Dake Bible Discussion BoardUndeniable proof that Paul's writings were the Word of God!

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bibleman
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Re: Undeniable proof that Paul's writings were the Word of God!

Post by bibleman »

Grandfather wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:21 pm
bibleman wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:53 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:36 pm
macca wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:24 am
Those that doubt Paul's writings are the word of God have nothing to base their faith on.
No wonder the letter to the Hebrews is attacked so wickedly.
You are late to the party and missed the question. I don't know of anyone here denying that Paul's letters are considered as Scripture.

The original question is did Paul realize they were going to be scripture at the moment he wrote them.

Bibleman says undoubtedly, but. in his defense he has put himself it an awkward position. He, Bibleman used 2 passages, one in 1 Thes and the other in Gal.

What I have pointed out to him and what he has acknowledged, is that the same things said in those passages about how people received Paul's message can be made by those in Bibleman's congregation on Sunday. Therefore if those statements elevate Paul's letters to the level of scripture then the same statements made about Bibleman's preaching would do the same thing.

However, Bibleman will not acknowledge this logical sequence because in doing so, he realizes he defeats his own position.
WHAT? What are you smoking?

No I never have said that: "the same things said in those passages about how people received Paul's message can be made by those in Bibleman's congregation on Sunday. Therefore if those statements elevate Paul's letters to the level of scripture then the same statements made about Bibleman's preaching would do the same thing."

NEVER have I equated my words to that of Paul's.

Not one time.
Oh, so you only preach a word you get from man, it is devoid of power, and does not effectively work in the life of a believer.

I am sorry I misunderstood you.
What makes you think that???

Seems like you are just trying to be contrary!


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

Grandfather
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Re: Undeniable proof that Paul's writings were the Word of God!

Post by Grandfather »

bibleman wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:56 pm

YES Paul did consider his words Scripture at the time he wrote them. Here is why:

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

NO, I do NOT view any of my message as Scripture.

BUT the Scripture I quote or read... now of course that is Scripture.
You make the same claim about your preaching as Paul made about his letters.
You rejoice because your congregation receive the Word, not as a word from man, but from God. They receive it as truth and it works effectually within them.

Now, you do not want to claim the same status as Paul, and I understand that. I would not expect you to elevate yourself in that manner. But this also raises a question. Why do you think Paul, a Hebrew of Hebrews, a Pharisee, a student of Gamaliel, would seek to raise his letters to that level? Are you more humble about your position in Christ than he is?

I know you do not want to admit there is a reasonable possibility that at the moment Paul was writing, he did not see himself writing “scripture” but merely speaking from an authoritative position as one training in the scripture. (Just as you see yourself trained in the scriptures and speaking from an authoritative position on Sunday mornings.)

Citing the same passages over and over and over again, does not prove anything. It does not prove Paul thought he was writing scripture. They only “prove” the same thing your preaching does. A word from God with power to change.

Now, for those “lurkers” - please understand, I am NOT saying that Paul’s letters are not to be recognized as scripture. I am not saying that typical Christian scholars and theologians dispute Paul’s letters as scripture. That is a settled issued as far as I am concerned. The question is…. At the moment of their writing, did Paul consider them as such? Read Romans 16 - did Paul really think that would be canonized as scripture? The end of Eph 6? The final greeting in Colossians?

Some of you will say “Yes, even those.” But I believe that will be said because you do not want to say otherwise even though you don’t believe that Paul thought those passages would be elevated to scripture.

Also, neither side can PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt that Yes he did, or No he didn’t. The evidence may sway you one direction or another and that is okay. But only a fool would say it is undeniable. And from this point on I will not discuss it further with fools.



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Re: Undeniable proof that Paul's writings were the Word of God!

Post by bibleman »

Grandfather wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:04 pm
bibleman wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:56 pm

YES Paul did consider his words Scripture at the time he wrote them. Here is why:

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

NO, I do NOT view any of my message as Scripture.

BUT the Scripture I quote or read... now of course that is Scripture.
You make the same claim about your preaching as Paul made about his letters.
You rejoice because your congregation receive the Word, not as a word from man, but from God. They receive it as truth and it works effectually within them.

Now, you do not want to claim the same status as Paul, and I understand that. I would not expect you to elevate yourself in that manner. But this also raises a question. Why do you think Paul, a Hebrew of Hebrews, a Pharisee, a student of Gamaliel, would seek to raise his letters to that level? Are you more humble about your position in Christ than he is?

I know you do not want to admit there is a reasonable possibility that at the moment Paul was writing, he did not see himself writing “scripture” but merely speaking from an authoritative position as one training in the scripture. (Just as you see yourself trained in the scriptures and speaking from an authoritative position on Sunday mornings.)

Citing the same passages over and over and over again, does not prove anything. It does not prove Paul thought he was writing scripture. They only “prove” the same thing your preaching does. A word from God with power to change.

Now, for those “lurkers” - please understand, I am NOT saying that Paul’s letters are not to be recognized as scripture. I am not saying that typical Christian scholars and theologians dispute Paul’s letters as scripture. That is a settled issued as far as I am concerned. The question is…. At the moment of their writing, did Paul consider them as such? Read Romans 16 - did Paul really think that would be canonized as scripture? The end of Eph 6? The final greeting in Colossians?

Some of you will say “Yes, even those.” But I believe that will be said because you do not want to say otherwise even though you don’t believe that Paul thought those passages would be elevated to scripture.

Also, neither side can PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt that Yes he did, or No he didn’t. The evidence may sway you one direction or another and that is okay.
YES Paul did consider his words Scripture at the time he wrote them. Here is why:

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

Hill Top
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Re: Undeniable proof that Paul's writings were the Word of God!

