Dake Bible Discussion BoardIs God in control

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bibleman
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Re: Is God in control

Post by bibleman »

Hill Top wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:18 pm
luchnia wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 6:17 am
Hill Top wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 1:40 pm
luchnia wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:59 am
Hill Top wrote:
Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:25 pm
bibleman wrote:
Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:08 pm
Above you said: "If God wanted to "control" us, He would."
Do you have a Scripture for this?



Not an exact quote, but I do have scripture saying that God allows us to freely make our own decisions...
"And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely." (Rev 21:6)
If He wanted to control us, He would force us to "take of the fountain of the water of life".
It is up tp us.
Interesting change in your view about the will of man. It is rare that people are open to change their views about their doctrines. If we are to be mature and grow in Christ we must all realize there might be more to what God has given us in His word than how we perceive a matter.
You'll need to remind me of what "view" I have changed.
You believed that once a man is born again he no longer can choose to reject God, which means that God is in control of man's will and man is no longer in control of his choice to believe. That contradicts much of what you are posting in this thread about the will of man.
There is a big difference between "can" and "will" choose something.
For anyone reborn of God's seed, the ability to bring forth the fruit of the devil is an impossibility.
"Choosing" to sin is not an option for the reborn.
Just as "flying" is not an option for an alligator.
The choices we make indicate from whence we are born.
Above you said: "Choosing" to sin is not an option for the reborn."

Does God take the power of choice from the person who is reborn?

I mean does the reborn lose the power of choice as the new birth?


God bless
Leon Bible

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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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luchnia
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Re: Is God in control

Post by luchnia »

Hill Top wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:18 pm
luchnia wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 6:17 am
Hill Top wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 1:40 pm
luchnia wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:59 am
Hill Top wrote:
Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:25 pm
bibleman wrote:
Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:08 pm
Above you said: "If God wanted to "control" us, He would."
Do you have a Scripture for this?



Not an exact quote, but I do have scripture saying that God allows us to freely make our own decisions...
"And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely." (Rev 21:6)
If He wanted to control us, He would force us to "take of the fountain of the water of life".
It is up tp us.
Interesting change in your view about the will of man. It is rare that people are open to change their views about their doctrines. If we are to be mature and grow in Christ we must all realize there might be more to what God has given us in His word than how we perceive a matter.
You'll need to remind me of what "view" I have changed.
You believed that once a man is born again he no longer can choose to reject God, which means that God is in control of man's will and man is no longer in control of his choice to believe. That contradicts much of what you are posting in this thread about the will of man.
There is a big difference between "can" and "will" choose something.
For anyone reborn of God's seed, the ability to bring forth the fruit of the devil is an impossibility.
"Choosing" to sin is not an option for the reborn.
Just as "flying" is not an option for an alligator.
The choices we make indicate from whence we are born.
So once a man is reborn from above he can no longer choose to do evil? At that point God controls (forces) man's will/choice pertaining to God and man can no longer choose to reject God. So man can make all other choices he so desires except that one?


Word up!

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Ironman
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Re: Is God in control

Post by Ironman »

"So once a man is reborn from above he can no longer choose to do evil? At that point God controls (forces) man's will/choice pertaining to God and man can no longer choose to reject God. So man can make all other choices he so desires except that one?"
A free will agent reborn from above or not can return to sin anytime it chooses.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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bibleman
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Re: Is God in control

Post by bibleman »

Ironman wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 4:21 pm
"So once a man is reborn from above he can no longer choose to do evil? At that point God controls (forces) man's will/choice pertaining to God and man can no longer choose to reject God. So man can make all other choices he so desires except that one?"
A free will agent reborn from above or not can return to sin anytime it chooses.
Seems like I remember Bible passage that proves you to be right were backsliders are concerned!

