Dake Bible Discussion BoardShould Soldiers Stop Soldiering?

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luchnia
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Re: Should Soldiers Stop Soldiering?

Post by luchnia »

Hill Top wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:18 pm
luchnia wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:18 am
Hill Top wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:05 pm
luchnia wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:41 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:51 pm
luchnia wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:56 am
I wonder how many pacifist would change when a rapist attempts to rape their child and kill their family. What if there becomes an altercation and the the attacker gets killed in that altercation? Situations can be very different, but there have been times when the strictest of pacifist had decided to kill to save their family, or in many cases to save others.
The non-Christians pacifists can break as many vows as they wish...from their fleshly existence.
I was not referring to a non-Christian. I already know what evil doers do, Christians defend the lives of their family against evil doers.
Christians pray to God for His protection.
They adhere to the Godly exhortations designed for their protection.
I agree and His answers are often give them a sword (exhortation) to defend themselves as Jesus did the disciples on certain of their journeys. BTW, that is NT.
Where...in the NT?
What are the "Godly exhortations" designed for their protection?

Do you think that defending the lives of your family is part of your God given responsibility to provide for your family? In other words would you do what it takes to save them in the face of wickedness?

I don't ever desire to face an attacker and consider myself a meek man, but I realize it is my Christian duty to defend my family against wickedness if it is ever needed. God has placed me in a position of responsibility. I would be an infidel not to.

Did you know that a man that doesn't defend his goods with the armor provided him will allow a stronger man to overtake him and divide his goods? That man is against doing what Jesus required. Do you think that man is a man of honor before the Lord? Lk 11:21-22

If you want to know about Jesus telling the disciples to get sword read Luke 22 toward the later part of the chapter. I think it is around verses 32-40.


Word up!

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: Should Soldiers Stop Soldiering?

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Hill Top wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:34 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:53 pm
Phil,
I did not put those verses in the Bible.
The Christian wars against the world,the flesh and the devil. I was not talking about carnal warfare.

Hill Top wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:14 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:36 am
Born Again Christians are in the Army of the Lord.

See Ephesians 6:10-18 they are to wear armor.

2 Corinthians 10:3-5 Saint Paul says believers war and have weapons.

We are told to fight the good fight of faith 1 Timothy 6:12.

1 Timothy 1:18, 2 Timothy 2:3-4 " Therefore endure hardness as a good soldier of Jesus Christ."
Our warfare isn't against men, but against wickedness.
Shouldn't we carry things a step further?
Shouldn't we all be carrying weapons to thwart wickedness in our streets?
It is written..."(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)"
You seem to be advocating taking up carnal weapons.
St. John Chrysostom (recognized as a saint in the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Lutheran (and other Protestant traditions) actually preached just that. He taught that those that plot evil ought to fear being caught in the act by Christians, who he thought should defend the poor, fatherless, widows, and the weak. The legal system wasn't nearly as good in his day, so he preached that Christians ought to be God's ministers in these matters.


Matthew 5:19-20 New King James Version
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: Criminals Would Over Run the Place!

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Hill Top wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:39 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:21 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:09 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:39 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:08 pm
If God is telling you to kill, in the NT, you should consult a psychologist.
It is written..."Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." (Rom 12:19)
Not talking vigilantism. We're talking about soldiers and governing authorities who are God's ministers to execute vengeance and wrath and do nor bear the sword in vain.
Those "ministers" need not be lovers of God and lovers of neighbor as self.
God can and does use the wicked for His purposes...ie. Egyptians and Persians.
Wouldn't it be better if all government officials and soldiers were truly Christians? Or, do you think that'd be a bad thing?
It would be better, but as advocates of obedience to God will "do no violence", the criminals would over run the place unless God stepped in to do as He will eventually do anyway.
Well, I think I've adequately explained that I do not view the proper exercise of law enforcement or even the proper use of force in war as violence. Rather, I view violence as the improper use of such things.

