Dake Bible Discussion BoardWas William Bradford and the brethren of Plymouth righteous OR sinful for executing a 17 year old boy for beastiality?

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Hill Top
Repent and Be Baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ Because of the Remission of Sins
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: Was William Bradford and the brethren of Plymouth righteous OR sinful for executing a 17 year old boy for beastialit

Post by Hill Top »

bibleman wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:15 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:20 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:09 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:05 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:33 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:45 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:20 am

So, I f I understand it right, Hilltop you disagree with administering the death penalty for murderers.
I disagree with men usurping the power of God.
Life and death are HIs domains alone.
Well.. What about someone who steals your new truck?
Say you find the thief in the next town and he is driving your truck... I guess according to your logic, we should not call the police, should not report to the police that we have found a stolen truck, should not ask the police to go get the truck, or arrest the person who stole the truck... etc.
I don't agree with your thoughts about logic.
A truck thief won't be killed for his actions.
Were my truck stolen, I would report it to the police, and my insurance company.
Were it recovered, and the thief arrested, his trial and conviction would be out of my hands.
Personally, I would forgive him and pray for him.
BUT we should keep paying for the stolen truck ourselves that we do not have, and just let the thief continue driving the truck and enjoying it while we keep paying it off for the next 5 years.
I won't drive a new truck, or any vehicle, without insurance.
After all God is the thief's judge and God will judge the criminal NOT us.
Is that about how you feel?
Maybe that is why God instituted insurance companies as well as police forces?

If he was never caught I would still pray for his deliverance from the darkness.
OK so you believe in MAN administering justice where thievery is concerned!
As long as it doesn't entail a death penalty.
BUT NOT were murder is concerned?
There are penalties besides death, even for murderers.

I am against killing folks, for any reason.
So IF your had a child and a man was going to chop your child's head off... You would NOT stop him if the only way you had to stop him was to kill him!

That is sad, very sad.
Have you ever heard of prayer?
Ever had a prayer answered?
Ever prayed for those around you?

Your suppositions make me think you feel I have ever heard of prayer.
I wonder if Abraham had ever heard of prayer when he went after Lot and his family?
Had David ever heard of prayer when he killed Goliath?
Had God Himself ever heard of prayer when he killed Herod?
It is apparent that they did, and their prayers were answered...like mine have been answered for my loved ones.
Since you do not have a child, you really don't know how to answer the question anyway.
More suppositions?
Based on my answers so far, it is apparent, I hope, that I will mot kill anyone for any reason.
God is my protector and rock of defense.
It is His will if good or bad occurs to me, and I will abide by His wishes...to His glory.



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Ironman
Fast the Chosen Fast of God... Then Shalt Thou Be Like a Spring of Water, Whose Waters Fail Not
Posts: 1275
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:29 pm

Re: Was William Bradford and the brethren of Plymouth righteous OR sinful for executing a 17 year old boy for beastialit

Post by Ironman »

Hill Top wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:23 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:15 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:20 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:09 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:05 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:33 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:45 pm

I disagree with men usurping the power of God.
Life and death are HIs domains alone.


I don't agree with your thoughts about logic.
A truck thief won't be killed for his actions.
Were my truck stolen, I would report it to the police, and my insurance company.
Were it recovered, and the thief arrested, his trial and conviction would be out of my hands.
Personally, I would forgive him and pray for him.


I won't drive a new truck, or any vehicle, without insurance.


Maybe that is why God instituted insurance companies as well as police forces?

If he was never caught I would still pray for his deliverance from the darkness.
OK so you believe in MAN administering justice where thievery is concerned!
As long as it doesn't entail a death penalty.
BUT NOT were murder is concerned?
There are penalties besides death, even for murderers.

I am against killing folks, for any reason.
So IF your had a child and a man was going to chop your child's head off... You would NOT stop him if the only way you had to stop him was to kill him!

That is sad, very sad.
Have you ever heard of prayer?
Ever had a prayer answered?
Ever prayed for those around you?

Your suppositions make me think you feel I have ever heard of prayer.
I wonder if Abraham had ever heard of prayer when he went after Lot and his family?
Had David ever heard of prayer when he killed Goliath?
Had God Himself ever heard of prayer when he killed Herod?
It is apparent that they did, and their prayers were answered...like mine have been answered for my loved ones.
Since you do not have a child, you really don't know how to answer the question anyway.
More suppositions?
Based on my answers so far, it is apparent, I hope, that I will mot kill anyone for any reason.
God is my protector and rock of defense.
It is His will if good or bad occurs to me, and I will abide by His wishes...to His glory.