2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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Re: Is God in control

Post by Bible Reader »

bibleman wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 8:40 am
Bible Reader wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 8:30 am
bibleman wrote:
Sat Feb 19, 2022 11:25 pm
Bible Reader wrote:
Sat Feb 19, 2022 10:49 pm
Question to those that say God is not in control, who do you think is in control? Remember Jesus holds the keys of death and the grave. Rev 1:18
Also all authority was given to Jesus Matthew 28:18
With that in mind who do you think is in control?
MAN is in control through the law of sowing and reaping.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Psalm 115:16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.
So man controls hurricanes and storms? Man controls beautiful sunrises and sunsets. Man controls the birds singing and brooks babbling? Wow! I vote we have more beautiful sunsets! Man makes decisions that carry consequences but God controls creation.
How do you determine that the Bible is wrong in these Scriptures?

Man's choices determine the world we live in: Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

God has given the control of the Earth to man: Psalm 115:16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

Gal 6:7 is speaking to man's spiritual nature which is sinful
Look at the whole passage Galatians 6:7-8 (KJV)
[7] Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
[8] For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Psalm 115:16 isn't talking of control only place God has given humans to live.

Now look at Colossians 3:1-4 (KJV)
[1] If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
[2] Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
[3] For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
[4] When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

We are not to worry about this earth or the things in it our minds are to be on Heaven and Jesus. This earth is not our home if we are born again. The problem is people think God should/would create heaven on earth. Not so earth is sin tainted that does not mean God is not in control. When the wind threatened to sink the boat Jesus and the disciples were in Jesus quieted the wind. That is control. Jesus then controlled nature by allowing Peter to walk on water, again Jesus was in control.
Satan was defeated at the cross, to deny God's control is to deny the work of the cross.

But once again that should not be our focus or concern Colossians quoted above our interest should be on things above (Jesus and Heaven).

You mentioned Hurricanes but Jesus told us not to worry about things that can kill us instead worry about things that can kill our soul. Hurricanes are a part of a fall earth it's misery to man is man's punishment for disobeying God. But if we are born again we are new creatures not part of this earth or even worrying about this earth but our mind and focus should be on the place where we belong, heaven.

Who can deny God's control when we read the story of Joseph and the children of Israel. Or who can deny God's control as the children of Israel wondered in the wilderness. Who can deny God's control when we read the story of Noah and the Ark? Who can deny God's control when we look at His Jesus? Who can deny God's control when we read of Paul's missionary journeys? Who can deny God's control when we read of Peter,s ministry. Who can deny God's control when we real Revelations? In all of these we see God's control never violating man's free will but always accomplishing God's perfect plan.

In any case none of our concern should be of this world, or even care about it our focus as born again new creations should be concerned about the things of God. If you are worried about who is controlling this world your thoughts, your concerns are not on heaven but rather entangled in the things of this world which according to scripture says you are not a new creation which means you have not been born again.
L



Hill Top
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Re: Is God in control

Post by Hill Top »

Ironman wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 4:21 pm
"So once a man is reborn from above he can no longer choose to do evil? At that point God controls (forces) man's will/choice pertaining to God and man can no longer choose to reject God. So man can make all other choices he so desires except that one?"
A free will agent reborn from above or not can return to sin anytime it chooses.
Were that true, then 1 John 3:9 is a lie.
And we can expect apple seeds to bear onions.



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luchnia
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Re: Is God in control

Post by luchnia »

Hill Top wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:17 pm
Ironman wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 4:21 pm
"So once a man is reborn from above he can no longer choose to do evil? At that point God controls (forces) man's will/choice pertaining to God and man can no longer choose to reject God. So man can make all other choices he so desires except that one?"
A free will agent reborn from above or not can return to sin anytime it chooses.
Were that true, then 1 John 3:9 is a lie.
And we can expect apple seeds to bear onions.
Actually that supports 1 John 3:9 in its context. It is only when you take 1 John 3:9 out of context and try to make it mean something else it does not line up.
Last edited by luchnia on Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Word up!

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luchnia
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Re: Is God in control

Post by luchnia »

Ironman wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 4:21 pm
"So once a man is reborn from above he can no longer choose to do evil? At that point God controls (forces) man's will/choice pertaining to God and man can no longer choose to reject God. So man can make all other choices he so desires except that one?"
A free will agent reborn from above or not can return to sin anytime it chooses.
Yep, this is true according to God's word.


