Dake Bible Discussion BoardIs God without limits?

General Discussion Forum devoted to the study of God's Word in Honor of Finis J. Dake.
User avatar
bibleman
Administrator
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 1998 5:23 pm
Location: South Carolina
Contact:

Re: Is God without limits?

Post by bibleman »

macca wrote:
Mon Dec 20, 2021 6:41 am
Just a thought on this, anyone that wants to know God, who He is and what He does, will never find out unless he becomes born again.
1 Cor. 2:10-16;
Also, confusion and Satan will accommodate anyone that attempts to understand God outside of the written word of God.
You know, I understand where you are coming from... but Dake would disagree that someone must be born again to understand God and the Bible. He does indicate that a Saint would have an advantage IF of course he allows the Spirit of God to illuminate them. As is demonstrated on this board from time to time, even Christians refuse to believe the simple truths of the Bible.
Some argue from 1 Cor. 2:14 that the Bible is hard to understand, but this passage does not say this. It says that the “natural man” cannot receive the things of the Spirit, but it does not teach that sinners cannot understand the letter of the Word. Some use 2 Pet. 3:16-18 to teach that sinners cannot understand the Bible, but this passage does not say that. It does say that the “unstable and unlearned” wrest the Scriptures to their own destruction. If sinners could not understand the Bible, how could they get saved or know what God requires of them? How could God judge them if they cannot understand the things for which they will be judged? The fact is that many sinners understand the Bible better than saints, because they are more sensible than saints and will take the Bible to mean what it says. If all saints would do this they would have a distinct advantage over the sinner in that they have the Spirit of God in their lives to illuminate them, while sinners do not (Jn. 14:17; Rom. 8:9).
Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 38.


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

User avatar
luchnia
Shall Not He that Spared Not His Own Son Freely Give Us All Things?
Posts: 669
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:01 am

Re: Is God without limits?

Post by luchnia »

bibleman wrote:
Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:02 am
macca wrote:
Mon Dec 20, 2021 6:41 am
Just a thought on this, anyone that wants to know God, who He is and what He does, will never find out unless he becomes born again.
1 Cor. 2:10-16;
Also, confusion and Satan will accommodate anyone that attempts to understand God outside of the written word of God.
You know, I understand where you are coming from... but Dake would disagree that someone must be born again to understand God and the Bible. He does indicate that a Saint would have an advantage IF of course he allows the Spirit of God to illuminate them. As is demonstrated on this board from time to time, even Christians refuse to believe the simple truths of the Bible.
Some argue from 1 Cor. 2:14 that the Bible is hard to understand, but this passage does not say this. It says that the “natural man” cannot receive the things of the Spirit, but it does not teach that sinners cannot understand the letter of the Word. Some use 2 Pet. 3:16-18 to teach that sinners cannot understand the Bible, but this passage does not say that. It does say that the “unstable and unlearned” wrest the Scriptures to their own destruction. If sinners could not understand the Bible, how could they get saved or know what God requires of them? How could God judge them if they cannot understand the things for which they will be judged? The fact is that many sinners understand the Bible better than saints, because they are more sensible than saints and will take the Bible to mean what it says. If all saints would do this they would have a distinct advantage over the sinner in that they have the Spirit of God in their lives to illuminate them, while sinners do not (Jn. 14:17; Rom. 8:9).
Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 38.
I think natural man can understand God to a degree, but I think it ends at certain levels whereas scripture is clear - like the deep things of God. For those type of things are not given to them, but to the saints. I like what Dake states about the letter of the word.


Word up!

Bible Reader
Zechariah
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:05 pm

Re: Is God without limits?

Post by Bible Reader »

Is God of all of creation without limits? YES! Now ever God does place limits on Himself. He also makes promises, covenants, and statues that He will not violate.



patrissimo
Having Conquered All, Stand, Ready to Do Battle Again
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 5:54 pm

Re: Is God without limits?

Post by patrissimo »

patrissimo wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:21 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:02 pm
patrissimo wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 4:57 pm
Yes. God is Personal.

Is He greater than what can be thought?
Ephesians 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
Dake seems to think that it is possible to think too highly of God. In his note *c for II Chron. 2:6 ("But who is able to build him an house, seeing the heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain him?") he wrote:

"Such statements from scripture give some a mystical impression of God - One so great, so large, so present everywhere, so spiritual and invisible that their theories become out of proportion with truth expressed in other passages."

See? He says "One so great..." This implies a disagreement with the conception of God which says He is greater than what can be thought. Dake means this concept of God is so great that it is too great. How is it greater to not be greater than what can be thought? I can think of a being greater than Dake's conception of God who needs angels to find things out for Him; namely, one who knows everything and needs no one to learn anything. In what sense could it be greater to need assistance to learn things rather than being Omniscient?