Following the logic that only the unsaved should be in law enforcement, government, or the armed forces, would, I think, lead to a world that is much less like one where God's will is done in Earth as in Heaven. Might as well pray that the unsaved rule Heaven...

And, just as that is contrary to what ought to be, so I have great difficulty believing that anyone that is against God's justice (including the death penalty) being carried out in this world. I do not believe that such people love either God or neighbor as they ought.


Matthew 5:19-20 New King James Version
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: Soldiers & Government Officials Can't Be Christians

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Hill Top wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:39 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:21 pm
Also, is it impossible for soldiers or government officials to be real Christians?
I do feel that way.
Christians align themselves with God, and by swearing an allegiance to something else have turned that "something else" into an idol.
I'm saddened that you feel this way.


Matthew 5:19-20 New King James Version
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

Hill Top
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Re: Should Soldiers Stop Soldiering?

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:55 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:34 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:53 pm
Phil,
I did not put those verses in the Bible.
The Christian wars against the world,the flesh and the devil. I was not talking about carnal warfare.

Hill Top wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:14 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:36 am
Born Again Christians are in the Army of the Lord.

See Ephesians 6:10-18 they are to wear armor.

2 Corinthians 10:3-5 Saint Paul says believers war and have weapons.

We are told to fight the good fight of faith 1 Timothy 6:12.

1 Timothy 1:18, 2 Timothy 2:3-4 " Therefore endure hardness as a good soldier of Jesus Christ."
Our warfare isn't against men, but against wickedness.
Shouldn't we carry things a step further?
Shouldn't we all be carrying weapons to thwart wickedness in our streets?
It is written..."(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)"
You seem to be advocating taking up carnal weapons.
St. John Chrysostom (recognized as a saint in the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Lutheran (and other Protestant traditions) actually preached just that. He taught that those that plot evil ought to fear being caught in the act by Christians, who he thought should defend the poor, fatherless, widows, and the weak. The legal system wasn't nearly as good in his day, so he preached that Christians ought to be God's ministers in these matters.
Vigilantism?
Trust in God instead.



Hill Top
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Re: Soldiers & Government Officials Can't Be Christians

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:03 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:39 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:21 pm
Also, is it impossible for soldiers or government officials to be real Christians?
I do feel that way.
Christians align themselves with God, and by swearing an allegiance to something else have turned that "something else" into an idol.
I'm saddened that you feel this way.
I'm not an idol worshiper, no matter what flag they fly.



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luchnia
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
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Re: Criminals Would Over Run the Place!

Post by luchnia »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:02 pm
And, just as that is contrary to what ought to be, so I have great difficulty believing that anyone that is against God's justice (including the death penalty) being carried out in this world. I do not believe that such people love either God or neighbor as they ought.
These are powerful statements and would place HT in an interesting position as one whom does not love God or neighbor. I can see the concept of this by seeing his view against God's justice being carried out as you put it, yet I keep wondering if this is simply one of ignorance. I feel we are all ignorant about many things, yet some of us are not willing to grow past that ignorance in truth.

To make claims that those who carry guns such as soldiers (police too) are evil-doers is totally out of sync with God's word and even common sense without much biblical knowledge would show otherwise. Is it possible though, this issue as with the lack of understanding the water baptism thing, is simply one of ignorance?

Are you forming that observation because there is no openness to the other scriptures to learn the truth about these things? I am wondering because this has crossed my mind as well while discussion these issues, and I can remember times when I was so immature in God's word that I did the exact same thing.

In looking back at those times of ignorance I realize my errors, but I cannot go back and undo any of it. I have often wished I could certain things though as I know in my ignorance I misled some folks.


Word up!

Hill Top
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Re: Criminals Would Over Run the Place!

