Dake Bible Discussion BoardMillennial Exclusion; Kingdom Exclusion

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Millennial Exclusion; Kingdom Exclusion

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

I asked Grok to define, describe, and explain Millennial Exclusion, Kingdom Exclusion as taught by Joey Faust and others; in a detailed an thorough manner.

This is Grok's response:
Grok wrote: Millennial Exclusion and Kingdom Exclusion: Definition, Description, and Explanation

Millennial Exclusion and Kingdom Exclusion are theological concepts primarily associated with certain premillennialist interpretations within Christianity, notably advanced by Joey D. Faust, an Independent Fundamental Baptist pastor, in his book The Rod: Will God Spare It? An Exhaustive Study of Temporary Punishment for Unfaithful Christians at the Judgment Seat and During the Millennial Kingdom. These doctrines assert that some believers, while eternally secure in their salvation, may face temporary exclusion from the joys, privileges, and participation in the Millennial Kingdom (the 1,000-year reign of Christ described in Revelation 20) due to unfaithfulness, carnality, or failure to "overcome" in their Christian life. Below, I provide a detailed and thorough explanation of these concepts, their biblical basis as presented by Faust and others, their historical context, critiques, and comparisons to related theological positions.

Definition and Core Concepts
  1. Millennial Exclusion:
    • Definition: Millennial Exclusion teaches that certain Christians, though saved and guaranteed eternal life, may be excluded from participating in the Millennial Kingdom due to unfaithfulness, disobedience, or failure to live a life of overcoming sin. Instead of reigning with Christ during the 1,000-year period, these believers may face temporary punishment, chastisement, or banishment, potentially in a place of judgment such as the "outer darkness" or even a temporary form of "soul death" or confinement in a fiery underworld.
    • Key Idea: The Millennial Kingdom is viewed as a "prize" or reward for faithful Christians, particularly those who are "overcomers" (a term drawn from the letters to the seven churches in Revelation 2-3). Unfaithful Christians, while not losing their salvation, may miss out on this reward and face temporary consequences.
  2. Kingdom Exclusion:
    • Definition: Kingdom Exclusion is often used interchangeably with Millennial Exclusion but can broadly refer to exclusion from the blessings and rulership of Christ’s Kingdom, whether during the Millennium or in a more general eschatological sense. It emphasizes the idea that only faithful, obedient Christians will inherit the full privileges of the Kingdom, while carnal or unrepentant believers will suffer loss of rewards or temporary punishment.
    • Key Idea: The concept hinges on the distinction between salvation (a free gift) and rewards (earned through faithful living), with the Millennial Kingdom being a primary context for these rewards.
  3. Joey Faust’s Specific Teachings:
    • Faust’s version of Millennial Exclusion is notably extreme compared to other proponents. In The Rod: Will God Spare It?, he argues that unfaithful Christians will face severe consequences at the Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10), including:
      • Temporary Soul Death: Faust interprets passages like 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 (where a believer’s works are tried by fire) to mean that unfaithful Christians themselves may be "burned" or experience a form of temporary death or punishment during the Millennium.
      • Banishment to the Underworld: He suggests that some believers may be cast into a "fiery prison of the underworld" (akin to Hades) for the duration of the Millennium, only to be restored at the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15).
      • Exclusion from the First Resurrection: Faust claims that the First Resurrection (Revelation 20:4-6) is a "prize" reserved for martyrs and overcomers, not all believers. Unfaithful Christians may not be resurrected until after the Millennium.
      • Hurt of the Second Death: He interprets Revelation 2:11 ("He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death") to imply that some believers could experience temporary harm from the second death (typically understood as eternal punishment for the unsaved) during the Millennium.
    • Faust emphasizes an "accountability truth," arguing that the increasing complacency among Christians (who rely on eternal security without pursuing holiness) necessitates a doctrine of temporary punishment to motivate godly living.
Biblical Basis as Presented by Faust and Others

