Dake Bible Discussion BoardJesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

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Hill Top
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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

Post by Hill Top »

bibleman wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 3:32 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 2:59 pm
dolph wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:05 am
Thanks Hilltop and Macca. Hilltop disagreed with: "Dake adds, Sin is the spirit and nature of the devil working in the sons of disobedience; sin is a real person, apart from man and God."

I was a bit shocked by this at first but I believe it's true. Satan or one of his demons, which are evil persons or enities, constantly are on the prowel seeing who they may destroy. But if we are truely born again we have put the flesh to death and we won't respond to their temptations. Neither do we have a fallen nature since we were born again and we are no longer under the curse of the law if we are walking in the Spirit. Perhaps there are three parts to being born again: receiving a new heart/spirit, dying to the flesh and coming away from the world and be ye separate? It's often said, we have three enemies to fight as Christians: the devil, the flesh and the world. I imagine the theologins might use terms like salvation, sanctification, justification. What say you? Can you tie this all together? In Him, Dolph

PS- So, when I sin, yell at a receiver in anger for dropping a pass, I should confess my sin, repent of my behavior and recommit my allegiance to Christ as my Lord and Savior?

PPS- Dake points out that when we sin, we actually have made Satan our Lord. Agree?
If one sins, are you implying a new devil has been created?
If sin is a being that didn't exist until you created it, do you have the power to create devils by committing sin?
I can't disagree enough with Rev Dake on this one.
Where in the world did you get: "sin is a being that didn't exist until you created it,"
I have never heard of that in my life.
In the eighth post of page one, Dolph wrote..."3.We all know sin is transgression of the law but Dake adds, Sin is the spirit and nature of the devil working in the sons of disobedience;
sin is a real person, apart from man and God."
If sin is a person, he did not exist until a sin was committed.
I don't agree that sin is a person.



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macca
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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

Post by macca »

Hill Top wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:49 pm
macca wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:22 am
Hill Top
Luke.22:31-34;
And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat.
But I have prayed for you, that your faith will not fail: and when you are converted, strengthen your brethren.
And Peter said to Jesus, Lord I am ready to go with you, both to prison, and to death.
And Jesus said, I tell you Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before you shall three times DENY that you know me.

Matt. 10:33;
But whosoever shall DENY me before men, him will I also DENY before my Father who is in heaven.
"When you ARE converted" points to Peter's lack of conversion at that time.
As Peter had yet to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, his conversion was still pending.
He needed to repent of the sins before his conversion was finalized.

You are in error not knowing the word of God or His power
.
1 John 5:1;
Whosoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and everyone that loves Him that begat loves him also that is begotten of Him.

Matthew. 16:15;
Jesus said to them, but who do you say that I am?
And Simon Peter answered and said, you are The Christ, the Son of the living God.
And Jesus answered and said to him, blessed are you Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood has not revealed it to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
And I say also to you, That you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.



Hill Top
Repent and Be Baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ Because of the Remission of Sins
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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

Post by Hill Top »

macca wrote:
Sun Aug 28, 2022 11:20 am
Hill Top wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:49 pm
macca wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:22 am
Hill Top
Luke.22:31-34;
And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat.
But I have prayed for you, that your faith will not fail: and when you are converted, strengthen your brethren.
And Peter said to Jesus, Lord I am ready to go with you, both to prison, and to death.
And Jesus said, I tell you Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before you shall three times DENY that you know me.

Matt. 10:33;
But whosoever shall DENY me before men, him will I also DENY before my Father who is in heaven.
"When you ARE converted" points to Peter's lack of conversion at that time.
As Peter had yet to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, his conversion was still pending.
He needed to repent of the sins before his conversion was finalized.
You are in error not knowing the word of God or His power
1 John 5:1;
Whosoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and everyone that loves Him that begat loves him also that is begotten of Him.
Matthew. 16:15;
Jesus said to them, but who do you say that I am?
And Simon Peter answered and said, you are The Christ, the Son of the living God.
And Jesus answered and said to him, blessed are you Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood has not revealed it to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
And I say also to you, That you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Peter showed he did not believe Jesus was the Son of God when he denied Him.
Had Peter really been a believer, he would not have feared what any man could do to him.
That is a manifestation of walking in the flesh: when it comes down to God or you, you will always win.

