Dake Bible Discussion BoardIf God does NOT have a body then how did he sit, wear clothes and have hair on His head?

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Hill Top
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Re: If God does NOT have a body then how did he sit, wear clothes and have hair on His head?

Post by Hill Top »

Polemique wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 2:27 pm
Hello Gents: New here, thank you for allowing me to join. I heard about God has a body. I would ask if everyone believes in the Holy Bible. Assuming the answer is 'Yes", do you believe in the Holy Trinity and assuming the answer is "Yes", you believe Elohim, Adonai, Y'Shua, and this same Holy Trinity are this same God in the OT and NT? Assuming this is "Yes", Was the Son of God incarnate subjected to created birth, life, death, resurrection, ascension, and sits at the right hand of the Father? Assuming "Yes" as most Christians would adhere to this Tradition handed down to faithful men, does this same Holy Trinity godhead then have two bodies with Christ having a set of hands (to sit next to the father) and also the Father having a set of hands or have our righteous forefathers portrayed to us that God the Father is infinite and not defined by His creation? It seems some would confine the Holy Trinity to the confines of finite human capacity, that man is able to comprehend the infinite consuming fire without dying. Apostle Paul said that and we know that Apostle John the Revelator portrayed this as well. That we cannot fully translate infinite things to mortal understanding.

Does the Holy Spirit then also have a body like the Father and the Son, since they are One Godhead? We dimly see and understand, as though in a mirror. Then, we shall see fully as He does. Bodies are material and fallen, complex. Complexity is of that which is created. Complexity is also of the fallen nature pertaining to decay, oxidation, lustful reproduction and bloody childbirth, fluid, pathologies, hate, emotion. All of these are of the fallen nature not indicative of Edenic Paradise. This image of the Holy Trinity of man in paradise could not be the same as the fallen nature. We have fragmented fallen knowledge and understanding.

Many different questions leading to one: ultimately, why must the Father have an incarnate body when He is only temporally incarnate? ie, birth, life, death, resurrection, ascension. He is temporarily incarnate because time is a constraint of fallen nature. He is eternally the Father, eternally the Son, and eternally the Holy Spirit---ONE GOD.....Now, I do not understand this. I can describe it, but not explain it. This is what the Hebrews and early Christians knew as a mystery. The mystery of the Holy Trinity Knowable, yes, Audible, yes. Visible, No. There are visible and invisible natures observed in creation. We cannot observe with our eyes forces holding earth in place and rotating the heavens around earth. We know it happens but no one can explain the CAUSE. we can describe them in a limited manner. Why then would the Father have a materialistic, constrained type of body?
Welcome aboard.
If God, the Father, has a body, why do you think it would be only temporary?
Personally, I think God is a spirit, and must be worshipped in spirit and truth.
And, that references to "God's" body parts are in the sense of the entirety of the Godhead and not just of the Father.
That 'entirety' would be God the Father and the Word.



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bibleman
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Re: If God does NOT have a body then how did he sit, wear clothes and have hair on His head?

Post by bibleman »

patrissimo wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 1:27 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 1:20 pm
patrissimo wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 10:57 am
bibleman wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 9:58 pm
Ironman wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 9:03 pm
"What does "I will go down now" mean?

Patrissimo replied; Yes, you do interpret.

I suspect it means God is giving that situation special attention."
Ahhhhhhhhhhha ...........................
I think either Patrissimo has a reading comprehension problem or else he is being dishonest.

Because everybody that can read and has half a brain knows what "I will go down now" means.

He would NOT say the same things about any other book that he reads, ONLY the Bible because it does NOT fit his man-made opinions, that have been inspired by the Devil to cause ignorance and doubt of the Word of God.
Well...I am sure you would agree that the Bible is not just any book. Of course, I don't treat it as such! I have questioned your reading comprehension also since you bring it up. You have argued that Henry Thiessen supports your contention that Dake is not a tri-theist but Thiessen's doctrine on these matters is the same as mine. I can easily demonstrate this.
You say that you "can easily demonstrate this!"

Acting as you do in your interpretation of the Bible... I would say you just said: "demonstration is impossible and I am unable to do this."
I will step up and prove my assertion. I have a somewhat busy schedule today, but I can use a standard Catholic theology manual such as Ludwig Ott's "Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma" and show that regarding the doctrine of God, Thiessen is in more or less perfect agreement. If I am as wrong as you say and if I am in agreement with Thiessen, then Thiessen is also as wrong as you say and does not support Dake's position. Dake and Thiessen define terms such as "Divine Essence" or "Omniscience" in radically different ways to the point of being contrary.
You say that you "will step up and prove your assertion!"

