Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ The Sorcerer's Sin

[Hill Top]

2. How does one know if they've received the Spirit? How do you know that you have received the Spirit?

You will receive the gift of tongues.

Virtually all individuals that have received the gift of tongues have sinned or will sin after speaking in tongues.

I'ld like to know the source of that unbiblical information.

The New Testamen and real life experience with enough people who have received the gift of tongues to know that those that speak in tongues are still capable of sin and do, in fact, actually sin.

Doesn't a sin, show that their repentance from sin was false ?
If that was false, so is their "gift".

[Hill Top]

How do you justify the belief that those that receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (as evidenced by the gift of tongues) never sin again? Please, consider St. Peter's error as recorded in Galatians 2:11-21.

Peter's "error" wasn't sin...it was a missed opportunity to make visiting Jews see that they were no better/different than any reborn Gentile.

The fact that you don't see errors and missed opportunities as sin confirms that you and I have different definitions of what sin is.

Is it a sin if a kid runs out between cars, and you kill them ?
NO, unless you were driving drunk/drugged, and faster that the posted limit.
All sin is intentional.
Did Gal. 2 Peter intend to disobey God by condescending to the visiting Jews ?
I don't think so.
Why do you ?

[Spiritblade Disciple]

My point isn't about making choices. It's about utilizing total mental capacity at all times to love God as commanded.

No one utilizes 100% of their mind, all of the time. Therefore, no one loves God with all their mind, all of the time. The requirement is to love God with all of one's mind, all the time. Yet, no one is really even capable of harnessing the full capacity of their own mind at any given time. Let alone, all the time.

That part of the brain that man doesn't use, cannot compel or enable one to commit sin.
They do, however, use all of their mind.
The mind is what we use to make our decisions.
A brain is a physical organ.
The mind is quite different that a physical organ.
It is the manifestations of electrical impulses attached to all its prior experiences and learnings.
We do use 100% of that.

Are you saying that from the time a person begins speaking in tongues, that person can never love God with more of their mind? That there is never any more potential for mentally loving God more? And, that that level of mental love never varies?

[Spiritblade Disciple]

... virtually no one consistently [Loves God with all the heart, mind, soul, strength, and might to 100% of ideal human capacity and neighbor as self] at all times to 100% of their capacity.

Everyone who has been reborn of God's seed, does what God wants them to do 100% of the time.

To me, that verse means that a person that is born of God don't sin intentionally, while His seed remains in that person.

All sin is intentional. (James 1:14-15)

James 1:14-15 does not say that "all sin is intentional."
Given that there are examples of unintentional sin in the Bible, why do you claim to the contrary, that all sin is intentional?

Here is just one example of unintentional sin. See Acts 3:17 and surrounding text. They sinned in ignorance, but still needed to repent (Acts 3:19).

[Spiritblade Disciple]

It doesn't mean that the seed is certain to always remain in the person (see the Parable of the Sower... Things can happen to the seed).

If the seed of God has not taken root, the bearer of that seed was not reborn.
Seed can only bring forth after itself.

Would it be correct to say that the seed can only take root in good ground? If so, does the ground have any ability to change its quality from bad to good?

[Spiritblade Disciple]

Aren't you claiming that a person has to [completely quit sinning] before they can receive the Holy Ghost?

The intention to do so, occurs before one receives the gift that enables the repentant to do so.

Is merely intending to quit sinning enough?

I have heard it said, that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Real intent is followed up with real action.

How does a person know if they really have "real intent"? Can a person ever have "real intent" and then, later on, choose to yield to sin?

[Spiritblade Disciple]

The New Testamen and real life experience with enough people who have received the gift of tongues to know that those that speak in tongues are still capable of sin and do, in fact, actually sin.

Doesn't a sin, show that their repentance from sin was false ?
If that was false, so is their "gift".

Jesus said to forgive up to 490 times a day for the same sin (Matthew 18:22).

If I understand what you are saying... You are saying that the only way to tell if repentance is genuine is to never sin again. If that is true, what does speaking in tongues have to do with proving someone has truly repented? After all, plenty of people who speak in tongues have sinned since beginning to speak in tongues.

[Spiritblade Disciple]

The fact that you don't see errors and missed opportunities as sin confirms that you and I have different definitions of what sin is.

Is it a sin if a kid runs out between cars, and you kill them ?
NO, unless you were driving drunk/drugged, and faster that the posted limit.

That depends upon the circumstances. Does it fall short of the glory of God in any way?

[Spiritblade Disciple]

All sin is intentional.

I still don't agree that all sin is intentional. There are New Testament examples of sins committed through ignorance.

See Paul's sins committed in ignorance and unbelief which he listed in 1st Timothy 1:13-16, for example. He didn't know he was sinning when he did those deeds and he didn't intend to sin when he did them. Yet, those acts counted towards Paul's being the chief of sinners.

[Hill Top]

My point isn't about making choices. It's about utilizing total mental capacity at all times to love God as commanded.
No one utilizes 100% of their mind, all of the time. Therefore, no one loves God with all their mind, all of the time. The requirement is to love God with all of one's mind, all the time. Yet, no one is really even capable of harnessing the full capacity of their own mind at any given time. Let alone, all the time.

That part of the brain that man doesn't use, cannot compel or enable one to commit sin.
They do, however, use all of their mind.
The mind is what we use to make our decisions.
A brain is a physical organ.
The mind is quite different that a physical organ.
It is the manifestations of electrical impulses attached to all its prior experiences and learnings.
We do use 100% of that.

Are you saying that from the time a person begins speaking in tongues, that person can never love God with more of their mind? That there is never any more potential for mentally loving God more? And, that that level of mental love never varies?

I feel...
If one loves God with all their mind, how can they love Him more than "all" their mind ?
We are all to grow in grace and knowledge, and hopefully, will have more and more reasons to love Him.
But there is only one "love".