Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Are homosexuals, trans, lesbians, & perverts of all sexual persuasions... demon possessed?

[bibleman]

Are homosexuals, trans, lesbians, and perverts of all sexual persuasions... demon possessed?

"Seducing spirits influence people to hinder and operate against wedlock by enticing them to meet the demands of the sex drive apart from the sanctity of marriage.

To heed (as in "giving heed to seducing spirits," 1Tim. 4:1) means to pay attention to and act under the leadership and control of.

Hence, those who satisfy their sex needs through perversions -- any of the ways contrary to what is approved by Scripture -- are under the control, more or less, of demons (Rom. 1:21-28; Lev. 20:13; Joel 3:3)."

Finis Jennings Dake, Dake's Annotated Reference Bible: Containing the Old and New Testaments of the Authorized or King James Version Text, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Bible Sales, Inc., 1997), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "Chapter 4".

[Ironman]

Yes, according to 1:Tim. 4:1;

! Timothy 4:1, Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to SEDUCING SPIRITS, and doctrines of DEVILS;

[luchnia]

Are homosexuals, trans, lesbians, and perverts of all sexual persuasions... demon possessed?

"Seducing spirits influence people to hinder and operate against wedlock by enticing them to meet the demands of the sex drive apart from the sanctity of marriage.

To heed (as in "giving heed to seducing spirits," 1Tim. 4:1) means to pay attention to and act under the leadership and control of.

Hence, those who satisfy their sex needs through perversions -- any of the ways contrary to what is approved by Scripture -- are under the control, more or less, of demons (Rom. 1:21-28; Lev. 20:13; Joel 3:3)."

Finis Jennings Dake, Dake's Annotated Reference Bible: Containing the Old and New Testaments of the Authorized or King James Version Text, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Bible Sales, Inc., 1997), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "Chapter 4".

I think I might argue about demon possession in all cases. Some are simply done out of ignorance. An example would be where a child is involved and is taught they are a trans by the parent(s) and yet they are simply ignorant about it. It could be that they were taught that is ok and they don't even know better. We are seeing more and more examples here in the USA of this type of thing happening.

I saw a story not long ago where a mother taught her young boy he was not a boy and should be a girl and had set forth to change the young boy's life. You could tell by the child's facial expressions that the child simply did not understand and was so confused. That was so heart-breaking to watch, but in this case the evil came through what the parent (being as dumb as a toothpick) had come to believe.

[bibleman]

Are homosexuals, trans, lesbians, and perverts of all sexual persuasions... demon possessed?

"Seducing spirits influence people to hinder and operate against wedlock by enticing them to meet the demands of the sex drive apart from the sanctity of marriage.

To heed (as in "giving heed to seducing spirits," 1Tim. 4:1) means to pay attention to and act under the leadership and control of.

Hence, those who satisfy their sex needs through perversions -- any of the ways contrary to what is approved by Scripture -- are under the control, more or less, of demons (Rom. 1:21-28; Lev. 20:13; Joel 3:3)."

Finis Jennings Dake, Dake's Annotated Reference Bible: Containing the Old and New Testaments of the Authorized or King James Version Text, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Bible Sales, Inc., 1997), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "Chapter 4".

I think I might argue about demon possession in all cases. Some are simply done out of ignorance. An example would be where a child is involved and is taught they are a trans by the parent(s) and yet they are simply ignorant about it. It could be that they were taught that is ok and they don't even know better. We are seeing more and more examples here in the USA of this type of thing happening.

I saw a story not long ago where a mother taught her young boy he was not a boy and should be a girl and had set forth to change the young boy's life. You could tell by the child's facial expressions that the child simply did not understand and was so confused. That was so heart-breaking to watch, but in this case the evil came through what the parent (being as dumb as a toothpick) had come to believe.

Very good point! The innocent child is simply doing and being trained to do what the parent teaches and encourages them to do.

Well then that brings a second question... What about the parents who foster, encourage and teach this perversion to the child? Would they be considered demon possessed?

