraging person.

[Justaned]

Rocky.
if you like hanging out in graveyards or things like that. its a very safe place.no one in there is going to harm a soull

Would this be considered an Ad hominem? Billy this is not how to discuss or debate things. Ed does this as well but not as bad. You see Billy "Ad hominem" is a debate term, Its a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person. which is second worse way to debate next to "name Calling" .

Why did you feel it necessary to take a cheap shot at me?

I don't think you will find many people that view Billy's post an Ad Hominen attack on you. Perhaps a weak attempt at humor but certainly no attack on you.

I also don't think you will find many Christians that would agree that hanging out in grave yards in the dead of night as being normal.

I am sorry Ed if you felt like I was taking cheap shots at you, I have a weird sense of humor and didn't mean you any harm. And the "Ad Hominen" thing was just a joke towards Billy bro. And I don't hang around graveyards at night lol. But I do run around at night in a pair of black pajamas snatching puppies so I can sacrifice them to the peanut butter king.. I was just trying to joke about all of the prejudices that are in the church with alternative sub cultures. Maybe that's what this thread has turned in to, or maybe that is what I wanted it to turn in to. The church has become in my opinion an entity that only loves, only accepts according to outer appearance. My wife and I had been ostracized because she has tattoos and piercings as well as my self, accept I don't have tattoos because I am a total sissy. I found a fellow church of rejects, but its 50 miles away so we only get to go twice a month, do to gas. I believe a lot of the churches are evil and I see Satan in them more so then the issues we have discussed in this thread. My wife and I have been through a lot with so called Christians. Being kicked out of a church, and 4 church splits in 6 years will make anyone a little cynical. I think that's why God is going to use these subcultures and using Christians that don't look normal. Some of the meanest Christian I have ever met are in my area, they hate us and anyone that does not look like them, To me that is satanic.
1 Sa 16:7 "for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart"

Rocky
I must admit I have a definite aversion to tattoos and piercings. To me tattoos are identical to graffiti on a building. With God being the architect that constructed the building. A piercing to me is a remodel gone bad of a building that God designed.

Tattoos and piercings also speak to me of the character of the person. When I see a person that has a tattoo or piercing other than a normal pierced ear, I view that person as a person that makes life effecting decisions with little or no thought of the consequences. That is definitely not someone I would ever rely on.

"normal pierced ear" lol.
Is not that just Judging? You are just trying to get me to argue with you. But let me say I am glad I don't have to know you in real life. You seem like a 21 century Pharisee to me, sorry I call them like I see them. You spread false doctrine on this forum and then try to judge me be? Have your religion, I do not any part of your version of Christianity. Maybe one day I can be as good as you lol..

I was honest and up front I openly admit I have an aversion to tattoos and piercings. I wasn't being Pharisaical, that was my opinion based not on religion but observation. I don't know someone's salvation and I can't judge them but I do know what experience has taught me what to expect about their character. If that opinion is later proven wrong then so be it but that is my initial opinion of the person.

[Rocky]

Rocky.
if you like hanging out in graveyards or things like that. its a very safe place.no one in there is going to harm a soull

Would this be considered an Ad hominem? Billy this is not how to discuss or debate things. Ed does this as well but not as bad. You see Billy "Ad hominem" is a debate term, Its a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person. which is second worse way to debate next to "name Calling" .

Why did you feel it necessary to take a cheap shot at me?

I don't think you will find many people that view Billy's post an Ad Hominen attack on you. Perhaps a weak attempt at humor but certainly no attack on you.

I also don't think you will find many Christians that would agree that hanging out in grave yards in the dead of night as being normal.

I am sorry Ed if you felt like I was taking cheap shots at you, I have a weird sense of humor and didn't mean you any harm. And the "Ad Hominen" thing was just a joke towards Billy bro. And I don't hang around graveyards at night lol. But I do run around at night in a pair of black pajamas snatching puppies so I can sacrifice them to the peanut butter king.. I was just trying to joke about all of the prejudices that are in the church with alternative sub cultures. Maybe that's what this thread has turned in to, or maybe that is what I wanted it to turn in to. The church has become in my opinion an entity that only loves, only accepts according to outer appearance. My wife and I had been ostracized because she has tattoos and piercings as well as my self, accept I don't have tattoos because I am a total sissy. I found a fellow church of rejects, but its 50 miles away so we only get to go twice a month, do to gas. I believe a lot of the churches are evil and I see Satan in them more so then the issues we have discussed in this thread. My wife and I have been through a lot with so called Christians. Being kicked out of a church, and 4 church splits in 6 years will make anyone a little cynical. I think that's why God is going to use these subcultures and using Christians that don't look normal. Some of the meanest Christian I have ever met are in my area, they hate us and anyone that does not look like them, To me that is satanic.
1 Sa 16:7 "for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart"

Rocky
I must admit I have a definite aversion to tattoos and piercings. To me tattoos are identical to graffiti on a building. With God being the architect that constructed the building. A piercing to me is a remodel gone bad of a building that God designed.

