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Hill Top
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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

Post by Hill Top »

dolph wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 3:49 pm
At first I thought Bibleman's quote of Dake summed it up quite well:
All these statements imply that sin is a slave master and a tyrant over man, making him die by forcing him to transgress the law (Rom. 7:7-25; 8:2). Sin is a real person apart from man or it could not reign, dominate, enslave, deceive, slay, be present with, control man, dwell in a man, or dictate to him in any sense.
Agreed.
Sin is also a law.
Would you care to expound on that idea?
Then I thought, Maybe all the words above were really a figure of speech, a personification of Satan or an evil spirit. When we say, sin dominated me, or, sin deceived me, or, sin enslaved me. Because common sense dictates that sin is the cooperation of man with an evil spirit, demon or Satan.
Not "cooperation", but "result" of man allowing lust, enticement, and temptation to bear fruit.
There are deceiving spirits, lying spirits, spirits of murder, Jezebel spirits, etc. A verb, like running, can't win the race; a verb, like killing, can't shoot a deer. That is why Dake's statement that sin is a person sounds so absurd.
The examples Dake uses above really mean: a dominating spirit came over me; a spirit of deception came over me; a controlling spirit came over me; a demon spirit of hate enslaved me to do something evil, etc.
Are you not glad that it is written..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13) ?



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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

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Hilltop wrote:
Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins
Unread post by Hill Top » Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:59 pm

dolph wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 2:49 pm

At first I thought Bibleman's quote of Dake summed it up quite well:
All these statements imply that sin is a slave master and a tyrant over man, making him die by forcing him to transgress the law (Rom. 7:7-25; 8:2). Sin is a real person apart from man or it could not reign, dominate, enslave, deceive, slay, be present with, control man, dwell in a man, or dictate to him in any sense.
Agreed.

Sin is also a law.
Would you care to expound on that idea? Yes, please ignore.

Then I thought, Maybe all the words above were really a figure of speech, a personification of Satan or an evil spirit. When we say, sin dominated me, or, sin deceived me, or, sin enslaved me. Because common sense dictates that sin is the cooperation of man with an evil spirit, demon or Satan.

Hilltop: Not "cooperation", but "result" of man allowing lust, enticement, and temptation to bear fruit.

Dolph: I believe it is cooperation or yielding to an evil spirit. (splitting hairs here?)

Dolph: There are deceiving spirits, lying spirits, spirits of murder, Jezebel spirits, etc. A verb, like running, can't win the race; a verb, like killing, can't shoot a deer. That is why Dake's statement that sin is a person sounds so absurd.
The examples Dake uses above really mean: a dominating spirit came over me; a spirit of deception came over me; a controlling spirit came over me; a demon spirit of hate enslaved me to do something evil, etc.

Hilltop: Are you not glad that it is written..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13) ?

Dolph: Your scripture above could be written: There is no demon or evil spirit that can tempt me that is not common to man... Temptation is a verb, not a spirit or demon. Demons tempt/test people. Temptation is what demons do. (I'm in agreement with you.) God bless, Dolph



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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

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dolph wrote:
Tue Aug 30, 2022 1:35 am
Hilltop wrote:
Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins
Unread post by Hill Top » Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:59 pm

dolph wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 2:49 pm

At first I thought Bibleman's quote of Dake summed it up quite well:
All these statements imply that sin is a slave master and a tyrant over man, making him die by forcing him to transgress the law (Rom. 7:7-25; 8:2). Sin is a real person apart from man or it could not reign, dominate, enslave, deceive, slay, be present with, control man, dwell in a man, or dictate to him in any sense.
Agreed.

Sin is also a law.
Would you care to expound on that idea? Yes, please ignore.

Then I thought, Maybe all the words above were really a figure of speech, a personification of Satan or an evil spirit. When we say, sin dominated me, or, sin deceived me, or, sin enslaved me. Because common sense dictates that sin is the cooperation of man with an evil spirit, demon or Satan.

Hilltop: Not "cooperation", but "result" of man allowing lust, enticement, and temptation to bear fruit.

Dolph: I believe it is cooperation or yielding to an evil spirit. (splitting hairs here?)

Dolph: There are deceiving spirits, lying spirits, spirits of murder, Jezebel spirits, etc. A verb, like running, can't win the race; a verb, like killing, can't shoot a deer. That is why Dake's statement that sin is a person sounds so absurd.
The examples Dake uses above really mean: a dominating spirit came over me; a spirit of deception came over me; a controlling spirit came over me; a demon spirit of hate enslaved me to do something evil, etc.

Hilltop: Are you not glad that it is written..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13) ?