[luchnia]

Are homosexuals, trans, lesbians, and perverts of all sexual persuasions... demon possessed?

"Seducing spirits influence people to hinder and operate against wedlock by enticing them to meet the demands of the sex drive apart from the sanctity of marriage.

To heed (as in "giving heed to seducing spirits," 1Tim. 4:1) means to pay attention to and act under the leadership and control of.

Hence, those who satisfy their sex needs through perversions -- any of the ways contrary to what is approved by Scripture -- are under the control, more or less, of demons (Rom. 1:21-28; Lev. 20:13; Joel 3:3)."

Finis Jennings Dake, Dake's Annotated Reference Bible: Containing the Old and New Testaments of the Authorized or King James Version Text, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Bible Sales, Inc., 1997), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "Chapter 4".

I think I might argue about demon possession in all cases. Some are simply done out of ignorance. An example would be where a child is involved and is taught they are a trans by the parent(s) and yet they are simply ignorant about it. It could be that they were taught that is ok and they don't even know better. We are seeing more and more examples here in the USA of this type of thing happening.

I saw a story not long ago where a mother taught her young boy he was not a boy and should be a girl and had set forth to change the young boy's life. You could tell by the child's facial expressions that the child simply did not understand and was so confused. That was so heart-breaking to watch, but in this case the evil came through what the parent (being as dumb as a toothpick) had come to believe.

Very good point! The innocent child is simply doing and being trained to do what the parent teaches and encourages them to do.

Well then that brings a second question... What about the parents who foster, encourage and teach this perversion to the child? Would they be considered demon possessed?

For me, this poses an entirely different line of thinking when it comes to sin and its source. If the mom is truly ignorant and thinks what she is doing to the child is morally right, then to her she is doing the right thing. There are parents out there today that are worse ignorant than the children are and in some situations you just shake your head and wonder in amazement.

The young boy might say something like, "Mom, but I don't think I am a girl." Because the boy trust his mom and because of the mom's stupidity and her influence from others she continues to press the young boy that he is a girl. She wants him to be a girl. Society has convinced her there is nothing wrong with the young boy being a girl.

After all, parents are being flooded with these lies now days. They are beginning to think that gender is just another non-issue and means nothing at all. Doctors are cashing in on changing people and that is horrible to consider the long term effects of this on both the parents, the children, and society. It is that simple, but what isn't simple is the question of is she being evil, or did this evil come from somewhere else and the mom is an innocent victim just as the child is.

I am primarily thinking about the situation that I observed sometime back as well as a few others I have seen unfold. I am reminded of the scripture that states something along the lines of woe to the man by which sin comes and not so much the person it happened to. Is the parent and the child guilty of doing evil or is another source the actual guilty source?

Bibleman I am really curious as to how you view all this. We live in cloudy times when it comes to certain things. I may be wrong, however I am thinking we have to be cautious of how we charge some as evil-doers when they are taken away by ignorance. We walk in the light as we receive the light, but what if one does not have light in a certain area such as this?

A person has to know something is wrong before they can be guilty of wrong doing - at least in their spirit. Saul, before becoming Paul, was doing great harm to Christ by killing saints, yet he said he did it in clear conscience. Is the mom that don't have light about certain things held guilty for doing it, or is she guilty when she does know evil and then does it?

[bibleman]

Are homosexuals, trans, lesbians, and perverts of all sexual persuasions... demon possessed?

"Seducing spirits influence people to hinder and operate against wedlock by enticing them to meet the demands of the sex drive apart from the sanctity of marriage.

To heed (as in "giving heed to seducing spirits," 1Tim. 4:1) means to pay attention to and act under the leadership and control of.

Hence, those who satisfy their sex needs through perversions -- any of the ways contrary to what is approved by Scripture -- are under the control, more or less, of demons (Rom. 1:21-28; Lev. 20:13; Joel 3:3)."

