Dake Bible Discussion BoardDake's Two Steps To Be Born Again

General Discussion Forum devoted to the study of God's Word in Honor of Finis J. Dake.
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dolph
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Dake's Two Steps To Be Born Again

Post by dolph »

In Dake's GPFM, Chapter 24, Dake says there are two necessary steps to be saved or born again. "It is taken for granted, however, that one recognizes that he is a sinner and that Christ died to save him from his sins. This being understood, there are only two things that must be done and they are: 1. Confession of sin or true repentance. 2. To believe God has forgiven him.

This is slightly different from Hilltop who recently said that 1John 1:7 should precede 1John 1:9 which says:

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Without putting too fine a point on it, I would side with the late, great Finis Jennings Dake on this one.



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macca
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Re: Dake's Two Steps To Be Born Again

Post by macca »

1 John is written to Christians.
They are already born again.



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Re: Dake's Two Steps To Be Born Again

Post by Hill Top »

dolph wrote:
Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:10 am
In Dake's GPFM, Chapter 24, Dake says there are two necessary steps to be saved or born again. "It is taken for granted, however, that one recognizes that he is a sinner and that Christ died to save him from his sins. This being understood, there are only two things that must be done and they are: 1. Confession of sin or true repentance. 2. To believe God has forgiven him.

This is slightly different from Hilltop who recently said that 1John 1:7 should precede 1John 1:9 which says:

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Without putting too fine a point on it, I would side with the late, great Finis Jennings Dake on this one.
Dolph, I actually did suggest that John would have put verse 9 ahead of verse 7 if he had written using a different format.
Confession does indeed precede baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
But, quite frankly, it doesn't really matter which comes first.

John used an A-B, A-B, A-B style of format in 1 John 1.
Paul used the same format many times, most evidently in Rom 8...(Spirit-flesh, Spirit-flesh, Spirit-flesh).
This system juxtaposes one condition or position against another condition or position in order to really accent the differences between the two.
In 1 John 1 the two conditions are, walking in the darkness/flesh, juxtaposed against walking in the light/God.
Verses 5, 7, and 9 address those walking in the light/God, while verses 6, 8, and 10 address those walking in darkness/sin.



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Re: Dake's Two Steps To Be Born Again

Post by Hill Top »

macca wrote:
Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:53 am
1 John is written to Christians.
They are already born again.
Hopefully, you are right.
But it is also about distinguishing the posers who walk in darkness/sin from those who walk in light/God.
Sinners are not born again.
1 John 3 makes that evident.



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dolph
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Re: Dake's Two Steps To Be Born Again

Post by dolph »

Hilltop, I apologize for reversing the order of the two verses in my quote of you, it was late. As you said, it makes little difference.

This chapter follows the previous chapter on sin, which to me was a pleasant surprise because it confirmed what I had always thought was the path to take when a true Christian sins and needs to get back to a righteous standing with God, ie., to repent of the sin and confess it to God which was Dake's step one. His second step, to really believe that you are born again was something I had, knowing myself, always done without putting in those words to God.

Never having read these words of Dake before, to my knowledge, it was a bit of a relief because I was expecting something a bit more complex from the great theologian after reading in the previous chapter that one must be born again when one sins, which I now understand to be completely true, but something I don't think many Christians are aware of.

Hilltop, may I ask a personal question? When were you born a again and what were the circumstances?

God bless, Dolph



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Re: Dake's Two Steps To Be Born Again

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dolph wrote:
Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:42 pm
Hilltop, I apologize for reversing the order of the two verses in my quote of you, it was late. As you said, it makes little difference.
No prob'.
This chapter follows the previous chapter on sin, which to me was a pleasant surprise because it confirmed what I had always thought was the path to take when a true Christian sins and needs to get back to a righteous standing with God, ie., to repent of the sin and confess it to God which was Dake's step one. His second step, to really believe that you are born again was something I had, knowing myself, always done without putting in those words to God.
Rev Dake and I differ on this, as I don't believe REAL Christians commit sin.
They have killed the old man, and been raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:307)
Sin was of the old life.
As it is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
With no "flesh", (fleshly oriented mind), no vile affections, and no lusts, sin cannot be conceived. (James 1:14-15)
Never having read these words of Dake before, to my knowledge, it was a bit of a relief because I was expecting something a bit more complex from the great theologian after reading in the previous chapter that one must be born again when one sins, which I now understand to be completely true, but something I don't think many Christians are aware of.
Repentance from sin is a turn from sinning.
If one sins after repentance, they show the first repentance to be a lie to God.
One can't forge a relationship with God that is based on a lie.
Further sin also shows that the aforementioned flesh, affections, and lusts were not crucified; ergo that sinner is "not Christ's", as per Gal 5:24.
Hilltop, may I ask a personal question? When were you born a again and what were the circumstances?
God bless, Dolph
My rebirth happened Nov 1, 2008, after my last sin.