God’s all for self defense, in fact if a man fails in defending his own life and the lives of
his family God says he's nothing more than a poisoned spring! "A troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring." (Proverbs 25:26).

Proverbs 25:26

v, 26 A righteous man who falters before the wicked is like a murky spring and a
polluted well.

1 Timothy 5:8

v, 8 But if anyone does not provide (protection) for his own, and especially for
those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an
unbeliever.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

Grandfather
Pray for Them which Despitefully Persecute You
Posts: 484
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:51 pm

Re: Was William Bradford and the brethren of Plymouth righteous OR sinful for executing a 17 year old boy for beastialit

Post by Grandfather »

There is a saying used in the planning of military encounters. Everything works according to plan until the moment of first contact. Truthfully, no one knows how they will respond until they actually encounter the situation. People can boast of what they would do, but at this point it is all talk.

As to the OP question: "In today's New Testament Christian age... Was William Bradford and the brethren of Plymouth righteous OR sinful for executing a 17 year old boy for beastiality?" I believe the board has diverged from the original path.

Question one - were they righteous in executing at 17-year-old boy? Because only God knows the thoughts and intentions of the heart, I find it difficult for anyone 350 years later to speak on their heart condition. From what little is reported here, it would be difficult to reconstruct the case accurately. It is impossible to examine the witnesses, the prosecution and the evidence to see how reliable it is. However, if the charge was valid, then they upheld the law. Was the law fair and just? That is another question, but one that was not asked.

Question two, were they sinful. Again, without knowing the condition of their heart it would be impossible to judge. Can someone do the right thing for the wrong reason? I believe they can. Yes, they followed the law, did they delight in the death of this young man? Who knows.



Hill Top
Repent and Be Baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ Because of the Remission of Sins
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: Was William Bradford and the brethren of Plymouth righteous OR sinful for executing a 17 year old boy for beastialit

Post by Hill Top »

Ironman wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:55 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:23 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:15 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:20 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:09 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:05 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:33 pm


OK so you believe in MAN administering justice where thievery is concerned!
As long as it doesn't entail a death penalty.
BUT NOT were murder is concerned?
There are penalties besides death, even for murderers.

I am against killing folks, for any reason.
So IF your had a child and a man was going to chop your child's head off... You would NOT stop him if the only way you had to stop him was to kill him!

That is sad, very sad.
Have you ever heard of prayer?
Ever had a prayer answered?
Ever prayed for those around you?

Your suppositions make me think you feel I have ever heard of prayer.
I wonder if Abraham had ever heard of prayer when he went after Lot and his family?
Had David ever heard of prayer when he killed Goliath?
Had God Himself ever heard of prayer when he killed Herod?
It is apparent that they did, and their prayers were answered...like mine have been answered for my loved ones.
Since you do not have a child, you really don't know how to answer the question anyway.
More suppositions?
Based on my answers so far, it is apparent, I hope, that I will mot kill anyone for any reason.
God is my protector and rock of defense.
It is His will if good or bad occurs to me, and I will abide by His wishes...to His glory.
God’s all for self defense, in fact if a man fails in defending his own life and the lives of
his family God says he's nothing more than a poisoned spring! "A troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring." (Proverbs 25:26).
Proverbs 25:26...v, 26 A righteous man who falters before the wicked is like a murky spring and a
polluted well.
1 Timothy 5:8...v, 8 But if anyone does not provide (protection) for his own, and especially for
those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an
unbeliever.
As our gracious God has guaranteed us escapes from temptation, in 1 Cor 10:13, why don't you think He will also grant escapes from temptations to take vengeance on others?
I would hate to be running around here thinking God was not going to protect me, and I had to do it myself.

Neither Jesus nor Stephen defended themselves from/with violence.
Why should I?
They actually asked God to forgive their abusers.
Jesus in Luke 23:34.
Stephen in Acts 7:60.
And where do we ever see Paul defending himself, or others?

The differences between the OT and NT get wider, and more obvious, every day.



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