Acting as you do in your interpretation of the Bible... I would say you just said: "you are unable to walk and have no proof of what you assert!"


God bless
Leon Bible

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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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Re: If God does NOT have a body then how did he sit, wear clothes and have hair on His head?

Post by bibleman »

Polemique wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 2:27 pm
Hello Gents: New here, thank you for allowing me to join. I heard about God has a body. I would ask if everyone believes in the Holy Bible. Assuming the answer is 'Yes", do you believe in the Holy Trinity and assuming the answer is "Yes", you believe Elohim, Adonai, Y'Shua, and this same Holy Trinity are this same God in the OT and NT? Assuming this is "Yes", Was the Son of God incarnate subjected to created birth, life, death, resurrection, ascension, and sits at the right hand of the Father? Assuming "Yes" as most Christians would adhere to this Tradition handed down to faithful men, does this same Holy Trinity godhead then have two bodies with Christ having a set of hands (to sit next to the father) and also the Father having a set of hands or have our righteous forefathers portrayed to us that God the Father is infinite and not defined by His creation? It seems some would confine the Holy Trinity to the confines of finite human capacity, that man is able to comprehend the infinite consuming fire without dying. Apostle Paul said that and we know that Apostle John the Revelator portrayed this as well. That we cannot fully translate infinite things to mortal understanding.

Does the Holy Spirit then also have a body like the Father and the Son, since they are One Godhead? We dimly see and understand, as though in a mirror. Then, we shall see fully as He does. Bodies are material and fallen, complex. Complexity is of that which is created. Complexity is also of the fallen nature pertaining to decay, oxidation, lustful reproduction and bloody childbirth, fluid, pathologies, hate, emotion. All of these are of the fallen nature not indicative of Edenic Paradise. This image of the Holy Trinity of man in paradise could not be the same as the fallen nature. We have fragmented fallen knowledge and understanding.

Many different questions leading to one:

ultimately, why must the Father have an incarnate body when He is only temporally incarnate? ie, birth, life, death, resurrection, ascension.

He is temporarily incarnate because time is a constraint of fallen nature. I do not confound any person, or essence, of the Holy Trinity. He is eternally the Father, eternally the Son, and eternally the Holy Spirit---ONE GOD.....Now, I do not understand this. I can describe it, but not explain it. This is what the Hebrews and early Christians knew as a mystery. The mystery of the Holy Trinity: Knowable, yes, Audible, yes. Visible, No. There are visible and invisible natures observed in creation. Are these why we know there are corporeal and incorporeal bodies?

Why, then, do angels have incorporeal bodies and can also possess human forms of body? (entertaining angels unaware) Yet, there are still different types of angels as well. We cannot observe with our eyes forces holding earth in place and rotating the heavens around earth. We know it happens but no one can explain the CAUSE. we can describe them in a limited manner.

Why then would the Father have a materialistic, constrained type of body? A body, by its very essence and nature, is not infinite, right? How can a body be infinite everywhere filling all things and in every place?

So, it seems to me that the Son has the resurrected body that moves through walls and matter but while the incarnate or resurrected Son God was here amongst the disciples (and the world), the Eternal Father was not displaced into the incarnate, iow, one did not leave the other. No! The eternal Father remained everywhere and in all places because the entirety of the Godhead is immovable and bodiless, not subjected to its creation but transcendent. Only in the Son, was the Holy Trinity incarnate. WHY? Because our perception of the godhead does not change the actuality, that INCARNATE, from our perspective, is not separating the unity of the Trinity. Our mortal and finite understanding should not constrain the godhead. Otherwise, explain how the entirety of the Holy Trinity displaced omnipresence and did not obliterate the disciples being only in the body of the Son God?

I hope this is not too long. Forgive me for any redundancy. If it is I will amend. Thank you.
WELCOME to the Discussion.

You asked: "why must the Father have an incarnate body when He is only temporally incarnate?"

What Scripture states that God the Father has an incarnate body?


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

Polemique
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Re: If God does NOT have a body then how did he sit, wear clothes and have hair on His head?

Post by Polemique »

patrissimo wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:18 pm
If God has a body, lives on a planet with cities and streets, and eats food, then does He also need to relieve Himself? Are there celestial sewers on the planet heaven?
Did anyone answer this? My understanding is that a body is limited to creation. If the Holy Trinity (generic, God) were confined to a body, how then could He be everywhere and be all above all, transcending Creation. He would then be a demigod. This sounds Satanic. This sounds pagan. Actually, this sounds like the denigrated god of the muslims and mormons.