Post by Hill Top »

luchnia wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:57 am
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:02 pm
And, just as that is contrary to what ought to be, so I have great difficulty believing that anyone that is against God's justice (including the death penalty) being carried out in this world. I do not believe that such people love either God or neighbor as they ought.
These are powerful statements and would place HT in an interesting position as one whom does not love God or neighbor. I can see the concept of this by seeing his view against God's justice being carried out as you put it, yet I keep wondering if this is simply one of ignorance. I feel we are all ignorant about many things, yet some of us are not willing to grow past that ignorance in truth.

To make claims that those who carry guns such as soldiers (police too) are evil-doers is totally out of sync with God's word and even common sense without much biblical knowledge would show otherwise. Is it possible though, this issue as with the lack of understanding the water baptism thing, is simply one of ignorance?

Are you forming that observation because there is no openness to the other scriptures to learn the truth about these things? I am wondering because this has crossed my mind as well while discussion these issues, and I can remember times when I was so immature in God's word that I did the exact same thing.

In looking back at those times of ignorance I realize my errors, but I cannot go back and undo any of it. I have often wished I could certain things though as I know in my ignorance I misled some folks.
I guess now that you are without sin you CAN throw the first stone.



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branham1965
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Re: Should You Go to the Doctor?

Post by branham1965 »

Phil,
Do you go to the doctor or the hospital if needed??
Hill Top wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:06 am
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:55 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:34 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:53 pm
Phil,
I did not put those verses in the Bible.
The Christian wars against the world,the flesh and the devil. I was not talking about carnal warfare.

Hill Top wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:14 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:36 am
Born Again Christians are in the Army of the Lord.

See Ephesians 6:10-18 they are to wear armor.

2 Corinthians 10:3-5 Saint Paul says believers war and have weapons.

We are told to fight the good fight of faith 1 Timothy 6:12.

1 Timothy 1:18, 2 Timothy 2:3-4 " Therefore endure hardness as a good soldier of Jesus Christ."
Our warfare isn't against men, but against wickedness.
Shouldn't we carry things a step further?
Shouldn't we all be carrying weapons to thwart wickedness in our streets?
It is written..."(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)"
You seem to be advocating taking up carnal weapons.
St. John Chrysostom (recognized as a saint in the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Lutheran (and other Protestant traditions) actually preached just that. He taught that those that plot evil ought to fear being caught in the act by Christians, who he thought should defend the poor, fatherless, widows, and the weak. The legal system wasn't nearly as good in his day, so he preached that Christians ought to be God's ministers in these matters.
Vigilantism?
Trust in God instead.
Last edited by branham1965 on Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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luchnia
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Re: Criminals Would Over Run the Place!

Post by luchnia »

Hill Top wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:56 pm
luchnia wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:57 am
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:02 pm
And, just as that is contrary to what ought to be, so I have great difficulty believing that anyone that is against God's justice (including the death penalty) being carried out in this world. I do not believe that such people love either God or neighbor as they ought.
These are powerful statements and would place HT in an interesting position as one whom does not love God or neighbor. I can see the concept of this by seeing his view against God's justice being carried out as you put it, yet I keep wondering if this is simply one of ignorance. I feel we are all ignorant about many things, yet some of us are not willing to grow past that ignorance in truth.

To make claims that those who carry guns such as soldiers (police too) are evil-doers is totally out of sync with God's word and even common sense without much biblical knowledge would show otherwise. Is it possible though, this issue as with the lack of understanding the water baptism thing, is simply one of ignorance?

Are you forming that observation because there is no openness to the other scriptures to learn the truth about these things? I am wondering because this has crossed my mind as well while discussion these issues, and I can remember times when I was so immature in God's word that I did the exact same thing.

In looking back at those times of ignorance I realize my errors, but I cannot go back and undo any of it. I have often wished I could certain things though as I know in my ignorance I misled some folks.
I guess now that you are without sin you CAN throw the first stone.
Your perception and what you assume is rather interesting. Why not attempt to understand the post and the question posed to SBD? I am interested in his point of view as he posted.


Word up!

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