Dake Bible Discussion BoardJesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

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dolph
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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

Post by dolph »

Hill Top wrote:
Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:14 pm
dolph wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:48 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 11:38 pm
dolph wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:02 pm
Mr. Dake says in GPFM, P.478, "In Hebrews 10:26-29 we have the fact that a person who has been sanctified by the blood of Christ can go back into sin and commit this sin (blaspheming the Spirit). Blaspheming the Spirit and attributing to the devil the works of the Spirit, or speaking a word against the Spirit, knowingly and willfully, is the unpardonable sin and this any person can do whether he is a sinner or not."

This is in contrast to Hilltop's belief that a true believer can not sin. This is a black and white contradiction that a saved person CAN sin. Point, game, set, match, imho. :-D
Did you look at that scripture?
Heb 190:26-29..."For IF we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"
IF one returns to sin, it manifests that they were not reborn of God's seed to begin with.
They had only paused from sin instead of turned from it.
To me, the IF shows the consequences are to the hypothetical.

Is proving one can continue in unrighteousness while calling themselves "Christian" just a game for you?
It isn't to me, as the adversary hunts for our very soul.
BTW, our salvation won't be assured till after the day of judgement.
Dolph's first reply: That is besides the point. At any point in time before the judgment all people on earth are either saved or lost. That's who we are discussing at this time, as per the original scripture above.

So Hilltop, your position boils down to the extreme Calvinist argument, "If a Christian sins it means he was never really a Christian." Or, in today's common vernacular, "OSAS."
Though I know little of Calvinistic doctrine, they got that one right.
Just as apple seed cannot bring forth pumpkins, neither can God's seed bring forth thieves or adulterers.

Dolph's next reply: I agree but that, again, is besides the point of the discussion.
But did you read the scripture? The premise in God's words is the person WAS SAVED, "after we receive the knowledge of the truth."
You say "saved", but salvation isn't assured till after the final judgement...so you are working from a false assumption.

Dolph's next reply: Agreed, but for the third time, we are not talking about the future but about people in general living today.
We must assume the person was mentally healthy and that he had THE TRUTH, not part of the truth.

What person?
The ones being warned not to sin like the hypothetical subject of Heb 19?

Dolph's next reply: Yes, you have correctly identified the scripture.
The scripture is as clear as 1 + 1 = 2. Millions could end up in Hell because they trust in this false doctrine. It's my understanding that most Baptists believe this and as a consequence make only a half hearted effort to keep God's laws, of which there are over one thousand in the N.T..
IF one sins after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there is no more sacrifice for their sin.

Dolph's reply: Yes, there is no more sacrifice BUT there is no law against being born again a second or more times trusting in Christ's sacrifice, which is exactly what Dake was saying in the first place and is what the vast majority of the Bible reading and believing Church believes. Isn't this what Peter did after denying the Lord three times? And he went on to write two epistles of the N.T.!
PS- The word "receive" means to take as truth into one's heart, make it part of one's belief system or accepted truth. The devil is a sophisticated liar and apparently has bewitched someone on this site.
Don't you think that if they REALLY believed in God, had repented of sin, received the gift of the holy Ghost, and had the pastors and prophets of the OT and NT at their disposal, that they would not commit a sin that had no further sacrifice?
Sinners are unbelievers.

Dolph's final reply: Just because there is no further sacrifice doesn't mean one can't rent of one's sin and be born again. Christ's sacrifice covered all future sins of mankind!! Peter is the perfect example!!



Hill Top
Repent and Be Baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ Because of the Remission of Sins
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

Post by Hill Top »

dolph wrote:
Tue Sep 06, 2022 5:44 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:14 pm
dolph wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:48 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 11:38 pm
dolph wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:02 pm
Mr. Dake says in GPFM, P.478, "In Hebrews 10:26-29 we have the fact that a person who has been sanctified by the blood of Christ can go back into sin and commit this sin (blaspheming the Spirit). Blaspheming the Spirit and attributing to the devil the works of the Spirit, or speaking a word against the Spirit, knowingly and willfully, is the unpardonable sin and this any person can do whether he is a sinner or not."

This is in contrast to Hilltop's belief that a true believer can not sin. This is a black and white contradiction that a saved person CAN sin. Point, game, set, match, imho. :-D
Did you look at that scripture?
Heb 190:26-29..."For IF we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"
IF one returns to sin, it manifests that they were not reborn of God's seed to begin with.
They had only paused from sin instead of turned from it.
To me, the IF shows the consequences are to the hypothetical.

Is proving one can continue in unrighteousness while calling themselves "Christian" just a game for you?
It isn't to me, as the adversary hunts for our very soul.
BTW, our salvation won't be assured till after the day of judgement.
Dolph's first reply: That is besides the point. At any point in time before the judgment all people on earth are either saved or lost. That's who we are discussing at this time, as per the original scripture above.

So Hilltop, your position boils down to the extreme Calvinist argument, "If a Christian sins it means he was never really a Christian." Or, in today's common vernacular, "OSAS."
Though I know little of Calvinistic doctrine, they got that one right.
Just as apple seed cannot bring forth pumpkins, neither can God's seed bring forth thieves or adulterers.

Dolph's next reply: I agree but that, again, is besides the point of the discussion.
But did you read the scripture? The premise in God's words is the person WAS SAVED, "after we receive the knowledge of the truth."
You say "saved", but salvation isn't assured till after the final judgement...so you are working from a false assumption.

Dolph's next reply: Agreed, but for the third time, we are not talking about the future but about people in general living today.
We must assume the person was mentally healthy and that he had THE TRUTH, not part of the truth.

What person?
The ones being warned not to sin like the hypothetical subject of Heb 19?

Dolph's next reply: Yes, you have correctly identified the scripture.
The scripture is as clear as 1 + 1 = 2. Millions could end up in Hell because they trust in this false doctrine. It's my understanding that most Baptists believe this and as a consequence make only a half hearted effort to keep God's laws, of which there are over one thousand in the N.T..
IF one sins after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there is no more sacrifice for their sin.

Dolph's reply: Yes, there is no more sacrifice BUT there is no law against being born again a second or more times trusting in Christ's sacrifice, which is exactly what Dake was saying in the first place and is what the vast majority of the Bible reading and believing Church believes. Isn't this what Peter did after denying the Lord three times? And he went on to write two epistles of the N.T.!
PS- The word "receive" means to take as truth into one's heart, make it part of one's belief system or accepted truth. The devil is a sophisticated liar and apparently has bewitched someone on this site.
Don't you think that if they REALLY believed in God, had repented of sin, received the gift of the holy Ghost, and had the pastors and prophets of the OT and NT at their disposal, that they would not commit a sin that had no further sacrifice?
Sinners are unbelievers.
Dolph's final reply: Just because there is no further sacrifice doesn't mean one can't re(pe)nt of one's sin and be born again.
When the repentance is true, the rebirth will also be true.
Christ's sacrifice covered all future sins of mankind!! Peter is the perfect example!!
Jesus' sacrifice covers the sins of those who quit sinning, and get baptized in His name for the remission of past sins. (Rom 3:25)
Peter sinned before Jesus was killed and resurrected.
Peter's sins were during the OT, and had the Law's remedies.



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