Dolph: Your scripture above could be written: There is no demon or evil spirit that can tempt me that is not common to man... Temptation is a verb, not a spirit or demon. Demons tempt/test people. Temptation is what demons do. (I'm in agreement with you.) God bless, Dolph
Your post was too hard to figure out.
If you end the paragraph you are responding to with [/quote], you can separate your answer from what was asked.
Then insert [*uote], before their next paragraph, and again end it with [/*uote].
The "star" before "uote" is a lower case q, because the computer wont allow me to print the word "quote" in parenthesis.



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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

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dolph wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 3:49 pm
At first I thought Bibleman's quote of Dake summed it up quite well:

All these statements imply that sin is a slave master and a tyrant over man, making him die by forcing him to transgress the law (Rom. 7:7-25; 8:2). Sin is a real person apart from man or it could not reign, dominate, enslave, deceive, slay, be present with, control man, dwell in a man, or dictate to him in any sense. Sin is also a law.

Then I thought, Maybe all the words above were really a figure of speech, a personification of Satan or an evil spirit. When we say, sin dominated me, or, sin deceived me, or, sin enslaved me. Because common sense dictates that sin is the cooperation of man with an evil spirit, demon or Satan. There are deceiving spirits, lying spirits, spirits of murder, Jezebel spirits, etc. A verb, like running, can't win the race; a verb, like killing, can't shoot a deer. That is why Dake's statement that sin is a person sounds so absurd. The examples Dake uses above really mean: a dominating spirit came over me; a spirit of deception came over me; a controlling spirit came over me; a demon spirit of hate enslaved me to do something evil, etc.
To Hilltop: I don't think you responded to my point above that the words above of Bibleman (reign, dominate, enslave, deceive, slay) were really personifications of demons who are doing the tempting. Verbs are what demons and people do and are not demons or people or nouns. Do you agree? Thanks, Bob



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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

Post by Hill Top »

dolph wrote:
Sat Sep 03, 2022 11:37 am
dolph wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 3:49 pm
At first I thought Bibleman's quote of Dake summed it up quite well:

All these statements imply that sin is a slave master and a tyrant over man, making him die by forcing him to transgress the law (Rom. 7:7-25; 8:2). Sin is a real person apart from man or it could not reign, dominate, enslave, deceive, slay, be present with, control man, dwell in a man, or dictate to him in any sense. Sin is also a law.

Then I thought, Maybe all the words above were really a figure of speech, a personification of Satan or an evil spirit. When we say, sin dominated me, or, sin deceived me, or, sin enslaved me. Because common sense dictates that sin is the cooperation of man with an evil spirit, demon or Satan. There are deceiving spirits, lying spirits, spirits of murder, Jezebel spirits, etc. A verb, like running, can't win the race; a verb, like killing, can't shoot a deer. That is why Dake's statement that sin is a person sounds so absurd. The examples Dake uses above really mean: a dominating spirit came over me; a spirit of deception came over me; a controlling spirit came over me; a demon spirit of hate enslaved me to do something evil, etc.
To Hilltop: I don't think you responded to my point above that the words above of Bibleman (reign, dominate, enslave, deceive, slay) were really personifications of demons who are doing the tempting. Verbs are what demons and people do and are not demons or people or nouns. Do you agree? Thanks, Bob
They are not personifications, but actions by tempters.
A better word than personification would be "descriptors".



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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

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Mr. Dake says in GPFM, P.478, "In Hebrews 10:26-29 we have the fact that a person who has been sanctified by the blood of Christ can go back into sin and commit this sin (blaspheming the Spirit). Blaspheming the Spirit and attributing to the devil the works of the Spirit, or speaking a word against the Spirit, knowingly and willfully, is the unpardonable sin and this any person can do whether he is a sinner or not."

This is in contrast to Hilltop's belief that a true believer can not sin. This is a black and white contradiction that a saved person CAN sin. Point, game, set, match, imho. :-D



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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

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dolph wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:02 pm
Mr. Dake says in GPFM, P.478, "In Hebrews 10:26-29 we have the fact that a person who has been sanctified by the blood of Christ can go back into sin and commit this sin (blaspheming the Spirit). Blaspheming the Spirit and attributing to the devil the works of the Spirit, or speaking a word against the Spirit, knowingly and willfully, is the unpardonable sin and this any person can do whether he is a sinner or not."

This is in contrast to Hilltop's belief that a true believer can not sin. This is a black and white contradiction that a saved person CAN sin. Point, game, set, match, imho. :-D
Did you look at that scripture?
Heb 190:26-29..."For IF we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"
IF one returns to sin, it manifests that they were not reborn of God's seed to begin with.
They had only paused from sin instead of turned from it.
To me, the IF shows the consequences are to the hypothetical.

Is proving one can continue in unrighteousness while calling themselves "Christian" just a game for you?
It isn't to me, as the adversary hunts for our very soul.
BTW, our salvation won't be assured till after the day of judgement.