Tattoos and piercings also speak to me of the character of the person. When I see a person that has a tattoo or piercing other than a normal pierced ear, I view that person as a person that makes life effecting decisions with little or no thought of the consequences. That is definitely not someone I would ever rely on.

"normal pierced ear" lol.
Is not that just Judging? You are just trying to get me to argue with you. But let me say I am glad I don't have to know you in real life. You seem like a 21 century Pharisee to me, sorry I call them like I see them. You spread false doctrine on this forum and then try to judge me be? Have your religion, I do not any part of your version of Christianity. Maybe one day I can be as good as you lol..

I was honest and up front I openly admit I have an aversion to tattoos and piercings. I wasn't being Pharisaical, that was my opinion based not on religion but observation. I don't know someone's salvation and I can't judge them but I do know what experience has taught me what to expect about their character. If that opinion is later proven wrong then so be it but that in my initial opinion of the person.

Well that is called judging Ed. You can judge some one even if you are not judging someone's salvation, and this is condemned in the bible.. Sorry but you are very wrong on this..

[Justaned]

I was honest and up front I openly admit I have an aversion to tattoos and piercings. I wasn't being Pharisaical, that was my opinion based not on religion but observation. I don't know someone's salvation and I can't judge them but I do know what experience has taught me what to expect about their character. If that opinion is later proven wrong then so be it but that in my initial opinion of the person.

Well that is called judging Ed. You can judge some one even if you are not judging someone's salvation, and this is condemned in the bible.. Sorry but you are very wrong on this..

So you are saying if someone is coming at you with a murderous look on their face you are to stand your ground reach out your hand of friendship? Are our instincts given to us for a reason?
If a guy has drawn pistol am I wrong to assume he may mean me some harm?
I don't think that is what the Bible is saying when it says we are not to judge.

[branham1965]

i have a big bulldog on my right calf.i got him in 1997.and a scared rabbit on my left one. just kidding.
the new generation of believers has tatoos and wears different darker clothes.i dont judge you Rocky.you are a brother.i heard a woman of God i respect very much talks about this Iverna Tompkin's.and as far as REVED he is old school holiness.many old schoolpreachers dont go for that stuff.no disrespect meant REVED.

Rocky.
if you like hanging out in graveyards or things like that. its a very safe place.no one in there is going to harm a soull

Would this be considered an Ad hominem? Billy this is not how to discuss or debate things. Ed does this as well but not as bad. You see Billy "Ad hominem" is a debate term, Its a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person. which is second worse way to debate next to "name Calling" .

Why did you feel it necessary to take a cheap shot at me?

I don't think you will find many people that view Billy's post an Ad Hominen attack on you. Perhaps a weak attempt at humor but certainly no attack on you.

I also don't think you will find many Christians that would agree that hanging out in grave yards in the dead of night as being normal.

I am sorry Ed if you felt like I was taking cheap shots at you, I have a weird sense of humor and didn't mean you any harm. And the "Ad Hominen" thing was just a joke towards Billy bro. And I don't hang around graveyards at night lol. But I do run around at night in a pair of black pajamas snatching puppies so I can sacrifice them to the peanut butter king.. I was just trying to joke about all of the prejudices that are in the church with alternative sub cultures. Maybe that's what this thread has turned in to, or maybe that is what I wanted it to turn in to. The church has become in my opinion an entity that only loves, only accepts according to outer appearance. My wife and I had been ostracized because she has tattoos and piercings as well as my self, accept I don't have tattoos because I am a total sissy. I found a fellow church of rejects, but its 50 miles away so we only get to go twice a month, do to gas. I believe a lot of the churches are evil and I see Satan in them more so then the issues we have discussed in this thread. My wife and I have been through a lot with so called Christians. Being kicked out of a church, and 4 church splits in 6 years will make anyone a little cynical. I think that's why God is going to use these subcultures and using Christians that don't look normal. Some of the meanest Christian I have ever met are in my area, they hate us and anyone that does not look like them, To me that is satanic.
1 Sa 16:7 "for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart"

Rocky
I must admit I have a definite aversion to tattoos and piercings. To me tattoos are identical to graffiti on a building. With God being the architect that constructed the building. A piercing to me is a remodel gone bad of a building that God designed.

