Dake Bible Discussion BoardWas William Bradford and the brethren of Plymouth righteous OR sinful for executing a 17 year old boy for beastiality?

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Was William Bradford and the brethren of Plymouth righteous OR sinful for executing a 17 year old boy for beastiality?

Post by bibleman »

In today's New Testament Christian age... Was William Bradford and the brethren of Plymouth righteous OR sinful for executing a 17 year old boy for beastiality?
William Bradford, Of Plymouth Plantation, Norton Anthology of American Literature, Third Edition, From Book II, Chapter XXXII, Anno Dom: 1642

[A HORRIBLE CASE OF BEASTIALITY]

And after the time of the writing of these things befell a very sad accident of the like foul nature in this government, this very year, which I shall now relate.

There was a youth whose name was Thomas Granger. He was servant to an honest man of Duxbury, being about 16 or 17 years of age. (His father and mother lived at the same time at Scituate.) He was this year detected of *, and indicted for the same, with a mare, a cow, two goats, five sheep, two calves and a turkey. Horrible it is to mention, but the truth of the history requires it.

He was first discovered by one that accidentally saw his lewd practice towards the mare. (I forbear particulars.) Being upon it examined and committed, in the end he not only confessed the fact with that beast at that time, but sundry times before and at several times with all the rest of the forenamed in his indictment. And this his free confession was not only in private to the magistrates (though at first he strived to deny it) but to sundry, both ministers and others; and afterwards, upon his indictment, to the whole Court and jury; and confirmed it at his execution. And whereas some of the sheep could not so well be known by his description of them, others with them were brought before him and he declared which were they and which were not.

And accordingly he was cast by the jury and condemned, and after executed about the 8th of September, 1642.

A very sad spectacle it was. For first the mare and then the cow and the rest of the lesser cattle were killed before his face, according to the law, Leviticus xx. 15 and then he himself was executed. The cattle were all cast into a great and large pit that was digged of purpose for them, and no use made of any part of them.


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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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Re: Was William Bradford and the brethren of Plymouth righteous OR sinful for executing a 17 year old boy for beastialit

Post by Ironman »

My answer is yes!

Sadly, bestiality is much, much more common than you think

Did you know that right now it’s entirely legal for a man, or woman, in Texas to walk into a pet store, buy a dog, take that dog home and then have sex with it?

The facts will make you sick

Provided he doesn’t cause the animal any pain, in the eyes of the law, that man has done nothing wrong. You can also do it in chilly Finland or on the beaches of Hawaii as well as in Japan and certain parts of Australia, which also do not prohibit sexual activities between humans and animals.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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Re: Was William Bradford and the brethren of Plymouth righteous OR sinful for executing a 17 year old boy for beastialit

Post by bibleman »

A little more from the early American state governments.
Note that our first President viewed “sodomy” or homosexual relations with “Abhorrence and Detestation.” He was not a spineless, wishy washy, panty waisted man like the current occupant of the White House, who claims his views have “evolved.” He was a man that recognized perverse behavior for what it was, perversion. He was not alone either. In all thirteen colonies, sodomy was treated as a criminal offense and eventually that grew to encompass each and every one of the fifty states. By the way, that fell under “equal treatment under the law.”

The law was based upon Leviticus 20:13:

“If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death.”

This verse was “adopted into legislation and enforced by the colonies of Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Connecticut.” Oh the irony that 2012’s GOP Mormon nominee for President Mitt Romney was the one to “legalize” homosexual “marriage” in Massachusetts. Here are just a few of the states and the punishments they executed for sodomy.