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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

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Hill Top wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 11:38 pm
dolph wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:02 pm
Mr. Dake says in GPFM, P.478, "In Hebrews 10:26-29 we have the fact that a person who has been sanctified by the blood of Christ can go back into sin and commit this sin (blaspheming the Spirit). Blaspheming the Spirit and attributing to the devil the works of the Spirit, or speaking a word against the Spirit, knowingly and willfully, is the unpardonable sin and this any person can do whether he is a sinner or not."

This is in contrast to Hilltop's belief that a true believer can not sin. This is a black and white contradiction that a saved person CAN sin. Point, game, set, match, imho. :-D
Did you look at that scripture?
Heb 190:26-29..."For IF we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"
IF one returns to sin, it manifests that they were not reborn of God's seed to begin with.
They had only paused from sin instead of turned from it.
To me, the IF shows the consequences are to the hypothetical.

Is proving one can continue in unrighteousness while calling themselves "Christian" just a game for you?
It isn't to me, as the adversary hunts for our very soul.
BTW, our salvation won't be assured till after the day of judgement.
So Hilltop, your position boils down to the extreme Calvinist argument, "If a Christian sins it means he was never really a Christian." Or, in today's common vernacular, "OSAS."

But did you read the scripture? The premise in God's words is the person WAS SAVED, "after we receive the knowledge of the truth." We must assume the person was mentally healthy and that he had THE TRUTH, not part of the truth. The scripture is as clear as 1 + 1 = 2. Millions could end up in Hell because they trust in this false doctrine. It's my understanding that most Baptists believe this and as a consequence make only a half hearted effort to keep God's laws, of which there are over one thousand in the N.T..

PS- The word "receive" means to take as truth into one's heart, make it part of one's belief system or accepted truth. The devil is a sophisticated liar and apparently has bewitched someone on this site.



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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

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It's awful quiet in this Presbyterian church!

Christians are described as the "called out ones". Jesus called out the 12 apostles, the seventy, then 3,000 were called and 5,000. Peter and Judas were among the called by Jesus and spent every day under His teaching for three years YET THEY FELL, LOST THEIR SALVATION! These are just two of many such examples found in the Bible proving "once saved, always saved" popular doctrine of this Laodicean Church false!

Has anyone seen Hilltop??



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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

Post by Hill Top »

dolph wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:48 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 11:38 pm
dolph wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:02 pm
Mr. Dake says in GPFM, P.478, "In Hebrews 10:26-29 we have the fact that a person who has been sanctified by the blood of Christ can go back into sin and commit this sin (blaspheming the Spirit). Blaspheming the Spirit and attributing to the devil the works of the Spirit, or speaking a word against the Spirit, knowingly and willfully, is the unpardonable sin and this any person can do whether he is a sinner or not."

This is in contrast to Hilltop's belief that a true believer can not sin. This is a black and white contradiction that a saved person CAN sin. Point, game, set, match, imho. :-D
Did you look at that scripture?
Heb 190:26-29..."For IF we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"
IF one returns to sin, it manifests that they were not reborn of God's seed to begin with.
They had only paused from sin instead of turned from it.
To me, the IF shows the consequences are to the hypothetical.

Is proving one can continue in unrighteousness while calling themselves "Christian" just a game for you?
It isn't to me, as the adversary hunts for our very soul.
BTW, our salvation won't be assured till after the day of judgement.
So Hilltop, your position boils down to the extreme Calvinist argument, "If a Christian sins it means he was never really a Christian." Or, in today's common vernacular, "OSAS."
Though I know little of Calvinistic doctrine, they got that one right.
Just as apple seed cannot bring forth pumpkins, neither can God's seed bring forth thieves or adulterers.
But did you read the scripture? The premise in God's words is the person WAS SAVED, "after we receive the knowledge of the truth."
You say "saved", but salvation isn't assured till after the final judgement...so you are working from a false assumption.
We must assume the person was mentally healthy and that he had THE TRUTH, not part of the truth.

What person?
The ones being warned not to sin like the hypothetical subject of Heb 19?
The scripture is as clear as 1 + 1 = 2. Millions could end up in Hell because they trust in this false doctrine. It's my understanding that most Baptists believe this and as a consequence make only a half hearted effort to keep God's laws, of which there are over one thousand in the N.T..
IF one sins after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there is no more sacrifice for their sin.
PS- The word "receive" means to take as truth into one's heart, make it part of one's belief system or accepted truth. The devil is a sophisticated liar and apparently has bewitched someone on this site.
Don't you think that if they REALLY believed in God, had repented of sin, received the gift of the holy Ghost, and had the pastors and prophets of the OT and NT at their disposal, that they would not commit a sin that had no further sacrifice?
Sinners are unbelievers.



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