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Re: If God does NOT have a body then how did he sit, wear clothes and have hair on His head?

Post by Polemique »

bibleman wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:11 pm
Polemique wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 2:27 pm
Hello Gents: New here, thank you for allowing me to join. I heard about God has a body. I would ask if everyone believes in the Holy Bible. Assuming the answer is 'Yes", do you believe in the Holy Trinity and assuming the answer is "Yes", you believe Elohim, Adonai, Y'Shua, and this same Holy Trinity are this same God in the OT and NT? Assuming this is "Yes", Was the Son of God incarnate subjected to created birth, life, death, resurrection, ascension, and sits at the right hand of the Father? Assuming "Yes" as most Christians would adhere to this Tradition handed down to faithful men, does this same Holy Trinity godhead then have two bodies with Christ having a set of hands (to sit next to the father) and also the Father having a set of hands or have our righteous forefathers portrayed to us that God the Father is infinite and not defined by His creation? It seems some would confine the Holy Trinity to the confines of finite human capacity, that man is able to comprehend the infinite consuming fire without dying. Apostle Paul said that and we know that Apostle John the Revelator portrayed this as well. That we cannot fully translate infinite things to mortal understanding.

Does the Holy Spirit then also have a body like the Father and the Son, since they are One Godhead? We dimly see and understand, as though in a mirror. Then, we shall see fully as He does. Bodies are material and fallen, complex. Complexity is of that which is created. Complexity is also of the fallen nature pertaining to decay, oxidation, lustful reproduction and bloody childbirth, fluid, pathologies, hate, emotion. All of these are of the fallen nature not indicative of Edenic Paradise. This image of the Holy Trinity of man in paradise could not be the same as the fallen nature. We have fragmented fallen knowledge and understanding.

Many different questions leading to one:

ultimately, why must the Father have an incarnate body when He is only temporally incarnate? ie, birth, life, death, resurrection, ascension.

He is temporarily incarnate because time is a constraint of fallen nature. I do not confound any person, or essence, of the Holy Trinity. He is eternally the Father, eternally the Son, and eternally the Holy Spirit---ONE GOD.....Now, I do not understand this. I can describe it, but not explain it. This is what the Hebrews and early Christians knew as a mystery. The mystery of the Holy Trinity: Knowable, yes, Audible, yes. Visible, No. There are visible and invisible natures observed in creation. Are these why we know there are corporeal and incorporeal bodies?

Why, then, do angels have incorporeal bodies and can also possess human forms of body? (entertaining angels unaware) Yet, there are still different types of angels as well. We cannot observe with our eyes forces holding earth in place and rotating the heavens around earth. We know it happens but no one can explain the CAUSE. we can describe them in a limited manner.

Why then would the Father have a materialistic, constrained type of body? A body, by its very essence and nature, is not infinite, right? How can a body be infinite everywhere filling all things and in every place?

So, it seems to me that the Son has the resurrected body that moves through walls and matter but while the incarnate or resurrected Son God was here amongst the disciples (and the world), the Eternal Father was not displaced into the incarnate, iow, one did not leave the other. No! The eternal Father remained everywhere and in all places because the entirety of the Godhead is immovable and bodiless, not subjected to its creation but transcendent. Only in the Son, was the Holy Trinity incarnate. WHY? Because our perception of the godhead does not change the actuality, that INCARNATE, from our perspective, is not separating the unity of the Trinity. Our mortal and finite understanding should not constrain the godhead. Otherwise, explain how the entirety of the Holy Trinity displaced omnipresence and did not obliterate the disciples being only in the body of the Son God?

I hope this is not too long. Forgive me for any redundancy. If it is I will amend. Thank you.
WELCOME to the Discussion.

You asked: "why must the Father have an incarnate body when He is only temporally incarnate?"

What Scripture states that God the Father has an incarnate body?
Thank you. I only know of the Son being bodily incarnate.



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Re: If God does NOT have a body then how did he sit, wear clothes and have hair on His head?

Post by Polemique »

My apologies, I am trying to understand the interface here. Specifically, how do I respond to an individual response by replying without quotes every time? Thank you.



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Re: If God does NOT have a body then how did he sit, wear clothes and have hair on His head?

