Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Some questions for all those that say God isn't in control

[cpbeller]

Leon, Leon, Leon....here we go again.

I should not have to tell you what it is you already know about Ed and God.

But I will clarify this: "and there was none of the men of the house there within."

When that part was written, God only put that there to make the story interesting. In fact, we do not even know if what was said is the truth, because God wants to make the stories in the Bible interesting. Remember?

[Justaned]

Leon, Leon, Leon....here we go again.

I should not have to tell you what it is you already know about Ed and God.

But I will clarify this: "and there was none of the men of the house there within."

When that part was written, God only put that there to make the story interesting. In fact, we do not even know if what was said is the truth, because God wants to make the stories in the Bible interesting. Remember?

Okay so are you saying Joseph was not a man of intergrity? Or that Joseph was innocent? Or that Joseph was perhaps naive? Again is a pretty woman asking to be raped because she is attractive to men?

Let us read the story again only in context
Genesis 39:2-14 (NKJV)
2 The LORD was with Joseph, and he was a successful man; and he was in the house of his master the Egyptian.
3 And his master saw that the LORD was with him and that the LORD made all he did to prosper in his hand.
4 So Joseph found favor in his sight, and served him. Then he made him overseer of his house, and all that he had he put under his authority.
5 So it was, from the time that he had made him overseer of his house and all that he had, that the LORD blessed the Egyptian's house for Joseph's sake; and the blessing of the LORD was on all that he had in the house and in the field.
6 Thus he left all that he had in Joseph's hand, and he did not know what he had except for the bread which he ate. Now Joseph was handsome in form and appearance.
7 And it came to pass after these things that his master's wife cast longing eyes on Joseph, and she said, "Lie with me."
8 But he refused and said to his master's wife, "Look, my master does not know what is with me in the house, and he has committed all that he has to my hand.
9 There is no one greater in this house than I, nor has he kept back anything from me but you, because you are his wife. How then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?"
10 So it was, as she spoke to Joseph day by day, that he did not heed her, to lie with her or to be with her.
11 But it happened about this time, when Joseph went into the house to do his work, and none of the men of the house was inside,
12 that she caught him by his garment, saying, "Lie with me." But he left his garment in her hand, and fled and ran outside.
13 And so it was, when she saw that he had left his garment in her hand and fled outside,
14 that she called to the men of her house and spoke to them, saying, "See, he has brought in to us a Hebrew to mock us. He came in to me to lie with me, and I cried out with a loud voice.

Notice what it says in verse 2 the Lord was with Joseph. Not that Joseph was on his own or running wild but that the Lord was with Joseph.

Second Potiphar's wife openly approached Joseph and Joseph didn't play around he came straight out and said NO! Does this sound like a man that would as you suggest go into the a house to be tempted willingly?

Why does scripture say Joseph went into the house? Because all the men were gone? No. It clearly states Joseph had business in the the house.

It does say that when there was no men in the house Potiphar's wife tried once again to seduce Joseph but Joseph being a man of integrity said no and left.

I see nothing here other than the statement that the Lord was with Joseph to give us any indication of Joseph's attitude or that his decision making process was not up to the task.

So why try to malign Joseph and place blame on him?

[bibleman]

Let us give credit where credit is due Joseph displayed himself as a man of intergrity many times over let us not cheapen that by saying he was looking for trouble.

Hi Ed,

Never said he was looking for trouble. But it was a dumb thing to do.

So A beautiful woman in town says she is after Ed...

Ed knows this.

Ed goes to sell a vacuum cleaner to a house and finds out it is the woman's house who is after him, (who is there alone).

She invites Ed in saying she needs a vacuum cleaner and would like to hear all about it.

Ed does what?

(A) Goes in anyway!

(B) Turns from the door and makes his next call somewhere else?

According to YOU - YOU go in anyway?

How about bouncing this off of your wife and see how she feels about it!

[bibleman]

Leon, Leon, Leon....here we go again.

I should not have to tell you what it is you already know about Ed and God.

But I will clarify this: "and there was none of the men of the house there within."

When that part was written, God only put that there to make the story interesting. In fact, we do not even know if what was said is the truth, because God wants to make the stories in the Bible interesting. Remember?

Yeah Chris,

I forgot to read it in the eyes of one who does NOT believe the Bible and has to add to the Bible in order to make it fit their quack-theology!

[Justaned]

Let us give credit where credit is due Joseph displayed himself as a man of intergrity many times over let us not cheapen that by saying he was looking for trouble.

Hi Ed,

Never said he was looking for trouble. But it was a dumb thing to do.

So A beautiful woman in town says she is after Ed...

Ed knows this.

Ed goes to sell a vacuum cleaner to a house and finds out it is the woman's house who is after him, (who is there alone).

She invites Ed in saying she needs a vacuum cleaner and would like to hear all about it.

Ed does what?

(A) Goes in anyway!

(B) Turns from the door and makes his next call somewhere else?

According to YOU - YOU go in anyway?

How about bouncing this off of your wife and see how she feels about it!

