Dake Bible Discussion BoardThe eternal sonship heresy!

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luchnia
Shall Not He that Spared Not His Own Son Freely Give Us All Things?
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Re: The eternal sonship heresy!

Post by luchnia »

Polemique wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 4:17 pm
Displacing Christ as eternal seems to be analogous to all false belief, including atheist materialist's that claim matter is eternal.
Actually God's word separates the Son from the Father as well as The Spirit many, many times. The Son, The Father, and The Spirit are one, but not they are not the same one. Jesus, nor the Spirit did the same things The Father did:

Matthew 16:15-17 (KJV)
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

John 1:14 (KJV)
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Mark 9:7 (KJV)
7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

Acts 13:33 (KJV)
33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Matthew 20:23 (KJV)
23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

Matthew 24:35-36 (KJV)
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

John 14:16-17 (KJV)
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:26 (KJV)
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 (KJV)
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:


Word up!

patrissimo
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Re: The eternal sonship heresy!

Post by patrissimo »

Ironman wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:21 pm
patrissimo wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:04 pm
Ironman wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:02 pm
Ironman wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:01 pm
patrissimo wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 7:05 pm
"Then Jesus answered, and said to them: Amen, amen, I say unto you, the Son cannot do any thing of himself, but what he seeth the Father doing: for what things soever he doth, these the Son also doth in like manner. For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things which himself doth: and greater works than these will he shew him, that you may wonder. For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and giveth life: so the Son also giveth life to whom he will." - Jn. 5:19-22

This says the Son does "what things soever" that the Father is doing. The Father did a lot of things prior to Christ's Nativity such as create the world, give the law, etc. This does not say the Word doeth what things soever; it says the SON doeth what things soever. One of the things the Son does like the Father here is raise the dead. Three people wee raised from the dead in the OT which means the SON did it.
You say the Father created the world.

Not according to Scripture! The Word, who was with God, before He became flesh; (Jesus), created everything.

John 1: 1, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2, The same was in the beginning with God.
3, All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

And verse 10, He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
All Three Persons of the Trinity are God. God created everything that is created. Just because a verse says the Word created everything doesn't mean the other Persons did not.
1John 5:7, For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1John 5:8,And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. You go to any court in the world and try and be three witnesses.

There are separate and distinct persons in the Godhead. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are "ONE" in unity, not one body..
The Holy Bible clearly states that the Word created everything, the Word made everything, the Word created the World. I believe the Holy Bible, not your personal FLAWED interpretation of the Bible.
The fact that you see a need to resort to this argument proves my case. The Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God. Gen. 1:1 says "God" created the heavens and the earth. Therefore, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit created the heavens and the earth.


Lord have mercy

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Ironman
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Re: The eternal sonship heresy!

Post by Ironman »

patrissimo wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:15 pm
Ironman wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:21 pm
patrissimo wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:04 pm
Ironman wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:02 pm
Ironman wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:01 pm
patrissimo wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 7:05 pm
"Then Jesus answered, and said to them: Amen, amen, I say unto you, the Son cannot do any thing of himself, but what he seeth the Father doing: for what things soever he doth, these the Son also doth in like manner. For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things which himself doth: and greater works than these will he shew him, that you may wonder. For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and giveth life: so the Son also giveth life to whom he will." - Jn. 5:19-22

This says the Son does "what things soever" that the Father is doing. The Father did a lot of things prior to Christ's Nativity such as create the world, give the law, etc. This does not say the Word doeth what things soever; it says the SON doeth what things soever. One of the things the Son does like the Father here is raise the dead. Three people wee raised from the dead in the OT which means the SON did it.
You say the Father created the world.

Not according to Scripture! The Word, who was with God, before He became flesh; (Jesus), created everything.

John 1: 1, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2, The same was in the beginning with God.
3, All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

And verse 10, He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
All Three Persons of the Trinity are God. God created everything that is created. Just because a verse says the Word created everything doesn't mean the other Persons did not.
1John 5:7, For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1John 5:8,And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. You go to any court in the world and try and be three witnesses.