He says "so present everywhere..." This is a denial of Omnipresence (in the traditional sense). Again, in what sense is it greater to not be present everywhere rather than to be wholly present everywhere?
What does Dake mean by "mystical impression of God?"


Lord have mercy

patrissimo
Having Conquered All, Stand, Ready to Do Battle Again
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 5:54 pm

Re: Is God without limits?

Post by patrissimo »

bibleman wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:34 pm
patrissimo wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:21 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:02 pm
patrissimo wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 4:57 pm
Yes. God is Personal.

Is He greater than what can be thought?
Ephesians 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
Dake seems to think that it is possible to think too highly of God. In his note *c for II Chron. 2:6 ("But who is able to build him an house, seeing the heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain him?") he wrote:

"Such statements from scripture give some a mystical impression of God - One so great, so large, so present everywhere, so spiritual and invisible that their theories become out of proportion with truth expressed in other passages."

See? He says "One so great..." This implies a disagreement with the conception of God which says He is greater than what can be thought. Dake means this concept of God is so great that it is too great. How is it greater to not be greater than what can be thought? I can think of a being greater than Dake's conception of God who needs angels to find things out for Him; namely, one who knows everything and needs no one to learn anything. In what sense could it be greater to need assistance to learn things rather than being Omniscient?

He says "so present everywhere..." This is a denial of Omnipresence (in the traditional sense). Again, in what sense is it greater to not be present everywhere rather than to be wholly present everywhere?
Yes some people do in fact think about God in ways that the Bible does not allow for.

This is a true statement: "Such statements from scripture give some a mystical impression of God - One so great, so large, so present everywhere, so spiritual and invisible that their theories become out of proportion with truth expressed in other passages."

Just because God is greater than what we can think or imagine does not mean that WHAT we think or imagine is true of God.

Example: some think God is a mass murdered. He is NOT a mass murdered.

You said: "I can think of a being greater than Dake's conception of God who needs angels to find things out for Him;"

Doesn't matter what you think... When the Bible gives us examples of angels telling Him things then that is the way it is, no matter if you can understand it or not.

If God says He is LOVE - then even if you say: "how can a God be a god of love who sends people to Hell?" Doesn't matter it only shows your shallow thinking concerning God's ways of righteousness and judgement.

So all of man's little thoughts and ideas they get from want-to-be theologians who don't know God... makes no difference. God is what He says he is in Scripture.

If you can't understand that, then it simple shows you need to open you mind to the Word of God and be renewed to HIS revelation about Himself.
A problem with the argument that some people call God a mass murderer when He is not is that everyone knows it is greater to not be a mass murderer than to be one. Those who make this false accusation against God are already attempting to lower God's dignity with their accusation. One the other hand, when I say a God who is so truly Omniscient is greater than one who needs angels to help Him learn, I am not saying anything contradictory. It really is greater to know everything than to need help in learning things. If I am incorrect about this, then I need an answer to the question how is it greater to need help in learning things than to never need such help?


Lord have mercy

User avatar
bibleman
Administrator
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 1998 5:23 pm
Location: South Carolina
Contact:

Re: Is God without limits?

Post by bibleman »

patrissimo wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:26 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:34 pm
patrissimo wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:21 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:02 pm
patrissimo wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 4:57 pm
Yes. God is Personal.

Is He greater than what can be thought?
Ephesians 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
Dake seems to think that it is possible to think too highly of God. In his note *c for II Chron. 2:6 ("But who is able to build him an house, seeing the heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain him?") he wrote:

"Such statements from scripture give some a mystical impression of God - One so great, so large, so present everywhere, so spiritual and invisible that their theories become out of proportion with truth expressed in other passages."

See? He says "One so great..." This implies a disagreement with the conception of God which says He is greater than what can be thought. Dake means this concept of God is so great that it is too great. How is it greater to not be greater than what can be thought? I can think of a being greater than Dake's conception of God who needs angels to find things out for Him; namely, one who knows everything and needs no one to learn anything. In what sense could it be greater to need assistance to learn things rather than being Omniscient?

He says "so present everywhere..." This is a denial of Omnipresence (in the traditional sense). Again, in what sense is it greater to not be present everywhere rather than to be wholly present everywhere?
Yes some people do in fact think about God in ways that the Bible does not allow for.

This is a true statement: "Such statements from scripture give some a mystical impression of God - One so great, so large, so present everywhere, so spiritual and invisible that their theories become out of proportion with truth expressed in other passages."

