Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Baptismal Regeneration

[Spiritblade Disciple]

Mark. 16:15-16;
And Jesus said to them, Go you into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believes not shall be damned.

Jesus states very clearly in verse 16 that water baptism has nothing to do with being born-again, for if it did Jesus would have said in the second half of v 16 but he that believes not and does not get baptized shall be damned.

1. Does He actually state that baptism has nothing to do with being born again?

2. Does it read, "He that believes and is saved shall be baptized"?

3. Why do you believe that "shall be saved" is the same thing as being born again? What if the two are not the same thing?

[macca]

Matthew 28:18-20;
All authority has been given to Me in heaven and earth.
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.

Mark 16:15-18;
Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
They will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick and they will recover.

Luke 24:46-49;
Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and rise from the dead after the third day.
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
And you are witnesses of these things.
Behold, I send the promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.

John 17:6-26;
Please read and study these verses for they belong with the others I have written out, here are a few.
Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
As you sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;

As we can see these words of Jesus are spoken in the future tense for after He goes back to heaven and after the Holy Spirit comes upon them and they are baptized into the Holy Spirit and Power.

[macca]

Acts. 1:4-8;
And being assembled together with them, He commended them not to depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which you have heard from Me;
For John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.
Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him saying Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?
And He said to them, It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.
But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.

120 born-again then when Peter preached the gospel to the crowd that gathered around them about 3,000 souls were added.
As per Romans. 10:6-17;
This what Jesus was talking about when He said they will be saved.

[Spiritblade Disciple]

120 born-again

In your understanding, when were the 120 born again?

[macca]

Before they were baptized in the Holy Spirit, as they were witnesses to Jesus's resurrection before He ascended into heaven.
Acts. 1:9; + 1 Corinthians. 15:1-7;

[macca]

And along with that fact is water baptism was not necessary for the born-again experience as in Acts. 10: and 1 Corinthians. 1:17;

[macca]

Another interesting tid bit in Acts. 1:15; And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples ( altogether the number of NAMES was about a 120 ), and said.
There must have been a list of the 120 disciples names around when Luke wrote Acts.

[Hill Top]

And along with that fact is water baptism was not necessary for the born-again experience as in Acts. 10: and 1 Corinthians. 1:17;

Repentance from sin and rebirth weren't 'listed' either.
Will any unrepentant, unreborn man go to heaven ?
No.
Just because certain aspects of Christianity are not listed in certain contexts, doesn't nullify their necessity.

[Spiritblade Disciple]

And along with that fact is water baptism was not necessary for the born-again experience as in Acts. 10: and 1 Corinthians. 1:17;

Repentance from sin and rebirth weren't 'listed' either.
Will any unrepentant, unreborn man go to heaven ?
No.
Just because certain aspects of Christianity are not listed in certain contexts, doesn't nullify their necessity.

I recently started looking into Mid-Acts Dispensationalism, again, Hill Top.
The adherents of M.A.D. do not believe that repentance is necessary to be saved. Just belief that the individual is a sinner, and in Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection. Thus, Paul's Gospel in 1st Cor. 15 doesn't include repentance from sin as a requirement.

Not saying that M.A.D. is right, but it is interesting.

[Spiritblade Disciple]

120 born-again

In your understanding, when were the 120 born again?

Before they were baptized in the Holy Spirit, as they were witnesses to Jesus's resurrection before He ascended into heaven.
Acts. 1:9; + 1 Corinthians. 15:1-7;

And along with that fact is water baptism was not necessary for the born-again experience as in Acts. 10: and 1 Corinthians. 1:17;

Another interesting tid bit in Acts. 1:15; And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples ( altogether the number of NAMES was about a 120 ), and said.
There must have been a list of the 120 disciples names around when Luke wrote Acts.

Water baptism isn't listed as a requirement in Acts 15:1-4, either. But, it does make salvation contingent upon maintaining certain facts in memory. What happens to dementia patients or others who lose their memories?

Also, why continue to equate "saved" with "the born again experience"? What scriptures prove that the two things are the same thing?