Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ KEEP REPENTING OR ETERNAL SECURITY?

[bibleman]

I don't encourage folks to "sin less".
I let them know they don't have to sin at all.
Jesus commanded it in Matt 5:48.

Well my friend why not lead the way by example.

Scripture teaches us: 1 Peter 5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: 7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

You have NOT cast all your care on the Lord!
You admit that you are scared that things may not work out right for you. (You hold on to your cares)
You also have refused to repent of your sin of fear. That is pride.

So don't you think you should lead the way in showing us how to repent... and stop sinning by forsaking your pride... and asking God to forgive you of your doubting Him and being scared that He won't see you through?

[luchnia]

Rejoicing because you are sick? You might ask God to keep you sick and also fill you with so much disease since that brings Him glory.

That is what Paul did, isn't it?
It is written..." For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong." (2 Cor 12:8-10)

What sickness and diseases did Paul have? Are you one of the folks that believe Paul was blind and had some type of disease?

Who knows, as it isn't written: but he did "take pleasure in infinities".

Why do you assume that weakness is sickness?

I don't, as infirmity was also the table.
Paul made it clear enough in 2 Cor 12:8-10..."For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong."

Fantastic, at least you don't take pleasure in sickness. Praise God for that!

[Hill Top]

I don't encourage folks to "sin less".
I let them know they don't have to sin at all.
Jesus commanded it in Matt 5:48.

Well my friend why not lead the way by example.

Scripture teaches us: 1 Peter 5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: 7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

You have NOT cast all your care on the Lord!
You admit that you are scared that things may not work out right for you. (You hold on to your cares)
You also have refused to repent of your sin of fear. That is pride.

So don't you think you should lead the way in showing us how to repent... and stop sinning by forsaking your pride... and asking God to forgive you of your doubting Him and being scared that He won't see you through?

There is nothing to repent of.
I am prepared for the surgery no matter what I feel about it.
Real fear would cause me to forego it.

I'll repent of my trepidation when Jesus repents of His in the Garden.
You call me a sinner, so you call Jesus a sinner too.

[Hill Top]

Back to the OP...
It seems that everyone here is in the "Keep repenting" camp.
What does "repent" mean to you?
To me, it means "turn from" in this case...from sin.
If we have turned from sin, how is it possible that we can sin again?
We have turned from it, so sin should be only in our past...it is what we have, by the grace of God, turned from.
If we sin again, the turn is shown to be false...right?
Some differentiate between sins, saying they have repented of some or most sins but still have trouble with one or two others.
This isn't a repentance from sin, but repentance from some sin.
And it is useless.
We cant bear the fruit of two different progenitors.

The other option of the OP was "eternal security".
There are aspects of this idea that are good and some that are evil.
Some use 1 John 3:9 to assure themselves that the seed of God within them can prevent sin.
Others use the term "Eternal security" to erroneously say they are already saved, no matter what they do after a profession of faith. This idea refutes John's message in 1 John 3:9-10. (And numerous other scriptures too.)

I am of the "The seed of God within me" prohibits me from bearing the fruit of the devil.
Is it possible for me to recant my profession? To return to a sinful life, or even a single sin?
Not if I want to keep calling myself a reborn son of God.

We can tell from whom a man is descended by the fruit he brings forth.
Fig trees cannot bring forth grapes.

[luchnia]

Back to the OP...
It seems that everyone here is in the "Keep repenting" camp.
What does "repent" mean to you?
To me, it means "turn from" in this case...from sin.
If we have turned from sin, how is it possible that we can sin again?
We have turned from it, so sin should be only in our past...it is what we have, by the grace of God, turned from.
If we sin again, the turn is shown to be false...right?
Some differentiate between sins, saying they have repented of some or most sins but still have trouble with one or two others.
This isn't a repentance from sin, but repentance from some sin.
And it is useless.
We cant bear the fruit of two different progenitors.

The other option of the OP was "eternal security".
There are aspects of this idea that are good and some that are evil.
Some use 1 John 3:9 to assure themselves that the seed of God within them can prevent sin.
Others use the term "Eternal security" to erroneously say they are already saved, no matter what they do after a profession of faith. This idea refutes John's message in 1 John 3:9-10. (And numerous other scriptures too.)

I am of the "The seed of God within me" prohibits me from bearing the fruit of the devil.
Is it possible for me to recant my profession? To return to a sinful life, or even a single sin?
Not if I want to keep calling myself a reborn son of God.

We can tell from whom a man is descended by the fruit he brings forth.
Fig trees cannot bring forth grapes.

You make some good points, yet once again you fail to understand the seed of God. Whosoever is born of God cannot sin because his seed remain in him, yet you continue to be blind to what can happen to that seed and add things to the verse such as seed of God prohibiting you from bearing fruit of the devil.

The verse makes no statement of prohibiting you from bearing fruit of the devil. That is on you and not on God's seed. YOU are responsible for what you do with the seed, yet you make God liable for what you do with His seed. Again you really have to understand the parable of the sower or you won't understand. How can you understand 1 Jn 3:9 if you do not understand the rest?

Why force something in the premise of 1 John 3:9 that is simply not there? Making verses mean what they do not will always end badly. We both know that whosoever is born of God does not commit sin, yet what do the other scriptures that John writes about those that do? How are those verses reconciled and with what weight are they viewed? Your posts have shown a basic disregard for the rest of the context of what John writes.