Finis Jennings Dake, Dake's Annotated Reference Bible: Containing the Old and New Testaments of the Authorized or King James Version Text, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Bible Sales, Inc., 1997), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "Chapter 4".

I think I might argue about demon possession in all cases. Some are simply done out of ignorance. An example would be where a child is involved and is taught they are a trans by the parent(s) and yet they are simply ignorant about it. It could be that they were taught that is ok and they don't even know better. We are seeing more and more examples here in the USA of this type of thing happening.

I saw a story not long ago where a mother taught her young boy he was not a boy and should be a girl and had set forth to change the young boy's life. You could tell by the child's facial expressions that the child simply did not understand and was so confused. That was so heart-breaking to watch, but in this case the evil came through what the parent (being as dumb as a toothpick) had come to believe.

Very good point! The innocent child is simply doing and being trained to do what the parent teaches and encourages them to do.

Well then that brings a second question... What about the parents who foster, encourage and teach this perversion to the child? Would they be considered demon possessed?

For me, this poses an entirely different line of thinking when it comes to sin and its source. If the mom is truly ignorant and thinks what she is doing to the child is morally right, then to her she is doing the right thing. There are parents out there today that are worse ignorant than the children are and in some situations you just shake your head and wonder in amazement.

The young boy might say something like, "Mom, but I don't think I am a girl." Because the boy trust his mom and because of the mom's stupidity and her influence from others she continues to press the young boy that he is a girl. She wants him to be a girl. Society has convinced her there is nothing wrong with the young boy being a girl.

After all, parents are being flooded with these lies now days. They are beginning to think that gender is just another non-issue and means nothing at all. Doctors are cashing in on changing people and that is horrible to consider the long term effects of this on both the parents, the children, and society. It is that simple, but what isn't simple is the question of is she being evil, or did this evil come from somewhere else and the mom is an innocent victim just as the child is.

I am primarily thinking about the situation that I observed sometime back as well as a few others I have seen unfold. I am reminded of the scripture that states something along the lines of woe to the man by which sin comes and not so much the person it happened to. Is the parent and the child guilty of doing evil or is another source the actual guilty source?

Bibleman I am really curious as to how you view all this. We live in cloudy times when it comes to certain things. I may be wrong, however I am thinking we have to be cautious of how we charge some as evil-doers when they are taken away by ignorance. We walk in the light as we receive the light, but what if one does not have light in a certain area such as this?

A person has to know something is wrong before they can be guilty of wrong doing - at least in their spirit. Saul, before becoming Paul, was doing great harm to Christ by killing saints, yet he said he did it in clear conscience. Is the mom that don't have light about certain things held guilty for doing it, or is she guilty when she does know evil and then does it?

I really think that the MAIN, #1 tool of the devil is that of deception.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

So to a lesser or greater degree I think all humans who commit sin are deceived in some way. A sinful act may be that of the person entirely, based upon their own reasoning that looks through the lens of a fallen nature.

A sinful act may be that of the person who is encouraged by the devil and does not know it is the devil. And a sinful act may be that of the person who is under the control of the devil (possession).

In regard to sexual sin such as that which is against nature (trans, homosexual, perversion), I would think there would have to be the influence of the devil to some degree (from oppression to possession).

It may only be the encouragement or suggestions of the devil that instigates the sin in the person, or it could be that the devil has possessed the mind of the person to think a certain way.

This could be in the child themselves or in the parent that encourages or enforces this perversion in the life of the child.

But either way, I would not think it is brought on by a natural set of events, absent the influence of the devil/demons. It may be that person "believes" in their mind or heart that it is truly "them" - it is simply the devil using their own basic lust to plant the seed of perversion. James 1.

[luchnia]

I really think that the MAIN, #1 tool of the devil is that of deception.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

So to a lesser or greater degree I think all humans who commit sin are deceived in some way. A sinful act may be that of the person entirely, based upon their own reasoning that looks through the lens of a fallen nature.