Proponents of Millennial Exclusion, including Faust, rely on several biblical passages to support their views, often interpreting them in a way that emphasizes rewards and consequences for believers:
  1. 1 Corinthians 3:13-15:
    • Text: "Every man's work shall be made manifest… If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."
    • Interpretation: Faust argues that the fire tries not only the works but the believer himself, potentially leading to chastisement or temporary punishment. The phrase "saved; yet so as by fire" is interpreted as a believer enduring a fiery judgment or banishment during the Millennium.
  2. Revelation 2-3 (Letters to the Seven Churches):
    • Text: The letters repeatedly call believers to "overcome" with promises of rewards (e.g., Revelation 2:11, "shall not be hurt of the second death"; Revelation 3:5, "I will not blot out his name out of the book of life").
    • Interpretation: Faust and others assert that only "overcomers" (those who live faithfully and resist sin) will inherit the Millennial Kingdom. Non-overcomers may face exclusion or punishment.
  3. 1 Corinthians 9:27:
    • Text: "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."
    • Interpretation: The term "castaway" (Greek: adokimos, meaning "disapproved" or "rejected") is taken to mean exclusion from the Millennial Kingdom, not loss of salvation.
  4. Luke 9:25:
    • Text: "For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?"
    • Interpretation: Faust applies this to believers, suggesting that a Christian could "lose himself" in terms of Kingdom rewards or participation.
  5. Matthew 25:30:
    • Text: "And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
    • Interpretation: Some proponents, including Faust, argue that the "unprofitable servant" represents a saved but unfaithful believer who is temporarily cast into "outer darkness" (interpreted as a place of regret or punishment outside the Kingdom’s joys).
  6. Hebrews 10:29:
    • Text: "Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God…?"
    • Interpretation: Faust applies this to believers, suggesting a "sorer punishment" (temporary, not eternal) for those who live in willful sin.
  7. Revelation 20:4-6:
    • Text: "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them… and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years… This is the first resurrection."
    • Interpretation: Faust argues that the First Resurrection is selective, reserved for martyrs and overcomers, excluding carnal Christians until a later resurrection.
Historical Context and Proponents

Faust claims that Millennial Exclusion has historical precedent among premillennialists, particularly in the early church and among certain 19th- and 20th-century theologians. In The Rod: Will God Spare It?, he cites figures such as:
  • Early Church Fathers: Faust asserts that many early Christians (in the first 300 years of the New Testament period) held to chiliasm (a literal Millennium) and believed in a form of accountability that included temporary exclusion or chastisement for unfaithful believers.
  • 19th- and 20th-Century Writers: Faust quotes premillennialists like George Peters, Robert Govett, G.H. Pember, D.M. Panton, J.A. Seiss, Watchman Nee, and others to support his view. While these figures emphasized rewards and accountability at the Judgment Seat of Christ, Faust’s critics argue that none explicitly taught his extreme version of believers being cast into a fiery underworld or experiencing the "second death."
Other contemporary proponents, such as Zane Hodges, Joseph Dillow, and Robert Wilkin (associated with the Grace Evangelical Society), advocate a milder form of Millennial Exclusion. They teach that unfaithful believers may be excluded from the joys and rulership of the Millennial Kingdom, experiencing "outer darkness" (interpreted as regret or loss of privilege) but not the severe punishments Faust proposes, such as temporary banishment to Hades or the lake of fire.

Comparison to Related Theological Views
  1. Purgatory (Roman Catholicism):
    • Critics, such as those on the Baptist Board and in reviews of Faust’s work, liken Millennial Exclusion to a "Baptist Purgatory" due to its emphasis on temporary punishment for believers. Faust vehemently denies this, arguing that the Catholic doctrine of Purgatory is a perversion of the "biblical truths" of Millennial Exclusion and chastisement. He contends that Purgatory involves unbiblical elements (e.g., prayers for the dead, indulgences), whereas his doctrine is based solely on Scripture and applies only to the Millennium.
  2. Free Grace Theology:
    • Faust’s teachings align with aspects of Free Grace theology, which emphasizes eternal security and distinguishes between salvation (a free gift) and rewards (earned through faithfulness). However, Faust’s extreme views (e.g., believers in the lake of fire) are rejected by many Free Grace advocates like Hodges, Dillow, and Wilkin, who see exclusion as a loss of rewards or privileges, not physical punishment.
  3. Lordship Salvation:
    • Millennial Exclusion stands in contrast to Lordship Salvation, which holds that true salvation results in a transformed life and perseverance in faith. Lordship proponents would argue that Faust’s unfaithful Christians are not truly saved, whereas Faust maintains their eternal security but imposes temporary consequences.
  4. Calvinism and Arminianism:
    • Calvinists might argue that unfaithful Christians were never saved, as true salvation produces perseverance. Arminians might claim that such Christians lose their salvation. Faust rejects both, asserting that salvation is eternal but rewards and Kingdom participation are conditional.
Critiques and Objections