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Re: Dake's Two Steps To Be Born Again

Post by luchnia »

dolph wrote:
Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:10 am
In Dake's GPFM, Chapter 24, Dake says there are two necessary steps to be saved or born again. "It is taken for granted, however, that one recognizes that he is a sinner and that Christ died to save him from his sins. This being understood, there are only two things that must be done and they are: 1. Confession of sin or true repentance. 2. To believe God has forgiven him.

This is slightly different from Hilltop who recently said that 1John 1:7 should precede 1John 1:9 which says:

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Without putting too fine a point on it, I would side with the late, great Finis Jennings Dake on this one.
Even before I knew of Dake, I knew the OSAS doctrine was false especially after studying Genesis and seeing where the serpent basically spoke OSAS. It is an extremely dangerous doctrine and doesn't take rocket science to see the errors in it when weighed against God's word.

Dake does a great job of breaking it down further by compiling all the related scripture to support his view. To even think that a man cannot fall from his born again position is ludicrous when so much of God's word is devoted to warning upon warning to the born again believer of not falling and what you must do to remain saved.

The scripture you posted would give quite a bit of light on this and it is not difficult to find many witness scriptures that confirm what the believer must do to remain born from above. The born again Christian walk is one of walking in the light, standing, remaining, enduring, being, staying, continuing, holding fast, not turning from, professing, believing, and so on it goes.


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dolph
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Re: Dake's Two Steps To Be Born Again

Post by dolph »

Hilltop said,
"Rev Dake and I differ on this, as I don't believe REAL Christians commit sin.
They have killed the old man, and been raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:307)
Sin was of the old life.
As it is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
With no "flesh", (fleshly oriented mind), no vile affections, and no lusts, sin cannot be conceived. (James 1:14-15)

Dolph: If true Christians don't sin, would you say that Peter was not saved when he denied Christ three times before the crucifixion? That Adam was never saved? Demos who left the faith? David with Basheba? Abraham when he lied to the King about Sarah?

Would you not admit that Christians are in a constant battle with the devil and his minions, principalities, powers, rulers of darkness of this world, spiritual wickedness in the heavenlies? Have you won every battle against Satan over the past 14 years?

John wrote, If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us, 1John 1:8. What say you? Dolph



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dolph
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Re: Dake's Two Steps To Be Born Again

Post by dolph »

Macca said,

1 John is written to Christians.
They are already born again.

Hilltop, How do you explain that? Why is John explaining to Christians what to do if they sin??



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Re: Dake's Two Steps To Be Born Again

Post by Hill Top »

dolph wrote:
Wed Aug 31, 2022 11:00 am
Hilltop said,
"Rev Dake and I differ on this, as I don't believe REAL Christians commit sin.
They have killed the old man, and been raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:307)
Sin was of the old life.
As it is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
With no "flesh", (fleshly oriented mind), no vile affections, and no lusts, sin cannot be conceived. (James 1:14-15)

Dolph: If true Christians don't sin, would you say that Peter was not saved when he denied Christ three times before the crucifixion? That Adam was never saved? Demos who left the faith? David with Basheba? Abraham when he lied to the King about Sarah?
Peter was still under the Mosaic Law, walking in the flesh, so had the Law's remedies for sin.
There were no Christians yet, so men could not yet crucify the flesh and start walking in the Spirit.
Peter was neither saved nor converted when he denied Christ.
Adam didn't have a Law to break, so no sin is charged.
Same for Abraham.
David had the Law's remedies for sinning. Yearly animal sacrifice.
Demos was not yet converted when he abandoned Paul's ministry.
All of us still have to experience the final judgement to determine if they/we are saved.
Would you not admit that Christians are in a constant battle with the devil and his minions, principalities, powers, rulers of darkness of this world, spiritual wickedness in the heavenlies? Have you won every battle against Satan over the past 14 years?
Absolutely.
The fight is ongoing, but as men now walking after the Spirit instead of after the flesh we can fight this battle from the perspective of being winners and not from the perspective of being losers.
John wrote, If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us, 1John 1:8. What say you? Dolph
Written of those still walking in darkness, sin...as are verses 6 and 10.
Sinners cannot say they have no sin...nor can they say they have fellowship with the Father.



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