The "whosoever is born of God" is there in that verse for a reason. BTW, fig trees and grape vines can grow in the same garden, and poisonous weeds can grow there too. Also if the soil was tainted when the seed was planted that can be disastrous. If the poisonous weeds are not removed they will destroy the figs and grapes and no fruit will come forth and in most cases the plant will die. Can you explain why all this is and what is required to prevent it?

[luchnia]

Hilltop wrote, "You make some good points, yet once again you fail to understand the seed of God. Whosoever is born of God cannot sin because his seed remain in him, yet you continue to be blind to what can happen to that seed and add things to the verse such as seed of God prohibiting you from bearing fruit of the devil.

If a Christian can't sin why did Jesus warn the seven churches in Rev. 2 & 3 to "hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown"? and, "he that overcometh I will make a pillar in temple of my God"? Also, "to him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne"?

It's time to give it a rest, HT, and if you don't admit you are wrong, that would be another sin to add to your list that keeps growing.

I think you posted the wrong quote. That is from my post in reply to HT.

[Hill Top]

Back to the OP...
It seems that everyone here is in the "Keep repenting" camp.
What does "repent" mean to you?
To me, it means "turn from" in this case...from sin.
If we have turned from sin, how is it possible that we can sin again?
We have turned from it, so sin should be only in our past...it is what we have, by the grace of God, turned from.
If we sin again, the turn is shown to be false...right?
Some differentiate between sins, saying they have repented of some or most sins but still have trouble with one or two others.
This isn't a repentance from sin, but repentance from some sin.
And it is useless.
We cant bear the fruit of two different progenitors.

The other option of the OP was "eternal security".
There are aspects of this idea that are good and some that are evil.
Some use 1 John 3:9 to assure themselves that the seed of God within them can prevent sin.
Others use the term "Eternal security" to erroneously say they are already saved, no matter what they do after a profession of faith. This idea refutes John's message in 1 John 3:9-10. (And numerous other scriptures too.)

I am of the "The seed of God within me" prohibits me from bearing the fruit of the devil.
Is it possible for me to recant my profession? To return to a sinful life, or even a single sin?
Not if I want to keep calling myself a reborn son of God.

We can tell from whom a man is descended by the fruit he brings forth.
Fig trees cannot bring forth grapes.

You make some good points, yet once again you fail to understand the seed of God. Whosoever is born of God cannot sin because his seed remain in him, yet you continue to be blind to what can happen to that seed and add things to the verse such as seed of God prohibiting you from bearing fruit of the devil.

You are in direct opposition to what the scripture says..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:9-10)
What can possibly "happen to the seed of God" that can cause it to become the seed of the devil?

The verse makes no statement of prohibiting you from bearing fruit of the devil.

I'll remind you of..."In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:"

That is on you and not on God's seed. YOU are responsible for what you do with the seed, yet you make God liable for what you do with His seed.

If I am saying His seed within me keeps me from committing sin, any sin would declare the seed was not in me.
I hold God responsible for...keeping me free from committing sin.
Is that such a bad thing?

Again you really have to understand the parable of the sower or you won't understand. How can you understand 1 Jn 3:9 if you do not understand the rest?

Seed can only bring forth after its own kind. No matter what kind of soil it is in.

Why force something in the premise of 1 John 3:9 that is simply not there? Making verses mean what they do not will always end badly. We both know that whosoever is born of God does not commit sin, yet what do the other scriptures that John writes about those that do? How are those verses reconciled and with what weight are they viewed? Your posts have shown a basic disregard for the rest of the context of what John writes.

There are no scriptures that say they (those reborn of Gods seed) do.
I think that may be where you are getting off the track/truth.

The "whosoever is born of God" is there in that verse for a reason.

Agreed, as it separates God's children from the devil's children.

BTW, fig trees and grape vines can grow in the same garden, and poisonous weeds can grow there too. Also if the soil was tainted when the seed was planted that can be disastrous. If the poisonous weeds are not removed they will destroy the figs and grapes and no fruit will come forth and in most cases the plant will die. Can you explain why all this is and what is required to prevent it?

The fig, grape, and weed's seeds will never bring forth fruit from one another.
Ever.
How much fruit any certain kind of soil will allow the seed to yield is of no importance.
Grape seeds will never bear figs, and God's seed will never bear wickedness.

[Hill Top]

I am often astounded when the ignorant say, "Why did God do this to me?" We are in a world full of people that have no clue to who and what God is and how God works especially in the area of healing.

Amen to that.

Every calamity, disease, and sickness known to man is blamed on God. Simply turn on the evening news and watch as they report and listen to the silly things people say about what God did to them. It is sad really, even to the point of God saving them from something such as a house fire. They are dumbfounded when asked the question of why did God not save your neighbor's house from burning and chose you?

I've never heard any TV reporter ask anything in reference to God.
Which network's reporters mention God?

No wonder Christianity is not desired by many today. Who wants to serve a God that puts sickness, disease, and calamity on you which brings a life of misery?

I have heard survivors on TV mention how thankful they are that God saved them from x, y, or z.

How is any of this relevant to the OP?

[branham1965]

NO one ever
mentions the great and ruthless opposition of Satan , evil spirits or demon power against believers and the world ??!!

Reverend Dake's
Bible Truths Unmasked has two chapters with profuse Bible verses and scholarly exposition about Satan,Fallen Angels,and Demons.

[Grandfather]

Fear is the opposite of faith and comes from ignorance of the Truth.

And yet, it is written..."The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: " (Pro 9:10)
Not all fear is bad.
There are a bunch more verses about fear in Proverbs...all t o the glory of God.

Please define what you mean by FEAR in the context of the statement FEAR of the Lord.

Thanks