That the detestable and abominable vice of * [sodomy] . . . shall be from henceforth adjudged felony . . . and that every person being thereof convicted by verdict, confession, or outlawry [unlawful flight to avoid prosecution], shall be hanged by the neck until he or she shall be dead. NEW YORK

That if any man shall lie with mankind as he lieth with womankind, both of them have committed abomination; they both shall be put to death. CONNECTICUT

Sodomy . . . shall be punished by imprisonment at hard labour in the penitentiary during the natural life or lives of the person or persons convicted of th[is] detestable crime. GEORGIA

That if any man shall commit the crime against nature with a man or male child . . . every such offender, being duly convicted thereof in the Supreme Judicial Court, shall be punished by solitary imprisonment for such term not exceeding one year and by confinement afterwards to hard labor for such term not exceeding ten years. MAINE

That if any person or persons shall commit sodomy . . . he or they so offending or committing any of the said crimes within this province, their counsellors, aiders, comforters, and abettors, being convicted thereof as above said, shall suffer as felons. 13 [And] shall forfeit to the Commonwealth all and singular the lands and tenements, goods and chattels, whereof he or she was seized or possessed at the time . . . at the discretion of the court passing the sentence, not exceeding ten years, in the public gaol or house of correction of the county or city in which the offence shall have been committed and be kept at such labor. PENNSYLVANIA

[T]he detestable and abominable vice of * [sodomy] . . . be from henceforth adjudged felony . . . and that the offenders being hereof convicted by verdict, confession, or outlawry [unlawful flight to avoid prosecution], shall suffer such pains of death and losses and penalties of their goods. SOUTH CAROLINA

That if any man lieth with mankind as he lieth with a woman, they both shall suffer death. VERMONT

Ah, but some will say, “Thomas Jefferson would have never stood for this. He wanted liberty and equal rights for homosexuals to get married.” Not according to the record he didn’t. In Notes on the State of Virginia by Matthew Carey (1794) Jefferson indicated that in his home state of Virginia, “dismemberment” of the offensive organ was the penalty for sodomy.

https://thewashingtonstandard.com/how-t ... in-sodomy/


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Re: Was William Bradford and the brethren of Plymouth righteous OR sinful for executing a 17 year old boy for beastialit

Post by Grandfather »

If that is the case, I will say he followed the law. Now, can one abide by the law and still be sinful?



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Re: Was William Bradford and the brethren of Plymouth righteous OR sinful for executing a 17 year old boy for beastialit

Post by bibleman »

Grandfather wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:19 pm
If that is the case, I will say he followed the law. Now, can one abide by the law and still be sinful?
Yes if the law is un-biblical. (But not saying that it was)


God bless
Leon Bible

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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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Re: Was William Bradford and the brethren of Plymouth righteous OR sinful for executing a 17 year old boy for beastialit

Post by Grandfather »

bibleman wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:43 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:19 pm
If that is the case, I will say he followed the law. Now, can one abide by the law and still be sinful?
Yes if the law is un-biblical. (But not saying that it was)
Indeed...Mic 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?

From what you presented, I would have to ask, was mercy shown?



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Re: Was William Bradford and the brethren of Plymouth righteous OR sinful for executing a 17 year old boy for beastialit

Post by Hill Top »

bibleman wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:34 pm
In today's New Testament Christian age... Was William Bradford and the brethren of Plymouth righteous OR sinful for executing a 17 year old boy for beastiality?
William Bradford, Of Plymouth Plantation, Norton Anthology of American Literature, Third Edition, From Book II, Chapter XXXII, Anno Dom: 1642

[A HORRIBLE CASE OF BEASTIALITY]

And after the time of the writing of these things befell a very sad accident of the like foul nature in this government, this very year, which I shall now relate.

There was a youth whose name was Thomas Granger. He was servant to an honest man of Duxbury, being about 16 or 17 years of age. (His father and mother lived at the same time at Scituate.) He was this year detected of *, and indicted for the same, with a mare, a cow, two goats, five sheep, two calves and a turkey. Horrible it is to mention, but the truth of the history requires it.

He was first discovered by one that accidentally saw his lewd practice towards the mare. (I forbear particulars.) Being upon it examined and committed, in the end he not only confessed the fact with that beast at that time, but sundry times before and at several times with all the rest of the forenamed in his indictment. And this his free confession was not only in private to the magistrates (though at first he strived to deny it) but to sundry, both ministers and others; and afterwards, upon his indictment, to the whole Court and jury; and confirmed it at his execution. And whereas some of the sheep could not so well be known by his description of them, others with them were brought before him and he declared which were they and which were not.