Tattoos and piercings also speak to me of the character of the person. When I see a person that has a tattoo or piercing other than a normal pierced ear, I view that person as a person that makes life effecting decisions with little or no thought of the consequences. That is definitely not someone I would ever rely on.

"normal pierced ear" lol.
Is not that just Judging? You are just trying to get me to argue with you. But let me say I am glad I don't have to know you in real life. You seem like a 21 century Pharisee to me, sorry I call them like I see them. You spread false doctrine on this forum and then try to judge me be? Have your religion, I do not want any part of your version of Christianity. Maybe one day I can be as good as you lol.. Man you are a very discouraging person.

[Rocky]

I was honest and up front I openly admit I have an aversion to tattoos and piercings. I wasn't being Pharisaical, that was my opinion based not on religion but observation. I don't know someone's salvation and I can't judge them but I do know what experience has taught me what to expect about their character. If that opinion is later proven wrong then so be it but that in my initial opinion of the person.

Well that is called judging Ed. You can judge some one even if you are not judging someone's salvation, and this is condemned in the bible.. Sorry but you are very wrong on this..

So you are saying if someone is coming at you with a murderous look on their face you are to stand your ground reach out your hand of friendship? Are our instincts given to us for a reason?
If a guy has drawn pistol am I wrong to assume he may mean me some harm?
I don't think that is what the Bible is saying when it says we are not to judge.

Lol so someone with tattoos and piercings or what ever appearance you don't like are the equivalent as a guy that has drawn pistol or someone with a murderous look . Come on now, you're grasping at straws to justify your hypocrisy. God is not in the way you view this. this is your own prejudice. What an erroneous point to say the least. And Billy,

and as far as REVED he is old school holiness.many old schoolpreachers dont go for that stuff.no disrespect meant

The fact That Ed is a preacher scares me, he is prejudice, and that has no place in the in the life of a believer. But I know Ed is ignorant about this, and I have to not judge all old schoolpreachers Because of him. Some Christian are just mean old coots and that just the way it is. Now its our turn to try to reach people in this generation because this way of thinking isn't working and it never will. Ed looks at the outer appearances of people and is quick to judge. I am glad Jesus is not this way. I could care less about being a minister or having a platform, I just want to reach people for the gospel. This old school way of doing things isn't working anymore, The church has become voiceless in this generation.

[Justaned]

I was honest and up front I openly admit I have an aversion to tattoos and piercings. I wasn't being Pharisaical, that was my opinion based not on religion but observation. I don't know someone's salvation and I can't judge them but I do know what experience has taught me what to expect about their character. If that opinion is later proven wrong then so be it but that in my initial opinion of the person.

Well that is called judging Ed. You can judge some one even if you are not judging someone's salvation, and this is condemned in the bible.. Sorry but you are very wrong on this..

So you are saying if someone is coming at you with a murderous look on their face you are to stand your ground reach out your hand of friendship? Are our instincts given to us for a reason?
If a guy has drawn pistol am I wrong to assume he may mean me some harm?
I don't think that is what the Bible is saying when it says we are not to judge.

Lol so someone with tattoos and piercings or what ever appearance you don't like are the equivalent as a guy that has drawn pistol or someone with a murderous look . Come on now, you're grasping at straws to justify your hypocrisy. God is not in the way you view this. this is your own prejudice. What an erroneous point to say the least. And Billy,

and as far as REVED he is old school holiness.many old schoolpreachers dont go for that stuff.no disrespect meant

The fact That Ed is a preacher scares me, he is prejudice, and that has no place in the in the life of a believer. But I know Ed is ignorant about this, and I have to not judge all old schoolpreachers Because of him. Some Christian are just mean old coots and that just the way it is. Now its our turn to try to reach people in this generation because this way of thinking isn't working and it never will. Ed looks at the outer appearances of people and is quick to judge. I am glad Jesus is not this way. I could care less about being a minister or having a platform, I just want to reach people for the gospel. This old school way of doing things isn't working anymore, The church has become voiceless in this generation.

I never claimed God was in my view of tattoos.

Personally I view tattoos a graffiti on a building. To the person that did the graffiti it might be be attractive but to me it disfigures the building. Therefore I have to believe the person the made the decision to have tattoos or piercings as being a person that make life effecting decisions with little or no consideration of the consequences. That is not a person I want to be around.

Is that judging a person? Yes to the same degree we learn not to be around the schoolyard bully in school or the person that can't control their anger. I avoid those people just as I avoid people with tattoos.