Thanks be to God we can now walk in the Spirit instead of after the flesh.
But Peter didn't have access to that power until after a true repentance and reception of the gift of the Holy Ghost.



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bibleman
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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

Post by bibleman »

Hill Top wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:45 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 3:32 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 2:59 pm
dolph wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:05 am
Thanks Hilltop and Macca. Hilltop disagreed with: "Dake adds, Sin is the spirit and nature of the devil working in the sons of disobedience; sin is a real person, apart from man and God."

I was a bit shocked by this at first but I believe it's true. Satan or one of his demons, which are evil persons or enities, constantly are on the prowel seeing who they may destroy. But if we are truely born again we have put the flesh to death and we won't respond to their temptations. Neither do we have a fallen nature since we were born again and we are no longer under the curse of the law if we are walking in the Spirit. Perhaps there are three parts to being born again: receiving a new heart/spirit, dying to the flesh and coming away from the world and be ye separate? It's often said, we have three enemies to fight as Christians: the devil, the flesh and the world. I imagine the theologins might use terms like salvation, sanctification, justification. What say you? Can you tie this all together? In Him, Dolph

PS- So, when I sin, yell at a receiver in anger for dropping a pass, I should confess my sin, repent of my behavior and recommit my allegiance to Christ as my Lord and Savior?

PPS- Dake points out that when we sin, we actually have made Satan our Lord. Agree?
If one sins, are you implying a new devil has been created?
If sin is a being that didn't exist until you created it, do you have the power to create devils by committing sin?
I can't disagree enough with Rev Dake on this one.
Where in the world did you get: "sin is a being that didn't exist until you created it,"
I have never heard of that in my life.
In the eighth post of page one, Dolph wrote..."3.We all know sin is transgression of the law but Dake adds, Sin is the spirit and nature of the devil working in the sons of disobedience;
sin is a real person, apart from man and God."
If sin is a person, he did not exist until a sin was committed.
I don't agree that sin is a person.
He is speaking of sin as the spirit and nature of the devil himself, not a new creation.


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

Hill Top
Repent and Be Baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ Because of the Remission of Sins
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

Post by Hill Top »

bibleman wrote:
Sun Aug 28, 2022 2:49 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:45 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 3:32 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 2:59 pm
dolph wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:05 am
Thanks Hilltop and Macca. Hilltop disagreed with: "Dake adds, Sin is the spirit and nature of the devil working in the sons of disobedience; sin is a real person, apart from man and God."

I was a bit shocked by this at first but I believe it's true. Satan or one of his demons, which are evil persons or enities, constantly are on the prowel seeing who they may destroy. But if we are truely born again we have put the flesh to death and we won't respond to their temptations. Neither do we have a fallen nature since we were born again and we are no longer under the curse of the law if we are walking in the Spirit. Perhaps there are three parts to being born again: receiving a new heart/spirit, dying to the flesh and coming away from the world and be ye separate? It's often said, we have three enemies to fight as Christians: the devil, the flesh and the world. I imagine the theologins might use terms like salvation, sanctification, justification. What say you? Can you tie this all together? In Him, Dolph

PS- So, when I sin, yell at a receiver in anger for dropping a pass, I should confess my sin, repent of my behavior and recommit my allegiance to Christ as my Lord and Savior?