Oh I totally agree knowing what I know now about how people are I would have taken someone. But the most we can accuse Joseph of is possibly being naive. He did nothing wrong but he did put himself in a place where he could be compromised. But as verse two says The Lord was with him so God must have allowed it to happen.

[Justaned]

Leon, Leon, Leon....here we go again.

I should not have to tell you what it is you already know about Ed and God.

But I will clarify this: "and there was none of the men of the house there within."

When that part was written, God only put that there to make the story interesting. In fact, we do not even know if what was said is the truth, because God wants to make the stories in the Bible interesting. Remember?

Yeah Chris,

I forgot to read it in the eyes of one who does NOT believe the Bible and has to add to the Bible in order to make it fit their quack-theology!

I believe the Bible but unlike you two I don't fixate on one verse I read the verses before it and the ones after it to see if that effects my understanding of the verse.

In Joseph's case we are told Genesis 39:2 (NLT)
Genesis 39:2 (NKJV)
2 The LORD was with Joseph, and he was a successful man; and he was in the house of his master the Egyptian.

So anything good that happened was God and anything bad it was Joseph's fault right? But that is not what scripture says, It says "The LORD was with Joseph, and he was a successful man; and he was in the house of his master the Egyptian."

Let us read it in the NLTGenesis 39:2 (NLT)
2 The LORD was with Joseph, so he succeeded in everything he did as he served in the home of his Egyptian master.

He succeeded in everything he did as he served in the home of the his Egyptian master. Doesn't sound like God faults Joseph so why do you two?

[bibleman]

Let us give credit where credit is due Joseph displayed himself as a man of intergrity many times over let us not cheapen that by saying he was looking for trouble.

Hi Ed,

Never said he was looking for trouble. But it was a dumb thing to do.

So A beautiful woman in town says she is after Ed...

Ed knows this.

Ed goes to sell a vacuum cleaner to a house and finds out it is the woman's house who is after him, (who is there alone).

She invites Ed in saying she needs a vacuum cleaner and would like to hear all about it.

Ed does what?

(A) Goes in anyway!

(B) Turns from the door and makes his next call somewhere else?

According to YOU - YOU go in anyway?

How about bouncing this off of your wife and see how she feels about it!

Oh I totally agree knowing what I know now about how people are I would have taken someone. But the most we can accuse Joseph of is possibly being naive. He did nothing wrong but he did put himself in a place where he could be compromised. But as verse two says The Lord was with him so God must have allowed it to happen.

'

You call it being naive I call it dumb!

I think it is about the same thing isn't it.

And yes the Lord allows us to be dumb.

[Justaned]

Let us give credit where credit is due Joseph displayed himself as a man of intergrity many times over let us not cheapen that by saying he was looking for trouble.

Hi Ed,

Never said he was looking for trouble. But it was a dumb thing to do.

So A beautiful woman in town says she is after Ed...

Ed knows this.

Ed goes to sell a vacuum cleaner to a house and finds out it is the woman's house who is after him, (who is there alone).

She invites Ed in saying she needs a vacuum cleaner and would like to hear all about it.

Ed does what?

(A) Goes in anyway!

(B) Turns from the door and makes his next call somewhere else?

According to YOU - YOU go in anyway?

How about bouncing this off of your wife and see how she feels about it!

Oh I totally agree knowing what I know now about how people are I would have taken someone. But the most we can accuse Joseph of is possibly being naive. He did nothing wrong but he did put himself in a place where he could be compromised. But as verse two says The Lord was with him so God must have allowed it to happen.

'

You call it being naive I call it dumb!

I think it is about the same thing isn't it.

And yes the Lord allows us to be dumb.

Never said God doesn't allow us to be dumb. But the problem was not Joseph's! The problem was lust of the flesh by Potiphar's wife and to try to shift the blame to Joseph to justify your theology that only bad things happen to God's people when they do bad things is nonsense.
Verse 2 clearly says the Lord was with Joseph. Not that Joseph was walking in the way that seemed right to Joseph.

[Justaned]

Did Joseph really sell vacuum cleaners door to door???

that is almost what Bibleman wants us to believe. And we all know if anything bad happens to the vacuum cleaner salesmen it is their own fault. That way we can't say God allowed it or even knew about it.

However the Word says the Lord was with Joseph.

[Rocky]

Rocky, glad you find Ed's twisted and ever changing logic reasonable.

And only I have called him out as a Calvinist (not "some", just me). My experience over the years of dealing with Calvinists leads me to my conclusions about Ed. Large prooftexting on out-of-context Scriptures concerning God's sovereignty, Calvinistic twisted arguments, but then when he is called out on it then he attempts to explain himself in a different way.

Won't take but another post for the Calvinistic tendencies to come right back out.

Hi Mr victoryword, Hmm in Justaned's reply to me I don't see calvinism. He is saying that God has the ability to control if he so chooses. We see this in scripture a lot. God does influence at times in the affairs of humans and events, He even made a donkey talk and permitted a demon spirit to cause some one to lie to get his will done, What is wrong with believing this?. And what is the problem with it?