Faust’s teachings have sparked significant controversy, particularly among Baptists and other evangelicals, who view them as unbiblical, heretical, or divisive. Key critiques include:
  1. Unbiblical Interpretations:
    • Critics, such as Herb Evans (Faustology 101) and Laurence M. Vance (Grace Evangelical Society), argue that Faust misinterprets key passages. For example:
      • 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 refers to the testing of works, not the believer’s person, by fire.
      • The "second death" (Revelation 20:14) is consistently described as eternal punishment for the unsaved, not a temporary state for believers.
      • The "outer darkness" and "weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 25:30) are typically understood as referring to the fate of the unsaved, not believers.
    • Faust’s claim that believers can be cast into the lake of fire or Hades lacks explicit scriptural support and contradicts promises like John 6:37 ("I will in no wise cast out") and Romans 8:38-39 (nothing can separate believers from Christ’s love).
  2. Resemblance to Purgatory:
    • Despite Faust’s denials, critics argue that his doctrine of temporary punishment in a fiery underworld closely resembles Catholic Purgatory, undermining the sufficiency of Christ’s atonement for believers.
  3. Selective Resurrection:
    • Faust’s view that the First Resurrection is only for overcomers contradicts passages like 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, which suggest all believers are raptured and resurrected together. Critics argue that the Bible does not support a tiered resurrection for believers based on faithfulness.
  4. Vague Criteria for Exclusion:
    • Faust does not clearly define what sins lead to exclusion (e.g., "willful sin," "disobedience," or "sloth"). Critics argue this ambiguity creates fear and uncertainty, contradicting the comfort of passages like 1 Thessalonians 5:9-11 ("God hath not appointed us to wrath").
  5. Historical Misrepresentation:
    • While Faust cites early church fathers and premillennialists, critics note that these figures did not teach his extreme views (e.g., believers in the lake of fire). They argue that Faust cherry-picks quotes to bolster his position, ignoring broader historical context.
  6. Divisiveness:
    • Faust’s teachings have led to broken fellowship with other Baptist groups, as noted by Long Run Baptist Church and others, who view his doctrine as a "divisive heresy" that undermines the assurance of salvation.
Faust’s Responses to Objections

In The Rod: Will God Spare It?, Faust addresses common objections:
  1. Purgatory Comparison:
    • He argues that Millennial Exclusion is distinct from Purgatory because it is temporary, tied to the Millennium, and based on biblical accountability rather than Catholic traditions.
  2. Scriptural Misinterpretation:
    • Faust contends that critics misread passages like 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 by limiting the fire to works, not persons. He cites historical premillennialists to support his view that the fire tests the believer’s character.
  3. Eternal Security:
    • He emphasizes that his doctrine upholds eternal security, as excluded believers are ultimately restored after the Millennium, distinguishing it from Arminianism or Calvinism.
  4. Motivation for Holiness:
    • Faust argues that Millennial Exclusion provides a necessary "accountability truth" to counter antinomianism (the belief that grace excuses sin without consequences). He believes it motivates Christians to live holy lives.
Broader Implications and Reception
  • Supporters: Faust’s teachings resonate with some premillennialists who emphasize accountability and rewards. His book is praised by some for its extensive citations of historical figures and its call to holy living.
  • Critics: The majority of responses, particularly from Baptist and Free Grace circles, are negative, labeling Faust’s views as heretical, extreme, and akin to a "Baptist Purgatory." His emphasis on believers facing the "second death" or the lake of fire is seen as particularly problematic.
  • Impact: Faust’s teachings have caused division within Baptist communities, leading to his exclusion from fellowship with some churches. His book is considered controversial, with some predicting it could be "the most controversial Christian work of this age."
Conclusion