PPS- Dake points out that when we sin, we actually have made Satan our Lord. Agree?
If one sins, are you implying a new devil has been created?
If sin is a being that didn't exist until you created it, do you have the power to create devils by committing sin?
I can't disagree enough with Rev Dake on this one.
Where in the world did you get: "sin is a being that didn't exist until you created it,"
I have never heard of that in my life.
In the eighth post of page one, Dolph wrote..."3.We all know sin is transgression of the law but Dake adds, Sin is the spirit and nature of the devil working in the sons of disobedience;
sin is a real person, apart from man and God."
If sin is a person, he did not exist until a sin was committed.
I don't agree that sin is a person.
He is speaking of sin as the spirit and nature of the devil himself, not a new creation.
He said "sin is a real person".
Sin is the act of/by sinners.
It isn't a person, spirit, or nature.
It is a manifestation of a person.



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bibleman
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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

Post by bibleman »

Hill Top wrote:
Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:39 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sun Aug 28, 2022 2:49 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:45 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 3:32 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 2:59 pm
dolph wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:05 am
Thanks Hilltop and Macca. Hilltop disagreed with: "Dake adds, Sin is the spirit and nature of the devil working in the sons of disobedience; sin is a real person, apart from man and God."

I was a bit shocked by this at first but I believe it's true. Satan or one of his demons, which are evil persons or enities, constantly are on the prowel seeing who they may destroy. But if we are truely born again we have put the flesh to death and we won't respond to their temptations. Neither do we have a fallen nature since we were born again and we are no longer under the curse of the law if we are walking in the Spirit. Perhaps there are three parts to being born again: receiving a new heart/spirit, dying to the flesh and coming away from the world and be ye separate? It's often said, we have three enemies to fight as Christians: the devil, the flesh and the world. I imagine the theologins might use terms like salvation, sanctification, justification. What say you? Can you tie this all together? In Him, Dolph

PS- So, when I sin, yell at a receiver in anger for dropping a pass, I should confess my sin, repent of my behavior and recommit my allegiance to Christ as my Lord and Savior?

PPS- Dake points out that when we sin, we actually have made Satan our Lord. Agree?
If one sins, are you implying a new devil has been created?
If sin is a being that didn't exist until you created it, do you have the power to create devils by committing sin?
I can't disagree enough with Rev Dake on this one.
Where in the world did you get: "sin is a being that didn't exist until you created it,"
I have never heard of that in my life.
In the eighth post of page one, Dolph wrote..."3.We all know sin is transgression of the law but Dake adds, Sin is the spirit and nature of the devil working in the sons of disobedience;
sin is a real person, apart from man and God."
If sin is a person, he did not exist until a sin was committed.
I don't agree that sin is a person.
He is speaking of sin as the spirit and nature of the devil himself, not a new creation.
He said "sin is a real person".
Sin is the act of/by sinners.
It isn't a person, spirit, or nature.
It is a manifestation of a person.
You need to get a God's Plan for Man book and read it for yourself.

In the same sense that "God is Love" - "Satan is Sin."

You trying to understand something you have never read, is really a understanding based on ignorance.
All these statements imply that sin is a slave master and a tyrant over man, making him die by forcing him to transgress the law (Rom. 7:7-25; 8:2). Sin is a real person apart from man or it could not reign, dominate, enslave, deceive, slay, be present with, control man, dwell in a man, or dictate to him in any sense. Sin is also a law.
Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 410.


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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dolph
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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

Post by dolph »

Sin is an act but when one sins, simultaneously ones spirit changes and you are one with Satan, your spirit changes.

God, Satan and man are all spirits and individual persons. Christians are one with God's Spirit. Jesus said He was one with the Father and that we should be One with the Father and one another.



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macca
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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

Post by macca »

His answers are Ex Nihilo.



Hill Top
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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

Post by Hill Top »

bibleman wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:15 am
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:39 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sun Aug 28, 2022 2:49 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:45 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 3:32 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 2:59 pm
dolph wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:05 am
Thanks Hilltop and Macca. Hilltop disagreed with: "Dake adds, Sin is the spirit and nature of the devil working in the sons of disobedience; sin is a real person, apart from man and God."