A sinful act may be that of the person who is encouraged by the devil and does not know it is the devil. And a sinful act may be that of the person who is under the control of the devil (possession).

In regard to sexual sin such as that which is against nature (trans, homosexual, perversion), I would think there would have to be the influence of the devil to some degree (from oppression to possession).

It may only be the encouragement or suggestions of the devil that instigates the sin in the person, or it could be that the devil has possessed the mind of the person to think a certain way.

This could be in the child themselves or in the parent that encourages or enforces this perversion in the life of the child.

But either way, I would not think it is brought on by a natural set of events, absent the influence of the devil/demons. It may be that person "believes" in their mind or heart that it is truly "them" - it is simply the devil using their own basic lust to plant the seed of perversion. James 1.

Thanks Bibleman, I tend to agree here, yet there still is some areas of cloudiness to me. When I think of Eve's deception for instance, I think that she knew without a doubt that she was disobeying God because she fell into the deception and ate of the fruit knowing well that God told her not to eat of it.

We know that sin is from the evil one and some do become possessed as you mention. In Eve's case it simply appears to be deception, but is her deception the same as one that does something purely out of ignorance such as a child that changes genders because they are told by a parent they are a different gender? Such as the case of the young boy I was referring to in the earlier post.

There are so many examples of this we could get numb discussing it. I, like you, don't think natural events bring this type of sin on. Even animals do what is natural and don't have to think through this like humans do. It has to be backed by the influence of evil as it is against God's word.

I guess the point I am trying to make is since we know sin is a heart/spirit matter as James lets us know in chapter 1, then can sin be a simple matter of ignorance? In my mind I am thinking of the words, "Forgive them for they know not what they do." In other words, forgive them because they are ignorant of their actions as they were led to do this by someone else and did not know better.

I mean how can an ignorant young boy who has had his mom tell him that he is probably a girl that doesn't even know sin have sin birthed in his heart and sin? He is simply doing what his mom is telling him to do. I find it hard to say the boy has sinned in that case and in some ways even struggle to think the mom is guilty of choosing to disobey God because she doesn't know what is righteous, but is as dumb and ignorant as a box of rocks. Hard for me to believe a mom would do this to a child even out of ignorance, but it is happening more and more every day and the results are horrendous.

I am hoping that the light of God's word will bring us to understand how to discern these type of things so that we can be what we need to be operating in God's holiness in these days and times. I just wished things like this were more "cut and dry" for us, but I am not sure they will be as the days move forward.

[bibleman]

I really think that the MAIN, #1 tool of the devil is that of deception.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

So to a lesser or greater degree I think all humans who commit sin are deceived in some way. A sinful act may be that of the person entirely, based upon their own reasoning that looks through the lens of a fallen nature.

A sinful act may be that of the person who is encouraged by the devil and does not know it is the devil. And a sinful act may be that of the person who is under the control of the devil (possession).

In regard to sexual sin such as that which is against nature (trans, homosexual, perversion), I would think there would have to be the influence of the devil to some degree (from oppression to possession).

It may only be the encouragement or suggestions of the devil that instigates the sin in the person, or it could be that the devil has possessed the mind of the person to think a certain way.

This could be in the child themselves or in the parent that encourages or enforces this perversion in the life of the child.

But either way, I would not think it is brought on by a natural set of events, absent the influence of the devil/demons. It may be that person "believes" in their mind or heart that it is truly "them" - it is simply the devil using their own basic lust to plant the seed of perversion. James 1.

Thanks Bibleman, I tend to agree here, yet there still is some areas of cloudiness to me. When I think of Eve's deception for instance, I think that she knew without a doubt that she was disobeying God because she fell into the deception and ate of the fruit knowing well that God told her not to eat of it.

We know that sin is from the evil one and some do become possessed as you mention. In Eve's case it simply appears to be deception, but is her deception the same as one that does something purely out of ignorance such as a child that changes genders because they are told by a parent they are a different gender? Such as the case of the young boy I was referring to in the earlier post.