Millennial Exclusion and Kingdom Exclusion, as taught by Joey Faust, are theological doctrines that assert unfaithful Christians, while eternally secure, may face temporary exclusion from the Millennial Kingdom and severe chastisements (e.g., temporary soul death, banishment to a fiery underworld) due to disobedience or failure to overcome. Rooted in a premillennialist framework, Faust’s teachings rely on interpretations of passages like 1 Corinthians 3:13-15, Revelation 2-3, and Matthew 25:30, but they are criticized for lacking clear scriptural support, resembling Catholic Purgatory, and creating fear rather than comfort for believers. While Faust cites historical figures to bolster his case, critics argue that his views are an extreme departure from mainstream evangelical theology, leading to significant controversy and division. For a deeper exploration, readers may consult Faust’s The Rod: Will God Spare It? or critical reviews like those from the Grace Evangelical Society or Baptist Board discussions.


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Re: Millennial Exclusion; Kingdom Exclusion

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote: Tue Aug 26, 2025 12:32 am I asked Grok to define, describe, and explain Millennial Exclusion, Kingdom Exclusion as taught by Joey Faust and others; in a detailed an thorough manner.

This is Grok's response:
Grok wrote: Millennial Exclusion and Kingdom Exclusion: Definition, Description, and Explanation

Millennial Exclusion and Kingdom Exclusion are theological concepts primarily associated with certain premillennialist interpretations within Christianity, notably advanced by Joey D. Faust, an Independent Fundamental Baptist pastor, in his book The Rod: Will God Spare It? An Exhaustive Study of Temporary Punishment for Unfaithful Christians at the Judgment Seat and During the Millennial Kingdom. These doctrines assert that some believers, while eternally secure in their salvation, may face temporary exclusion from the joys, privileges, and participation in the Millennial Kingdom (the 1,000-year reign of Christ described in Revelation 20) due to unfaithfulness, carnality, or failure to "overcome" in their Christian life. Below, I provide a detailed and thorough explanation of these concepts, their biblical basis as presented by Faust and others, their historical context, critiques, and comparisons to related theological positions.

Definition and Core Concepts
  1. Millennial Exclusion:
    • Definition: Millennial Exclusion teaches that certain Christians, though saved and guaranteed eternal life, may be excluded from participating in the Millennial Kingdom due to unfaithfulness, disobedience, or failure to live a life of overcoming sin. Instead of reigning with Christ during the 1,000-year period, these believers may face temporary punishment, chastisement, or banishment, potentially in a place of judgment such as the "outer darkness" or even a temporary form of "soul death" or confinement in a fiery underworld.
    • Key Idea: The Millennial Kingdom is viewed as a "prize" or reward for faithful Christians, particularly those who are "overcomers" (a term drawn from the letters to the seven churches in Revelation 2-3). Unfaithful Christians, while not losing their salvation, may miss out on this reward and face temporary consequences.
  2. Kingdom Exclusion:
    • Definition: Kingdom Exclusion is often used interchangeably with Millennial Exclusion but can broadly refer to exclusion from the blessings and rulership of Christ’s Kingdom, whether during the Millennium or in a more general eschatological sense. It emphasizes the idea that only faithful, obedient Christians will inherit the full privileges of the Kingdom, while carnal or unrepentant believers will suffer loss of rewards or temporary punishment.
    • Key Idea: The concept hinges on the distinction between salvation (a free gift) and rewards (earned through faithful living), with the Millennial Kingdom being a primary context for these rewards.
  3. Joey Faust’s Specific Teachings:
    • Faust’s version of Millennial Exclusion is notably extreme compared to other proponents. In The Rod: Will God Spare It?, he argues that unfaithful Christians will face severe consequences at the Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10), including:
      • Temporary Soul Death: Faust interprets passages like 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 (where a believer’s works are tried by fire) to mean that unfaithful Christians themselves may be "burned" or experience a form of temporary death or punishment during the Millennium.
      • Banishment to the Underworld: He suggests that some believers may be cast into a "fiery prison of the underworld" (akin to Hades) for the duration of the Millennium, only to be restored at the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15).
      • Exclusion from the First Resurrection: Faust claims that the First Resurrection (Revelation 20:4-6) is a "prize" reserved for martyrs and overcomers, not all believers. Unfaithful Christians may not be resurrected until after the Millennium.
      • Hurt of the Second Death: He interprets Revelation 2:11 ("He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death") to imply that some believers could experience temporary harm from the second death (typically understood as eternal punishment for the unsaved) during the Millennium.
    • Faust emphasizes an "accountability truth," arguing that the increasing complacency among Christians (who rely on eternal security without pursuing holiness) necessitates a doctrine of temporary punishment to motivate godly living.
Biblical Basis as Presented by Faust and Others