There are separate and distinct persons in the Godhead. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are "ONE" in unity, not one body..
The Holy Bible clearly states that the Word created everything, the Word made everything, the Word created the World. I believe the Holy Bible, not your personal FLAWED interpretation of the Bible.
The fact that you see a need to resort to this argument proves my case. The Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God. Gen. 1:1 says "God" created the heavens and the earth. Therefore, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit created the heavens and the earth.
Who's arguing. I'm just quoting factual Scriptures.

John 1: 1, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2, The same was in the beginning with God.

3, All things were made by HIM; and without HIM was not any thing made that was made. Notice the Scripture clearly states all things were made by HIM, not THEM, or by HIM, THE FATHER, AND THE HOLY GHOST.

And verse 10, He was in the world, and the world was made by HIM, and the world knew HIM not. The world He lived in knew the Father. Jesus claimed to be the Son of God and they killed HIM for it.
God will hold men responsible for what He says, not for what alleged bible experts interpret His words to say.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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Ironman
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Re: The eternal sonship heresy!

Post by Ironman »

Ironman wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:00 pm
patrissimo wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:15 pm
Ironman wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:21 pm
patrissimo wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:04 pm
Ironman wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:02 pm
Ironman wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:01 pm
patrissimo wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 7:05 pm
"Then Jesus answered, and said to them: Amen, amen, I say unto you, the Son cannot do any thing of himself, but what he seeth the Father doing: for what things soever he doth, these the Son also doth in like manner. For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things which himself doth: and greater works than these will he shew him, that you may wonder. For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and giveth life: so the Son also giveth life to whom he will." - Jn. 5:19-22

This says the Son does "what things soever" that the Father is doing. The Father did a lot of things prior to Christ's Nativity such as create the world, give the law, etc. This does not say the Word doeth what things soever; it says the SON doeth what things soever. One of the things the Son does like the Father here is raise the dead. Three people wee raised from the dead in the OT which means the SON did it.
You say the Father created the world.

Not according to Scripture! The Word, who was with God, before He became flesh; (Jesus), created everything.

John 1: 1, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2, The same was in the beginning with God.
3, All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

And verse 10, He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
All Three Persons of the Trinity are God. God created everything that is created. Just because a verse says the Word created everything doesn't mean the other Persons did not.
1John 5:7, For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1John 5:8,And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. You go to any court in the world and try and be three witnesses.

There are separate and distinct persons in the Godhead. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are "ONE" in unity, not one body..
The Holy Bible clearly states that the Word created everything, the Word made everything, the Word created the World. I believe the Holy Bible, not your personal FLAWED interpretation of the Bible.
The fact that you see a need to resort to this argument proves my case. The Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God. Gen. 1:1 says "God" created the heavens and the earth. Therefore, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit created the heavens and the earth.
Who's arguing. I'm just quoting factual Scriptures. You have no case and what you say is flawed.

John 1: 1, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2, The same was in the beginning with God.

3, All things were made by HIM; and without HIM was not any thing made that was made. Notice the Scripture clearly states all things were made by HIM, not THEM, or by HIM, THE FATHER, AND THE HOLY GHOST.

And verse 10, He was in the world, and the world was made by HIM, and the world knew HIM not. The world He lived in knew the Father. Jesus claimed to be the Son of God and they killed HIM for it.
God will hold men responsible for what He says, not for what alleged bible experts interpret His words to say.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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Ironman
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Re: The eternal sonship heresy!

Post by Ironman »

Ironman wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:01 pm
Ironman wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:00 pm
patrissimo wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:15 pm
Ironman wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:21 pm
patrissimo wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:04 pm
Ironman wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:02 pm
Ironman wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:01 pm


You say the Father created the world.

Not according to Scripture! The Word, who was with God, before He became flesh; (Jesus), created everything.

John 1: 1, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2, The same was in the beginning with God.
3, All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

And verse 10, He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
All Three Persons of the Trinity are God. God created everything that is created. Just because a verse says the Word created everything doesn't mean the other Persons did not.
1John 5:7, For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1John 5:8,And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. You go to any court in the world and try and be three witnesses.