I was a bit shocked by this at first but I believe it's true. Satan or one of his demons, which are evil persons or enities, constantly are on the prowel seeing who they may destroy. But if we are truely born again we have put the flesh to death and we won't respond to their temptations. Neither do we have a fallen nature since we were born again and we are no longer under the curse of the law if we are walking in the Spirit. Perhaps there are three parts to being born again: receiving a new heart/spirit, dying to the flesh and coming away from the world and be ye separate? It's often said, we have three enemies to fight as Christians: the devil, the flesh and the world. I imagine the theologins might use terms like salvation, sanctification, justification. What say you? Can you tie this all together? In Him, Dolph

PS- So, when I sin, yell at a receiver in anger for dropping a pass, I should confess my sin, repent of my behavior and recommit my allegiance to Christ as my Lord and Savior?

PPS- Dake points out that when we sin, we actually have made Satan our Lord. Agree?
If one sins, are you implying a new devil has been created?
If sin is a being that didn't exist until you created it, do you have the power to create devils by committing sin?
I can't disagree enough with Rev Dake on this one.
Where in the world did you get: "sin is a being that didn't exist until you created it,"
I have never heard of that in my life.
In the eighth post of page one, Dolph wrote..."3.We all know sin is transgression of the law but Dake adds, Sin is the spirit and nature of the devil working in the sons of disobedience;
sin is a real person, apart from man and God."
If sin is a person, he did not exist until a sin was committed.
I don't agree that sin is a person.
He is speaking of sin as the spirit and nature of the devil himself, not a new creation.
He said "sin is a real person".
Sin is the act of/by sinners.
It isn't a person, spirit, or nature.
It is a manifestation of a person.
You need to get a God's Plan for Man book and read it for yourself.
In the same sense that "God is Love" - "Satan is Sin."
Perhaps we can agree that God is the personification of love and satan is the personification of wickedness/murder?
But to call the devil "sin", makes no sense.
Is the devil adultery?
Is the devil theft?
Is a lie the devil?
Sins are all verbs when committed...He lied, He stole, She bore false witness.
We can't say He he, He he, She he.
By applying personhood to verbs, though picturesque, what do we gain?
What we lose, however, is the personal responsibility we all have for our own actions.
You trying to understand something you have never read, is really an understanding based on ignorance.

All these statements imply that sin is a slave master and a tyrant over man, making him die by forcing him to transgress the law (Rom. 7:7-25; 8:2). Sin is a real person apart from man or it could not reign, dominate, enslave, deceive, slay, be present with, control man, dwell in a man, or dictate to him in any sense. Sin is also a law.
Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORD search CROSS e-book, 410.
"Imply", not state.
Addiction to heroin may seem like heroin is a human master, but is heroin human?
As I said, by applying personhood to, say, adultery, we lose the fact that it US committing a sin.
We can't blame Mr. Adultery for adultery, if it is US who commits the sin.

Good topic.



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dolph
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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

Post by dolph »

At first I thought Bibleman's quote of Dake summed it up quite well:

All these statements imply that sin is a slave master and a tyrant over man, making him die by forcing him to transgress the law (Rom. 7:7-25; 8:2). Sin is a real person apart from man or it could not reign, dominate, enslave, deceive, slay, be present with, control man, dwell in a man, or dictate to him in any sense. Sin is also a law.

Then I thought, Maybe all the words above were really a figure of speech, a personification of Satan or an evil spirit. When we say, sin dominated me, or, sin deceived me, or, sin enslaved me. Because common sense dictates that sin is the cooperation of man with an evil spirit, demon or Satan. There are deceiving spirits, lying spirits, spirits of murder, Jezebel spirits, etc. A verb, like running, can't win the race; a verb, like killing, can't shoot a deer. That is why Dake's statement that sin is a person sounds so absurd. The examples Dake uses above really mean: a dominating spirit came over me; a spirit of deception came over me; a controlling spirit came over me; a demon spirit of hate enslaved me to do something evil, etc.



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