Proponents of Millennial Exclusion, including Faust, rely on several biblical passages to support their views, often interpreting them in a way that emphasizes rewards and consequences for believers:
  1. 1 Corinthians 3:13-15:
    • Text: "Every man's work shall be made manifest… If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."
    • Interpretation: Faust argues that the fire tries not only the works but the believer himself, potentially leading to chastisement or temporary punishment. The phrase "saved; yet so as by fire" is interpreted as a believer enduring a fiery judgment or banishment during the Millennium.
  2. Revelation 2-3 (Letters to the Seven Churches):
    • Text: The letters repeatedly call believers to "overcome" with promises of rewards (e.g., Revelation 2:11, "shall not be hurt of the second death"; Revelation 3:5, "I will not blot out his name out of the book of life").
    • Interpretation: Faust and others assert that only "overcomers" (those who live faithfully and resist sin) will inherit the Millennial Kingdom. Non-overcomers may face exclusion or punishment.
  3. 1 Corinthians 9:27:
    • Text: "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."
    • Interpretation: The term "castaway" (Greek: adokimos, meaning "disapproved" or "rejected") is taken to mean exclusion from the Millennial Kingdom, not loss of salvation.
  4. Luke 9:25:
    • Text: "For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?"
    • Interpretation: Faust applies this to believers, suggesting that a Christian could "lose himself" in terms of Kingdom rewards or participation.
  5. Matthew 25:30:
    • Text: "And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
    • Interpretation: Some proponents, including Faust, argue that the "unprofitable servant" represents a saved but unfaithful believer who is temporarily cast into "outer darkness" (interpreted as a place of regret or punishment outside the Kingdom’s joys).
  6. Hebrews 10:29:
    • Text: "Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God…?"
    • Interpretation: Faust applies this to believers, suggesting a "sorer punishment" (temporary, not eternal) for those who live in willful sin.
  7. Revelation 20:4-6:
    • Text: "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them… and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years… This is the first resurrection."
    • Interpretation: Faust argues that the First Resurrection is selective, reserved for martyrs and overcomers, excluding carnal Christians until a later resurrection.
Historical Context and Proponents

Faust claims that Millennial Exclusion has historical precedent among premillennialists, particularly in the early church and among certain 19th- and 20th-century theologians. In The Rod: Will God Spare It?, he cites figures such as:
  • Early Church Fathers: Faust asserts that many early Christians (in the first 300 years of the New Testament period) held to chiliasm (a literal Millennium) and believed in a form of accountability that included temporary exclusion or chastisement for unfaithful believers.
  • 19th- and 20th-Century Writers: Faust quotes premillennialists like George Peters, Robert Govett, G.H. Pember, D.M. Panton, J.A. Seiss, Watchman Nee, and others to support his view. While these figures emphasized rewards and accountability at the Judgment Seat of Christ, Faust’s critics argue that none explicitly taught his extreme version of believers being cast into a fiery underworld or experiencing the "second death."
Other contemporary proponents, such as Zane Hodges, Joseph Dillow, and Robert Wilkin (associated with the Grace Evangelical Society), advocate a milder form of Millennial Exclusion. They teach that unfaithful believers may be excluded from the joys and rulership of the Millennial Kingdom, experiencing "outer darkness" (interpreted as regret or loss of privilege) but not the severe punishments Faust proposes, such as temporary banishment to Hades or the lake of fire.