And accordingly he was cast by the jury and condemned, and after executed about the 8th of September, 1642.

A very sad spectacle it was. For first the mare and then the cow and the rest of the lesser cattle were killed before his face, according to the law, Leviticus xx. 15 and then he himself was executed. The cattle were all cast into a great and large pit that was digged of purpose for them, and no use made of any part of them.
Sinful.
Where was the love we are to have for our brothers?
Where was an offer to let him repent of his sins?
Where was the forgiveness?



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Re: Was William Bradford and the brethren of Plymouth righteous OR sinful for executing a 17 year old boy for beastialit

Post by bibleman »

Grandfather wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:48 pm
bibleman wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:43 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:19 pm
If that is the case, I will say he followed the law. Now, can one abide by the law and still be sinful?
Yes if the law is un-biblical. (But not saying that it was)
Indeed...Mic 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?

From what you presented, I would have to ask, was mercy shown?
Yes mercy was shown to those that they young man was influencing to sin by his horrible actions.

But judgment was shown to the young man who committed these sins.


God bless
Leon Bible

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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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Re: Was William Bradford and the brethren of Plymouth righteous OR sinful for executing a 17 year old boy for beastialit

Post by bibleman »

Hill Top wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:37 pm
bibleman wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:34 pm
In today's New Testament Christian age... Was William Bradford and the brethren of Plymouth righteous OR sinful for executing a 17 year old boy for beastiality?
William Bradford, Of Plymouth Plantation, Norton Anthology of American Literature, Third Edition, From Book II, Chapter XXXII, Anno Dom: 1642

[A HORRIBLE CASE OF BEASTIALITY]

And after the time of the writing of these things befell a very sad accident of the like foul nature in this government, this very year, which I shall now relate.

There was a youth whose name was Thomas Granger. He was servant to an honest man of Duxbury, being about 16 or 17 years of age. (His father and mother lived at the same time at Scituate.) He was this year detected of *, and indicted for the same, with a mare, a cow, two goats, five sheep, two calves and a turkey. Horrible it is to mention, but the truth of the history requires it.

He was first discovered by one that accidentally saw his lewd practice towards the mare. (I forbear particulars.) Being upon it examined and committed, in the end he not only confessed the fact with that beast at that time, but sundry times before and at several times with all the rest of the forenamed in his indictment. And this his free confession was not only in private to the magistrates (though at first he strived to deny it) but to sundry, both ministers and others; and afterwards, upon his indictment, to the whole Court and jury; and confirmed it at his execution. And whereas some of the sheep could not so well be known by his description of them, others with them were brought before him and he declared which were they and which were not.

And accordingly he was cast by the jury and condemned, and after executed about the 8th of September, 1642.

A very sad spectacle it was. For first the mare and then the cow and the rest of the lesser cattle were killed before his face, according to the law, Leviticus xx. 15 and then he himself was executed. The cattle were all cast into a great and large pit that was digged of purpose for them, and no use made of any part of them.
Sinful.
Where was the love we are to have for our brothers?
Where was an offer to let him repent of his sins?
Where was the forgiveness?
It was love to the remaining brothers to get rid of the influencer of sin (the young man).

He had 17 years to repent.

we must confess and forsake sins... not just confess them.


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

Grandfather
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Re: Was William Bradford and the brethren of Plymouth righteous OR sinful for executing a 17 year old boy for beastialit

Post by Grandfather »

Again, he followed that particular law, but that does not mean he was righteous, or sinful. That decision is God’s to determine, because only God can faithful and righteously judge the condition of the heart. Looking over some of the laws, supposedly based on the scripture, with regards to the natives and blacks, I would venture to say if Bradford followed those laws as faithfully as he did with this young man, we would judge him as a sinner, without mercy for his treatment of other humans.

Righteousness or Sinfulness is not limited to a single act.



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