Dake Bible Discussion BoardJesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

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luchnia
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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

Post by luchnia »

dolph wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:10 pm
Sin is far more serious than most realize. Every time one sins he submits to Satin as his master and should be reconverted or born again again. Read GPFM, C.23. I take my hat off to Hilltop who has learned to be led by the Spirit of God and therefore is a child of God, Rom.8:14.

To enter into God's family and be a joint heir with Christ is not to be taken lightly and this Laodicean Church for the most part is wrongly offering salvation at a ridiculously low price.

It is my understanding that most Baptists believe "once saved, always saved" which is totally off the charts imho. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I believe Pastor John Hagee and son teach this.

Dake teaches one loses his/her salvation as soon as they submit to Satan's temptation and most be born again. But what about 1John 1:9, confessing your sin and repenting of it to our High Priest Jesus?? Is this equivalent to being born again??
Not only did Jesus teach it, but it is taught in many places in God's word and it was one of Paul's main themes in his writings. Some that were born again allowed temptation and also fell away into apostasy to the point that no matter the amount of repentance they could not return.

As far as OSAS, there are a lot of people that adhere to the false OSAS doctrine these days. If you go back to Genesis you find some of the first false OSAS teachings with words from the evil one like, "Did God say?" or "Thou shalt not surely die..." These are some of the first OSAS seductions of deceit that we have recorded for our instruction.


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Hill Top
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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

Post by Hill Top »

dolph wrote:
Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:47 pm
Thanks Hilltop for your wise answer. What about 1John 1:9? Dake's note P, in his study Bible he says, "If we do one thing- confess our sins, God will do four things: (1) Be faithful to us; (2) Be just to us; (3) Forgive us our sins; (4) Cleanse us of all unrighteousness." I have lived by that my 43 year Christian life.
1 John 1:9, confessing sins, is the step before being washed by the blood of Christ from sin. (1 John 1:7)
(If John had been using a different format in his letter, I feel he would have put verse 9 in front of verse 7.)
That happens at our baptism, now in the NT, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. (Matt 3:16, Mk 1:5, Acts 2:38, 22:16)
Confessing and baptism are done before one can walk in the light. (1 John 1:7)
I don't know if you have a copy of Dake's God's Plan For Man, but I didn't see him make one reference to this verse which is a little disconcerting. He repeatedly does say that when you sin you must be born again because you have yielded to Satan and denied God. Maybe I'm making too fine a point of it. It may only take an extra sentence or two after repenting and confessing a sin to say, Jesus I make you my Lord and Savior. What say you.
I don't have a copy of the book, but not using 1 John 1:9 while in the context of "while born again", just confirms Rev Dake's POV that the reborn don't ever commit sin.
The reborn have no need of further confessions.
Let me add Dake's chapter on sin, Lesson 23, is very, very interesting and something I have never heard in church. Here are a few excerpts I have made part of my life:
1. Sin and Satan, like God and righteousness are ever present and the saved man will be tempted. But sin will never be experienced again in a believer IF he will always yield to God instead of the Devil and live and walk in the Spirit, p.433.
2. There are two ways to live: Obedience to the Law of Sin and Death, led by Satan, or, Obedience to the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus, led by Christ Jesus.
3.We all know sin is transgression of the law but Dake adds, Sin is the spirit and nature of the devil working in the sons of disobedience; sin is a real person, apart from man and God.
I agree whole-heartedly with his POV on points 1 and 2, but I fail to see sin as an entity with its own free will.
Sin is the result of something else...temptation, lust, enticement, and conception...(James 1:14-15)
One of my favorite scriptures is Romans 8:14: "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God".
It is a good point of reference in one's life for whether or not they are sons of God.
What does that say about those who walk in the flesh/sinners ?
They are not the sons of God.
When one understands that salvation includes receiving God's divine nature and being a "joint heir with Christ", one can then understand why God has such a high standard for receiving sonship.
I would very much to hear your comments on all this when you find time, In Christ, Dolph
It sure makes it easy to tell who really is a Christian.
Thanks be to God.
Last edited by Hill Top on Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Hill Top
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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

Post by Hill Top »

macca wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:22 am
Hill Top
Luke.22:31-34;
And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat.
But I have prayed for you, that your faith will not fail: and when you are converted, strengthen your brethren.
And Peter said to Jesus, Lord I am ready to go with you, both to prison, and to death.
And Jesus said, I tell you Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before you shall three times DENY that you know me.

Matt. 10:33;
But whosoever shall DENY me before men, him will I also DENY before my Father who is in heaven.
"When you ARE converted" points to Peter's lack of conversion at that time.
As Peter had yet to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, his conversion was still pending.
He needed to repent of the sins before his conversion was finalized.