Comparison to Related Theological Views
  1. Purgatory (Roman Catholicism):
    • Critics, such as those on the Baptist Board and in reviews of Faust’s work, liken Millennial Exclusion to a "Baptist Purgatory" due to its emphasis on temporary punishment for believers. Faust vehemently denies this, arguing that the Catholic doctrine of Purgatory is a perversion of the "biblical truths" of Millennial Exclusion and chastisement. He contends that Purgatory involves unbiblical elements (e.g., prayers for the dead, indulgences), whereas his doctrine is based solely on Scripture and applies only to the Millennium.
  2. Free Grace Theology:
    • Faust’s teachings align with aspects of Free Grace theology, which emphasizes eternal security and distinguishes between salvation (a free gift) and rewards (earned through faithfulness). However, Faust’s extreme views (e.g., believers in the lake of fire) are rejected by many Free Grace advocates like Hodges, Dillow, and Wilkin, who see exclusion as a loss of rewards or privileges, not physical punishment.
  3. Lordship Salvation:
    • Millennial Exclusion stands in contrast to Lordship Salvation, which holds that true salvation results in a transformed life and perseverance in faith. Lordship proponents would argue that Faust’s unfaithful Christians are not truly saved, whereas Faust maintains their eternal security but imposes temporary consequences.
  4. Calvinism and Arminianism:
    • Calvinists might argue that unfaithful Christians were never saved, as true salvation produces perseverance. Arminians might claim that such Christians lose their salvation. Faust rejects both, asserting that salvation is eternal but rewards and Kingdom participation are conditional.
Critiques and Objections

Faust’s teachings have sparked significant controversy, particularly among Baptists and other evangelicals, who view them as unbiblical, heretical, or divisive. Key critiques include:
  1. Unbiblical Interpretations:
    • Critics, such as Herb Evans (Faustology 101) and Laurence M. Vance (Grace Evangelical Society), argue that Faust misinterprets key passages. For example:
      • 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 refers to the testing of works, not the believer’s person, by fire.
      • The "second death" (Revelation 20:14) is consistently described as eternal punishment for the unsaved, not a temporary state for believers.
      • The "outer darkness" and "weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 25:30) are typically understood as referring to the fate of the unsaved, not believers.
    • Faust’s claim that believers can be cast into the lake of fire or Hades lacks explicit scriptural support and contradicts promises like John 6:37 ("I will in no wise cast out") and Romans 8:38-39 (nothing can separate believers from Christ’s love).
  2. Resemblance to Purgatory:
    • Despite Faust’s denials, critics argue that his doctrine of temporary punishment in a fiery underworld closely resembles Catholic Purgatory, undermining the sufficiency of Christ’s atonement for believers.
  3. Selective Resurrection:
    • Faust’s view that the First Resurrection is only for overcomers contradicts passages like 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, which suggest all believers are raptured and resurrected together. Critics argue that the Bible does not support a tiered resurrection for believers based on faithfulness.
  4. Vague Criteria for Exclusion:
    • Faust does not clearly define what sins lead to exclusion (e.g., "willful sin," "disobedience," or "sloth"). Critics argue this ambiguity creates fear and uncertainty, contradicting the comfort of passages like 1 Thessalonians 5:9-11 ("God hath not appointed us to wrath").
  5. Historical Misrepresentation:
    • While Faust cites early church fathers and premillennialists, critics note that these figures did not teach his extreme views (e.g., believers in the lake of fire). They argue that Faust cherry-picks quotes to bolster his position, ignoring broader historical context.
  6. Divisiveness:
    • Faust’s teachings have led to broken fellowship with other Baptist groups, as noted by Long Run Baptist Church and others, who view his doctrine as a "divisive heresy" that undermines the assurance of salvation.
Faust’s Responses to Objections