Post by Polemique »

If God, the Father, has a body, why do you think it would be only temporary?
Personally, I think God is a spirit, and must be worshipped in spirit and truth.
And, that references to "God's" body parts are in the sense of the entirety of the Godhead and not just of the Father.
That 'entirety' would be God the Father and the Word.
[/quote]


If God the Father had a material body He would not be God eternal, but a demigod as the Nephillim or demons, or just an angel as they are interdimensional.

Yes, that is also my understanding that God is Spirit, not "a spirit". This references that which is not material, corporeal, or created; transcendent. That which has a body is subject to complexity and entropy as the planets, earth, mankind, plants......God, therefore, would not be subject to complexity, parts, division.....the SON though while not being divided subjected himself temporally to his creation, birth, life, death, resurrection, and ascension.

So if 'Body" means entirety then this would include the Holy Spirit. They then are declared to be indivisible and one essence.



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Re: If God does NOT have a body then how did he sit, wear clothes and have hair on His head?

Post by luchnia »

Polemique wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 5:47 pm
If God, the Father, has a body, why do you think it would be only temporary?
Personally, I think God is a spirit, and must be worshipped in spirit and truth.
And, that references to "God's" body parts are in the sense of the entirety of the Godhead and not just of the Father.
That 'entirety' would be God the Father and the Word.

If God the Father had a material body He would not be God eternal, but a demigod as the Nephillim or demons, or just an angel as they are interdimensional.

Yes, that is also my understanding that God is Spirit, not "a spirit". This references that which is not material, corporeal, or created; transcendent. That which has a body is subject to complexity and entropy as the planets, earth, mankind, plants......God, therefore, would not be subject to complexity, parts, division.....the SON though while not being divided subjected himself temporally to his creation, birth, life, death, resurrection, and ascension.

So if 'Body" means entirety then this would include the Holy Spirit. They then are declared to be indivisible and one essence.
[/quote]
So would you think the members of the Godhead should not be referred to as "He" as the Bible does as that alludes to form or body, but maybe should be referred to as "it" or some abstract image?


Word up!

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Re: If God does NOT have a body then how did he sit, wear clothes and have hair on His head?

Post by patrissimo »

luchnia wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 7:19 pm
Polemique wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 5:47 pm
If God, the Father, has a body, why do you think it would be only temporary?
Personally, I think God is a spirit, and must be worshipped in spirit and truth.
And, that references to "God's" body parts are in the sense of the entirety of the Godhead and not just of the Father.
That 'entirety' would be God the Father and the Word.

If God the Father had a material body He would not be God eternal, but a demigod as the Nephillim or demons, or just an angel as they are interdimensional.

Yes, that is also my understanding that God is Spirit, not "a spirit". This references that which is not material, corporeal, or created; transcendent. That which has a body is subject to complexity and entropy as the planets, earth, mankind, plants......God, therefore, would not be subject to complexity, parts, division.....the SON though while not being divided subjected himself temporally to his creation, birth, life, death, resurrection, and ascension.

So if 'Body" means entirety then this would include the Holy Spirit. They then are declared to be indivisible and one essence.
So would you think the members of the Godhead should not be referred to as "He" as the Bible does as that alludes to form or body, but maybe should be referred to as "it" or some abstract image?
[/quote]

Why would a bodiless person need to be referred to as an it? Where do you get the idea that a personal pronoun must refer to a body? I know Scripture says no such thing. It's also interesting to me that you think whatever is not a body is an abstraction. This is liberal theology.


Lord have mercy

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Re: If God does NOT have a body then how did he sit, wear clothes and have hair on His head?

Post by luchnia »

patrissimo wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 7:22 pm
Why would a bodiless person need to be referred to as an it? Where do you get the idea that a personal pronoun must refer to a body? I know Scripture says no such thing. It's also interesting to me that you think whatever is not a body is an abstraction. This is liberal theology.
The personal pronoun he or she refers to masculine of feminine aspects of a person. Those two pronouns always refer to male or female, but of course the darkness in the world is trying to change that now starting with our children. The world wants a bodiless non-gender god.

An essence has no form or shape so one might ask why are the members of the Godhead referred to as a HE as described in the bible? Did the translators make a mistake where this is concerned? Or is essence in the bodiless godhead scenario always to be understood as masculine essences that are somehow persons? BTW person by today's definition is a human being.

What does the bodiless godhead essences show us about other essences in existence throughout the expanse since we are told that we know what we don't see by what we see? Would they be persons too and would they be he or she or is this confined to the bodiless godhead only and not other essences?

Just trying to get a grasp on this baroque non-scriptural understanding of God. It seems similar to the "universal spiritism" belief system such as Maya Angelou, Opra Winfree, and many others hold.


Word up!

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