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dolph
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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

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Thanks Hilltop and Macca. Hilltop disagreed with: "Dake adds, Sin is the spirit and nature of the devil working in the sons of disobedience; sin is a real person, apart from man and God."

I was a bit shocked by this at first but I believe it's true. Satan or one of his demons, which are evil persons or enities, constantly are on the prowel seeing who they may destroy. But if we are truely born again we have put the flesh to death and we won't respond to their temptations. Neither do we have a fallen nature since we were born again and we are no longer under the curse of the law if we are walking in the Spirit. Perhaps there are three parts to being born again: receiving a new heart/spirit, dying to the flesh and coming away from the world and be ye separate? It's often said, we have three enemies to fight as Christians: the devil, the flesh and the world. I imagine the theologins might use terms like salvation, sanctification, justification. What say you? Can you tie this all together? In Him, Dolph

PS- So, when I sin, yell at a receiver in anger for dropping a pass, I should confess my sin, repent of my behavior and recommit my allegiance to Christ as my Lord and Savior?

PPS- Dake points out that when we sin, we actually have made Satan our Lord. Agree?



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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

Post by macca »

Well Dolph, PPS:
That is exactly what Adam did, changed Gods.



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luchnia
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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

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dolph wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:05 am
PS- So, when I sin, yell at a receiver in anger for dropping a pass, I should confess my sin, repent of my behavior and recommit my allegiance to Christ as my Lord and Savior?
How is yelling at a receiver for dropping a pass a sin? There are probably better things to do than yell because someone dropped a pass, but it really has nothing to do with sin unless it is turned into evil.


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macca
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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

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macca wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 1:26 am
Well Dolph, PPS:
That is exactly what Adam did, changed Gods.
And look what else Adam did after he sinned,
He turned around and blamed God for his own actions.
It was the woman you gave me that made me do it.



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dolph
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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

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Luchnia, Yelling in anger at ANYONE (except Satan and his minions) is sin. We should love our neighbors as ourselves.



Hill Top
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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

Post by Hill Top »

dolph wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:05 am
Thanks Hilltop and Macca. Hilltop disagreed with: "Dake adds, Sin is the spirit and nature of the devil working in the sons of disobedience; sin is a real person, apart from man and God."

I was a bit shocked by this at first but I believe it's true. Satan or one of his demons, which are evil persons or enities, constantly are on the prowel seeing who they may destroy. But if we are truely born again we have put the flesh to death and we won't respond to their temptations. Neither do we have a fallen nature since we were born again and we are no longer under the curse of the law if we are walking in the Spirit. Perhaps there are three parts to being born again: receiving a new heart/spirit, dying to the flesh and coming away from the world and be ye separate? It's often said, we have three enemies to fight as Christians: the devil, the flesh and the world. I imagine the theologins might use terms like salvation, sanctification, justification. What say you? Can you tie this all together? In Him, Dolph

PS- So, when I sin, yell at a receiver in anger for dropping a pass, I should confess my sin, repent of my behavior and recommit my allegiance to Christ as my Lord and Savior?

PPS- Dake points out that when we sin, we actually have made Satan our Lord. Agree?
If one sins, are you implying a new devil has been created?
If sin is a being that didn't exist until you created it, do you have the power to create devils by committing sin?
I can't disagree enough with Rev Dake on this one.



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Re: Jesus Taught Reconversion If One Sins

Post by bibleman »

Hill Top wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 2:59 pm
dolph wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:05 am
Thanks Hilltop and Macca. Hilltop disagreed with: "Dake adds, Sin is the spirit and nature of the devil working in the sons of disobedience; sin is a real person, apart from man and God."

I was a bit shocked by this at first but I believe it's true. Satan or one of his demons, which are evil persons or enities, constantly are on the prowel seeing who they may destroy. But if we are truely born again we have put the flesh to death and we won't respond to their temptations. Neither do we have a fallen nature since we were born again and we are no longer under the curse of the law if we are walking in the Spirit. Perhaps there are three parts to being born again: receiving a new heart/spirit, dying to the flesh and coming away from the world and be ye separate? It's often said, we have three enemies to fight as Christians: the devil, the flesh and the world. I imagine the theologins might use terms like salvation, sanctification, justification. What say you? Can you tie this all together? In Him, Dolph

PS- So, when I sin, yell at a receiver in anger for dropping a pass, I should confess my sin, repent of my behavior and recommit my allegiance to Christ as my Lord and Savior?

PPS- Dake points out that when we sin, we actually have made Satan our Lord. Agree?
If one sins, are you implying a new devil has been created?
If sin is a being that didn't exist until you created it, do you have the power to create devils by committing sin?
I can't disagree enough with Rev Dake on this one.
Where in the world did you get: "sin is a being that didn't exist until you created it,"

I have never heard of that in my life.


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