In The Rod: Will God Spare It?, Faust addresses common objections:
  1. Purgatory Comparison:
    • He argues that Millennial Exclusion is distinct from Purgatory because it is temporary, tied to the Millennium, and based on biblical accountability rather than Catholic traditions.
  2. Scriptural Misinterpretation:
    • Faust contends that critics misread passages like 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 by limiting the fire to works, not persons. He cites historical premillennialists to support his view that the fire tests the believer’s character.
  3. Eternal Security:
    • He emphasizes that his doctrine upholds eternal security, as excluded believers are ultimately restored after the Millennium, distinguishing it from Arminianism or Calvinism.
  4. Motivation for Holiness:
    • Faust argues that Millennial Exclusion provides a necessary "accountability truth" to counter antinomianism (the belief that grace excuses sin without consequences). He believes it motivates Christians to live holy lives.
Broader Implications and Reception
  • Supporters: Faust’s teachings resonate with some premillennialists who emphasize accountability and rewards. His book is praised by some for its extensive citations of historical figures and its call to holy living.
  • Critics: The majority of responses, particularly from Baptist and Free Grace circles, are negative, labeling Faust’s views as heretical, extreme, and akin to a "Baptist Purgatory." His emphasis on believers facing the "second death" or the lake of fire is seen as particularly problematic.
  • Impact: Faust’s teachings have caused division within Baptist communities, leading to his exclusion from fellowship with some churches. His book is considered controversial, with some predicting it could be "the most controversial Christian work of this age."
Conclusion

Millennial Exclusion and Kingdom Exclusion, as taught by Joey Faust, are theological doctrines that assert unfaithful Christians, while eternally secure, may face temporary exclusion from the Millennial Kingdom and severe chastisements (e.g., temporary soul death, banishment to a fiery underworld) due to disobedience or failure to overcome. Rooted in a premillennialist framework, Faust’s teachings rely on interpretations of passages like 1 Corinthians 3:13-15, Revelation 2-3, and Matthew 25:30, but they are criticized for lacking clear scriptural support, resembling Catholic Purgatory, and creating fear rather than comfort for believers. While Faust cites historical figures to bolster his case, critics argue that his views are an extreme departure from mainstream evangelical theology, leading to significant controversy and division. For a deeper exploration, readers may consult Faust’s The Rod: Will God Spare It? or critical reviews like those from the Grace Evangelical Society or Baptist Board discussions.
It seems they all have the same message in mind.
That being...keep on committing sin, and your only loss will be a delayed start to paradise.
The hall-mark of all(?) false doctrines...keep on committing sin !


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Re: Millennial Exclusion; Kingdom Exclusion

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Hill Top wrote: Wed Aug 27, 2025 12:47 am It seems they all have the same message in mind.
That being...keep on committing sin, and your only loss will be a delayed start to paradise.
The hall-mark of all(?) false doctrines...keep on committing sin !
Out of curiosity, how do you view the Judgment Seat of Christ? Do you think you'll have any wood, hay, or stubble? How could you or anyone that is sinless have any?

Thinking further, wouldn't you only have precious stones? As they are better than gold and silver?

Just wondering?


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Them That Believe Shall Lay Hands On the Sick, and They Shall Recover
Posts: 812
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: Millennial Exclusion; Kingdom Exclusion

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote: Thu Aug 28, 2025 8:26 pm
Hill Top wrote: Wed Aug 27, 2025 12:47 am It seems they all have the same message in mind.
That being...keep on committing sin, and your only loss will be a delayed start to paradise.
The hall-mark of all(?) false doctrines...keep on committing sin !
Out of curiosity, how do you view the Judgment Seat of Christ? Do you think you'll have any wood, hay, or stubble? How could you or anyone that is sinless have any?

Thinking further, wouldn't you only have precious stones? As they are better than gold and silver?

Just wondering?
I feel that the "works" laid on the foundation of Jesus Christ, are the people who have been (allegedly) converted by our efforts.
Those who remained faithful will be accounted as the gold, silver, and gems.
The wood, hay, and stubble, will be those that have fallen back into sin.

I pray everyday for those I have spoken the word to, that they will be accounted as gems on the day of judgement.


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Re: Millennial Exclusion; Kingdom Exclusion

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Hill Top wrote: Wed Aug 27, 2025 12:47 am It seems they all have the same message in mind.
That being...keep on committing sin, and your only loss will be a delayed start to paradise.
The hall-mark of all(?) false doctrines...keep on committing sin !