There are separate and distinct persons in the Godhead. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are "ONE" in unity, not one body..
The Holy Bible clearly states that the Word created everything, the Word made everything, the Word created the World. I believe the Holy Bible, not your personal FLAWED interpretation of the Bible.
The fact that you see a need to resort to this argument proves my case. The Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God. Gen. 1:1 says "God" created the heavens and the earth. Therefore, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit created the heavens and the earth.
Who's arguing. I'm just quoting factual Scriptures. You have no case and what you say is flawed. If the world and everything was made by THEM, the Scriptures would clearly state this. A God who could not make Himself or His Holy Word clear, or had to be interpreted by collage educated bible experts is no God at all. Let us believe, like sensible men, that God can make Himself and His Word be clearly understood.

John 1: 1, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2, The same was in the beginning with God.

3, All things were made by HIM; and without HIM was not any thing made that was made. Notice the Scripture clearly states all things were made by HIM, not THEM, or by HIM, THE FATHER, AND THE HOLY GHOST.

And verse 10, He was in the world, and the world was made by HIM, and the world knew HIM not. The world He lived in knew the Father. Jesus claimed to be the Son of God and they killed HIM for it.
God will hold men responsible for what He says, not for what alleged bible experts interpret His words to say.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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luchnia
Shall Not He that Spared Not His Own Son Freely Give Us All Things?
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Re: The eternal sonship heresy!

Post by luchnia »

Hill Top wrote:
Fri Apr 22, 2022 11:22 pm
Our beliefs don't allow any false beliefs.
No doubt a false statement. Granted we don't know much about you, but you have been called out on a number of false beliefs on this forum alone.


Word up!

Hill Top
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Posts: 759
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Re: The eternal sonship heresy!

Post by Hill Top »

luchnia wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 6:36 am
Hill Top wrote:
Fri Apr 22, 2022 11:22 pm
Our beliefs don't allow any false beliefs.
No doubt a false statement. Granted we don't know much about you, but you have been called out on a number of false beliefs on this forum alone.
Unanswered accusations?
If you can remember one, start a new thread wherein we can discuss what you don't yet believe.
To the glory if God.



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luchnia
Shall Not He that Spared Not His Own Son Freely Give Us All Things?
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Re: The eternal sonship heresy!

Post by luchnia »

Hill Top wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 2:21 pm
luchnia wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 6:36 am
Hill Top wrote:
Fri Apr 22, 2022 11:22 pm
Our beliefs don't allow any false beliefs.
No doubt a false statement. Granted we don't know much about you, but you have been called out on a number of false beliefs on this forum alone.
Unanswered accusations?
If you can remember one, start a new thread wherein we can discuss what you don't yet believe.
To the glory if God.
Not going down those roads again with you. As the old saying goes, "Been there, done that."


Word up!

Hill Top
Repent and Be Baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ Because of the Remission of Sins
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: The eternal sonship heresy!

Post by Hill Top »

luchnia wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 3:20 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 2:21 pm
luchnia wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 6:36 am
Hill Top wrote:
Fri Apr 22, 2022 11:22 pm
Our beliefs don't allow any false beliefs.
No doubt a false statement. Granted we don't know much about you, but you have been called out on a number of false beliefs on this forum alone.
Unanswered accusations?
If you can remember one, start a new thread wherein we can discuss what you don't yet believe.
To the glory if God.
Not going down those roads again with you. As the old saying goes, "Been there, done that."
Perhaps God has given a new revelation on something.
I learn new biblical things all the time, thanks be to God.



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luchnia
Shall Not He that Spared Not His Own Son Freely Give Us All Things?
Posts: 669
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:01 am

Re: The eternal sonship heresy!

Post by luchnia »

Hill Top wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:55 pm
luchnia wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 3:20 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 2:21 pm
luchnia wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 6:36 am
Hill Top wrote:
Fri Apr 22, 2022 11:22 pm
Our beliefs don't allow any false beliefs.
No doubt a false statement. Granted we don't know much about you, but you have been called out on a number of false beliefs on this forum alone.
Unanswered accusations?
If you can remember one, start a new thread wherein we can discuss what you don't yet believe.
To the glory if God.
Not going down those roads again with you. As the old saying goes, "Been there, done that."
Perhaps God has given a new revelation on something.
I learn new biblical things all the time, thanks be to God.
Good point and perhaps true, yet hard to determine that to be evidentiary in this chat forum pertaining to the subjects we have dealt with. The thing is we can get a concept, but none of us can really know each other from typed thoughts in text on an electronic chat forum.


Word up!

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