Once I get to know them I may learn their tattoo was youthful mistake they have long regretted or that they have matured and regret not thinking it through.

I know many that are now in the process of having them removed, a expensive and painful process I'm told. But if I learned they were proud of graffiti they placed on their body I would always wonder about them.

My daughter who is a hospice nurse often tells of the problems people with tattoos experience later in life. Many have really nasty problems with them. Like I said it is not the best decision someone makes in life.

[Justaned]

Lol so someone with tattoos and piercings or what ever appearance you don't like are the equivalent as a guy that has drawn pistol or someone with a murderous look . Come on now, you're grasping at straws to justify your hypocrisy. God is not in the way you view this. this is your own prejudice. What an erroneous point to say the least.

Rocky are you seriously trying to deny that appearance does not effect our first impression of a person? Nobody is able to that not even you. You say you must look and dress the part to witness. What you are saying is everyone you witness to is making a first impression strictly on your appearance. That is correct that is how the human body and mind works.

My first impression of the person covered in tattoos and piercings is aversion. I'm being truthful and honest here. That is not to say I would not allow them into the church. I would however try to discover why the have chosen to look and dress this way. If they had a valid reason (one I could buy into) then I would not have problem. However if they are doing it because of rebellion, or desire for attention or some other reason that suggests they have problems I would try to work them through those problems.

But to suggest I'm a bad person because I use appearance to help form my first impressions of a person is simply wrong we all do that. If you see some older man and in a dark suit(dressed like a preacher) walking toward you carrying a bible do you deny the first thought in your head is here comes an old codger holiness preacher? Sure you do and you probably still yourself against an expected attack about how you look. That is common nature.

So don't go to the appearance has no place in society route with me or oh your judging route either.

[Rocky]

Lol so someone with tattoos and piercings or what ever appearance you don't like are the equivalent as a guy that has drawn pistol or someone with a murderous look . Come on now, you're grasping at straws to justify your hypocrisy. God is not in the way you view this. this is your own prejudice. What an erroneous point to say the least.

Rocky are you seriously trying to deny that appearance does not effect our first impression of a person? Nobody is able to that not even you. You say you must look and dress the part to witness. What you are saying is everyone you witness to is making a first impression strictly on your appearance. That is correct that is how the human body and mind works.

My first impression of the person covered in tattoos and piercings is aversion. I'm being truthful and honest here. That is not to say I would not allow them into the church. I would however try to discover why the have chosen to look and dress this way. If they had a valid reason (one I could buy into) then I would not have problem. However if they are doing it because of rebellion, or desire for attention or some other reason that suggests they have problems I would try to work them through those problems.

But to suggest I'm a bad person because I use appearance to help form my first impressions of a person is simply wrong we all do that. If you see some older man and in a dark suit(dressed like a preacher) walking toward you carrying a bible do you deny the first thought in your head is here comes an old codger holiness preacher? Sure you do and you probably still yourself against an expected attack about how you look. That is common nature.

So don't go to the appearance has no place in society route with me or oh your judging route either.

I never claimed God was in my view of tattoos.

Well maybe that might be your problem . I don't have any tattoos by the way

However if they are doing it because of rebellion, or desire for attention or some other reason that suggests they have problems I would try to work them through those problems

. I completely agree with that statement


No I am not saying that appearance does not effect our first impression of a person. I am saying it shouldn't, especially if we are Christians, society and the world does that. We are not suppose to be like the world, isn't that what the Bible says? People has that so backwards, they use that scripture for every thing accept for what it actually means. Come on man you are a Minister who should be telling me this. One can mature in this matter and grow in the lord and not do it.
And, I never said "you must look and dress the part to witness". An old holiness preacher was a great light to me in my life. And I don't think Dake was a Goth, he wore suits. I am not dressing and looking the way I do to witness, I do it because that is me, and how I like to look and dress, and How I choose to express my self. And yes even I catch myself judging at times, but I immediately get a Check in my spirit when I do, and have to repent over it. But I don't make decision based on my observation of someone out ward clothing or jewelry. But I get what you are saying. And identifying and judging are two different things. I think it just might be a generational gap between us. Maybe years ago only Gang member, convicts and ax murderers were the only one with tatts or piercings I don't know, but times are different brother. Just try to not be so quick to judge and try to get to know someone first before you think they are worthless or unreliable or what ever k bro.. Maybe this world would be a better place if Christians would stop being so religious and just love people..

Hey this reminds me of a story maybe you ever heard this one.
“Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”