Word up!

Hill Top
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Re: Is God in control

Post by Hill Top »

luchnia wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:25 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:17 pm
Ironman wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 4:21 pm
"So once a man is reborn from above he can no longer choose to do evil? At that point God controls (forces) man's will/choice pertaining to God and man can no longer choose to reject God. So man can make all other choices he so desires except that one?"
A free will agent reborn from above or not can return to sin anytime it chooses.
Were that true, then 1 John 3:9 is a lie.
And we can expect apple seeds to bear onions.
Actually that supports 1 John 3:9 in its context. It is only when you take it out of context and try to make it mean something else it does not line up.
Here is the context..."Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another." (1 John 3:6-11)
I can't figure out how anyone could miss the context.
Unless, like so many have, they want to include sin in the church, themselves, and in everyone they know.



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bibleman
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Re: Is God in control

Post by bibleman »

Bible Reader wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 8:55 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 8:40 am
Bible Reader wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 8:30 am
bibleman wrote:
Sat Feb 19, 2022 11:25 pm
Bible Reader wrote:
Sat Feb 19, 2022 10:49 pm
Question to those that say God is not in control, who do you think is in control? Remember Jesus holds the keys of death and the grave. Rev 1:18
Also all authority was given to Jesus Matthew 28:18
With that in mind who do you think is in control?
MAN is in control through the law of sowing and reaping.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Psalm 115:16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.
So man controls hurricanes and storms? Man controls beautiful sunrises and sunsets. Man controls the birds singing and brooks babbling? Wow! I vote we have more beautiful sunsets! Man makes decisions that carry consequences but God controls creation.
How do you determine that the Bible is wrong in these Scriptures?

Man's choices determine the world we live in: Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

God has given the control of the Earth to man: Psalm 115:16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

Gal 6:7 is speaking to man's spiritual nature which is sinful
Look at the whole passage Galatians 6:7-8 (KJV)
[7] Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
[8] For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Psalm 115:16 isn't talking of control only place God has given humans to live.

Now look at Colossians 3:1-4 (KJV)
[1] If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
[2] Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
[3] For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
[4] When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

We are not to worry about this earth or the things in it our minds are to be on Heaven and Jesus. This earth is not our home if we are born again. The problem is people think God should/would create heaven on earth. Not so earth is sin tainted that does not mean God is not in control. When the wind threatened to sink the boat Jesus and the disciples were in Jesus quieted the wind. That is control. Jesus then controlled nature by allowing Peter to walk on water, again Jesus was in control.
Satan was defeated at the cross, to deny God's control is to deny the work of the cross.

But once again that should not be our focus or concern Colossians quoted above our interest should be on things above (Jesus and Heaven).

You mentioned Hurricanes but Jesus told us not to worry about things that can kill us instead worry about things that can kill our soul. Hurricanes are a part of a fall earth it's misery to man is man's punishment for disobeying God. But if we are born again we are new creatures not part of this earth or even worrying about this earth but our mind and focus should be on the place where we belong, heaven.

Who can deny God's control when we read the story of Joseph and the children of Israel. Or who can deny God's control as the children of Israel wondered in the wilderness. Who can deny God's control when we read the story of Noah and the Ark? Who can deny God's control when we look at His Jesus? Who can deny God's control when we read of Paul's missionary journeys? Who can deny God's control when we read of Peter,s ministry. Who can deny God's control when we real Revelations? In all of these we see God's control never violating man's free will but always accomplishing God's perfect plan.

In any case none of our concern should be of this world, or even care about it our focus as born again new creations should be concerned about the things of God. If you are worried about who is controlling this world your thoughts, your concerns are not on heaven but rather entangled in the things of this world which according to scripture says you are not a new creation which means you have not been born again.
L
Well first off the SPIRIT is always FIRST and the physical. But be that as it may, what ever we sow we reap. That is man is in control.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Psalm 115:16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

And the EARTH physical has indeed been given to the children of men as Genesis also points out.

Genesis 1:26-28 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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