There are so many examples of this we could get numb discussing it. I, like you, don't think natural events bring this type of sin on. Even animals do what is natural and don't have to think through this like humans do. It has to be backed by the influence of evil as it is against God's word.

I guess the point I am trying to make is since we know sin is a heart/spirit matter as James lets us know in chapter 1, then can sin be a simple matter of ignorance? In my mind I am thinking of the words, "Forgive them for they know not what they do." In other words, forgive them because they are ignorant of their actions as they were led to do this by someone else and did not know better.

I mean how can an ignorant young boy who has had his mom tell him that he is probably a girl that doesn't even know sin have sin birthed in his heart and sin? He is simply doing what his mom is telling him to do. I find it hard to say the boy has sinned in that case and in some ways even struggle to think the mom is guilty of choosing to disobey God because she doesn't know what is righteous, but is as dumb and ignorant as a box of rocks. Hard for me to believe a mom would do this to a child even out of ignorance, but it is happening more and more every day and the results are horrendous.

I am hoping that the light of God's word will bring us to understand how to discern these type of things so that we can be what we need to be operating in God's holiness in these days and times. I just wished things like this were more "cut and dry" for us, but I am not sure they will be as the days move forward.

Yes I would say Eve knew she was disobeying but was led into that direction by deception from the devil himself.
1 Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
And NOT possessed (as in having no control to obey or not obey) but acted as a choice of her deceived will.

As to the child you brought up, well I would agree that the child is not possessed at the time (it could come later) but it was the influence of the parent that caused the sinful decision of the child.

"I guess the point I am trying to make is since we know sin is a heart/spirit matter as James lets us know in chapter 1, then can sin be a simple matter of ignorance? In my mind I am thinking of the words, "Forgive them for they know not what they do." In other words, forgive them because they are ignorant of their actions as they were led to do this by someone else and did not know better."

Yes can be committed through ignorance. I agree.

"I mean how can an ignorant young boy who has had his mom tell him that he is probably a girl that doesn't even know sin have sin birthed in his heart and sin? He is simply doing what his mom is telling him to do. I find it hard to say the boy has sinned in that case and in some ways even struggle to think the mom is guilty of choosing to disobey God because she doesn't know what is righteous, but is as dumb and ignorant as a box of rocks. Hard for me to believe a mom would do this to a child even out of ignorance, but it is happening more and more every day and the results are horrendous."

I understand, But the boy (if at the age of accountability) would still be guilty of sin, on his own merit. Yes Jesus did pray to forgive them, for they know not what they do. But still as by the very words of Jesus, forgiveness was needed or else Jesus would not have had to pray the prayer. And if forgiveness is needed then of course sin has been committed.

So to allow sinners a place of innocence just because they do what someone else tells them to do, does not rid them of the inner conscience that all men are born with, which if not seared and has been developed (matured to the age of accountability) will condemn their heart.

But as you say it is a very difficult subject to tackle to say the least. One thing is certain we must not do away with "The wages of sin is death" and "Sin is the transgression of the law." To allow someone to escape the death penalty for sin is something that the Bible would forbid.

[luchnia]

I can agree with Rev Dake that homo's and perverts are unclean but not that all the unclean are homo's or perverts.

This is sort of what is crossing my mind. If the child that is innocent is indeed guilty without any knowledge of it, then the rest of mankind is doomed as there are untold millions that are ignorant about many things. Look at countries that train young children to shoot other people. Those children have no clue what they are doing is wrong. It is a fact they beleive is is the right

I think Paul knew the difference between a sexual pervert and an innocent and ignorant child. There is no root of bitterness or perversion in many children that are being misled about their genders. They simply have no clue and cannot make a choice in the matter when the parent is leading them down this path. If there is an area that is not black and white this would more than likely qualify.

[Ironman]

"But think about it, if sin is "passed down", why didn't it pass down to girls too?"

Gen. 3:16. King James Bible
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Some women suffer in agony during childbirth.