Just because God is greater than what we can think or imagine does not mean that WHAT we think or imagine is true of God.

Example: some think God is a mass murdered. He is NOT a mass murdered.

You said: "I can think of a being greater than Dake's conception of God who needs angels to find things out for Him;"

Doesn't matter what you think... When the Bible gives us examples of angels telling Him things then that is the way it is, no matter if you can understand it or not.

If God says He is LOVE - then even if you say: "how can a God be a god of love who sends people to Hell?" Doesn't matter it only shows your shallow thinking concerning God's ways of righteousness and judgement.

So all of man's little thoughts and ideas they get from want-to-be theologians who don't know God... makes no difference. God is what He says he is in Scripture.

If you can't understand that, then it simple shows you need to open you mind to the Word of God and be renewed to HIS revelation about Himself.
A problem with the argument that some people call God a mass murderer when He is not is that everyone knows it is greater to not be a mass murderer than to be one. Those who make this false accusation against God are already attempting to lower God's dignity with their accusation. One the other hand, when I say a God who is so truly Omniscient is greater than one who needs angels to help Him learn, I am not saying anything contradictory. It really is greater to know everything than to need help in learning things. If I am incorrect about this, then I need an answer to the question how is it greater to need help in learning things than to never need such help?
Who ever said God "needed" help to learn things?

The fact that He uses others to give Him information does NOT mean that He "needs" it delivered in that way.

The Bible simply reveals that He does in fact receive information from man and angels in His relationship with us.

The facts are clear in Zechariah that angels transmit information to God.

Zechariah 6:5 And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth.
6 The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country.
7 And the bay went forth, and sought to go that they might walk to and fro through the earth: and he said, Get you hence, walk to and fro through the earth. So they walked to and fro through the earth.
8 Then cried he upon me, and spake unto me, saying, Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted my spirit in the north country.

Now you can simply believe that are keep banging your head against a man made theological wall!


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

patrissimo
Having Conquered All, Stand, Ready to Do Battle Again
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 5:54 pm

Re: Is God without limits?

Post by patrissimo »

You made the argument that if God asks a question to which He already knows the answer then it means it is a stage performance. I have proven this to not be the case.


Lord have mercy

User avatar
bibleman
Administrator
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 1998 5:23 pm
Location: South Carolina
Contact:

Re: Is God without limits?

Post by bibleman »

patrissimo wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 4:54 pm
You made the argument that if God asks a question to which He already knows the answer then it means it is a stage performance. I have proven this to not be the case.
When did I say that God asks a question that he already knows the answer too???

PS: the only thing you have proven is the faulty imaginations of your own mind.


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

patrissimo
Having Conquered All, Stand, Ready to Do Battle Again
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 5:54 pm

Re: Is God without limits?

Post by patrissimo »

bibleman wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 5:19 pm
patrissimo wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 4:54 pm
You made the argument that if God asks a question to which He already knows the answer then it means it is a stage performance. I have proven this to not be the case.
When did I say that God asks a question that he already knows the answer too???

PS: the only thing you have proven is the faulty imaginations of your own mind.
You need to re-read what I said.

I am not IMAGINING anything! I am the one arguing that God is not a body. We can't imagine Him and shouldn't try to. You are the one imagining things. You imagine God as having three bodies and living on a planet called heaven. That sounds like imagination. My conception of God cannot be imagined.


Lord have mercy

User avatar
bibleman
Administrator
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 1998 5:23 pm
Location: South Carolina
Contact:

Re: Is God without limits?

Post by bibleman »

patrissimo wrote:
Fri Apr 08, 2022 6:56 pm
bibleman wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 5:19 pm
patrissimo wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 4:54 pm
You made the argument that if God asks a question to which He already knows the answer then it means it is a stage performance. I have proven this to not be the case.
When did I say that God asks a question that he already knows the answer too???

PS: the only thing you have proven is the faulty imaginations of your own mind.
You need to re-read what I said.

I am not IMAGINING anything! I am the one arguing that God is not a body. We can't imagine Him and shouldn't try to. You are the one imagining things. You imagine God as having three bodies and living on a planet called heaven. That sounds like imagination. My conception of God cannot be imagined.
Your argument that God does NOT have a body is contrary to the Scriptural record, as has been proven again and again.

God does NOT have three bodies. Each member of the Trinity has their own body. I assume that you believe that Jesus has a body. And it has been proved in these post that God the Father has a body. Would you not expect the Holy Ghost to also have a body!

Luke 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

And yes God does live on the planet Heaven. Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

Post Reply