Spiritblade Disciple wrote: Thu Aug 28, 2025 8:26 pm Out of curiosity, how do you view the Judgment Seat of Christ? Do you think you'll have any wood, hay, or stubble? How could you or anyone that is sinless have any?

Thinking further, wouldn't you only have precious stones? As they are better than gold and silver?

Just wondering?


Hill Top wrote: Fri Aug 29, 2025 10:55 pm I feel that the "works" laid on the foundation of Jesus Christ, are the people who have been (allegedly) converted by our efforts.
Those who remained faithful will be accounted as the gold, silver, and gems.
The wood, hay, and stubble, will be those that have fallen back into sin.

I pray everyday for those I have spoken the word to, that they will be accounted as gems on the day of judgement.
Would you say that only those that are accounted as gems achieve final salvation? If not, why would some (if sinless after water baptism) be only silver or gold, rather than gems?


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Re: Millennial Exclusion; Kingdom Exclusion

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote: Sat Aug 30, 2025 8:00 pm Out of curiosity, how do you view the Judgment Seat of Christ? Do you think you'll have any wood, hay, or stubble? How could you or anyone that is sinless have any?
Thinking further, wouldn't you only have precious stones? As they are better than gold and silver?
Just wondering?
Hill Top wrote: Fri Aug 29, 2025 10:55 pm I feel that the "works" laid on the foundation of Jesus Christ, are the people who have been (allegedly) converted by our efforts.
Those who remained faithful will be accounted as the gold, silver, and gems.
The wood, hay, and stubble, will be those that have fallen back into sin.
I pray everyday for those I have spoken the word to, that they will be accounted as gems on the day of judgement.
Would you say that only those that are accounted as gems achieve final salvation? If not, why would some (if sinless after water baptism) be only silver or gold, rather than gems?
Those labeled as gems will be judged worthy of eternal life.
I feel that any difference between "gems" and "gold/silver" will only be a measure of what our converts did with the gifts God gave them for His purposes.
The parable of the money left to the servants comes to mind.
The man who was given a talent, and turned it into ten talents, would be a gem.
The man given a talent and turned it into five talents, would be gold or silver.
The man who buried his talent will be the hay/stubble.

I pray that my life will be accounted of as a "gem", to he who brought me to conversion.
I am someone else's fruit.


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Re: Millennial Exclusion; Kingdom Exclusion

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Hill Top wrote: Mon Sep 01, 2025 12:35 am Those labeled as gems will be judged worthy of eternal life.
I feel that any difference between "gems" and "gold/silver" will only be a measure of what our converts did with the gifts God gave them for His purposes.
The parable of the money left to the servants comes to mind.
The man who was given a talent, and turned it into ten talents, would be a gem.
The man given a talent and turned it into five talents, would be gold or silver.
The man who buried his talent will be the hay/stubble.

I pray that my life will be accounted of as a "gem", to he who brought me to conversion.
I am someone else's fruit.
So, "gems will be judged worthy of eternal life, but "gold/silver" will not?


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Re: Millennial Exclusion; Kingdom Exclusion

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote: Mon Sep 01, 2025 2:19 pm
Hill Top wrote: Mon Sep 01, 2025 12:35 am Those labeled as gems will be judged worthy of eternal life.
I feel that any difference between "gems" and "gold/silver" will only be a measure of what our converts did with the gifts God gave them for His purposes.
The parable of the money left to the servants comes to mind.
The man who was given a talent, and turned it into ten talents, would be a gem.
The man given a talent and turned it into five talents, would be gold or silver.
The man who buried his talent will be the hay/stubble.

I pray that my life will be accounted of as a "gem", to he who brought me to conversion.
I am someone else's fruit.
So, "gems will be judged worthy of eternal life, but "gold/silver" will not?
That which determines if those we convert are gems, gold, or even hay, will be what they did with their lives.
That which can be burned won't pass the "test" of faithfulness.
Gems, gold, and silver, won't be burned on the day of judgement.


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