Post by Hill Top »

bibleman wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:50 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:04 pm
bibleman wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:56 pm

YES Paul did consider his words Scripture at the time he wrote them. Here is why:

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

NO, I do NOT view any of my message as Scripture.

BUT the Scripture I quote or read... now of course that is Scripture.
You make the same claim about your preaching as Paul made about his letters.
You rejoice because your congregation receive the Word, not as a word from man, but from God. They receive it as truth and it works effectually within them.

Now, you do not want to claim the same status as Paul, and I understand that. I would not expect you to elevate yourself in that manner. But this also raises a question. Why do you think Paul, a Hebrew of Hebrews, a Pharisee, a student of Gamaliel, would seek to raise his letters to that level? Are you more humble about your position in Christ than he is?

I know you do not want to admit there is a reasonable possibility that at the moment Paul was writing, he did not see himself writing “scripture” but merely speaking from an authoritative position as one training in the scripture. (Just as you see yourself trained in the scriptures and speaking from an authoritative position on Sunday mornings.)

Citing the same passages over and over and over again, does not prove anything. It does not prove Paul thought he was writing scripture. They only “prove” the same thing your preaching does. A word from God with power to change.

Now, for those “lurkers” - please understand, I am NOT saying that Paul’s letters are not to be recognized as scripture. I am not saying that typical Christian scholars and theologians dispute Paul’s letters as scripture. That is a settled issued as far as I am concerned. The question is…. At the moment of their writing, did Paul consider them as such? Read Romans 16 - did Paul really think that would be canonized as scripture? The end of Eph 6? The final greeting in Colossians?

Some of you will say “Yes, even those.” But I believe that will be said because you do not want to say otherwise even though you don’t believe that Paul thought those passages would be elevated to scripture.

Also, neither side can PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt that Yes he did, or No he didn’t. The evidence may sway you one direction or another and that is okay.
YES Paul did consider his words Scripture at the time he wrote them. Here is why:

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
I personally, am glad that it does "woketh effectually".
Lack of its intended results would show the words were not of God.



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bibleman
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Re: Undeniable proof that Paul's writings were the Word of God!

Post by bibleman »

Hill Top wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:04 pm
bibleman wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:50 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:04 pm
bibleman wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:56 pm

YES Paul did consider his words Scripture at the time he wrote them. Here is why:

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

NO, I do NOT view any of my message as Scripture.

BUT the Scripture I quote or read... now of course that is Scripture.
You make the same claim about your preaching as Paul made about his letters.
You rejoice because your congregation receive the Word, not as a word from man, but from God. They receive it as truth and it works effectually within them.

Now, you do not want to claim the same status as Paul, and I understand that. I would not expect you to elevate yourself in that manner. But this also raises a question. Why do you think Paul, a Hebrew of Hebrews, a Pharisee, a student of Gamaliel, would seek to raise his letters to that level? Are you more humble about your position in Christ than he is?

I know you do not want to admit there is a reasonable possibility that at the moment Paul was writing, he did not see himself writing “scripture” but merely speaking from an authoritative position as one training in the scripture. (Just as you see yourself trained in the scriptures and speaking from an authoritative position on Sunday mornings.)

Citing the same passages over and over and over again, does not prove anything. It does not prove Paul thought he was writing scripture. They only “prove” the same thing your preaching does. A word from God with power to change.

Now, for those “lurkers” - please understand, I am NOT saying that Paul’s letters are not to be recognized as scripture. I am not saying that typical Christian scholars and theologians dispute Paul’s letters as scripture. That is a settled issued as far as I am concerned. The question is…. At the moment of their writing, did Paul consider them as such? Read Romans 16 - did Paul really think that would be canonized as scripture? The end of Eph 6? The final greeting in Colossians?

Some of you will say “Yes, even those.” But I believe that will be said because you do not want to say otherwise even though you don’t believe that Paul thought those passages would be elevated to scripture.

Also, neither side can PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt that Yes he did, or No he didn’t. The evidence may sway you one direction or another and that is okay.
YES Paul did consider his words Scripture at the time he wrote them. Here is why:

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
I personally, am glad that it does "woketh effectually".
Lack of its intended results would show the words were not of God.
Good point.


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

Hill Top
Repent and Be Baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ Because of the Remission of Sins
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: Undeniable proof that Paul's writings were the Word of God!

Post by Hill Top »

bibleman wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:48 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:04 pm
bibleman wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:50 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:04 pm
bibleman wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:56 pm

YES Paul did consider his words Scripture at the time he wrote them. Here is why:

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

NO, I do NOT view any of my message as Scripture.

BUT the Scripture I quote or read... now of course that is Scripture.
You make the same claim about your preaching as Paul made about his letters.
You rejoice because your congregation receive the Word, not as a word from man, but from God. They receive it as truth and it works effectually within them.

Now, you do not want to claim the same status as Paul, and I understand that. I would not expect you to elevate yourself in that manner. But this also raises a question. Why do you think Paul, a Hebrew of Hebrews, a Pharisee, a student of Gamaliel, would seek to raise his letters to that level? Are you more humble about your position in Christ than he is?

I know you do not want to admit there is a reasonable possibility that at the moment Paul was writing, he did not see himself writing “scripture” but merely speaking from an authoritative position as one training in the scripture. (Just as you see yourself trained in the scriptures and speaking from an authoritative position on Sunday mornings.)

Citing the same passages over and over and over again, does not prove anything. It does not prove Paul thought he was writing scripture. They only “prove” the same thing your preaching does. A word from God with power to change.

Now, for those “lurkers” - please understand, I am NOT saying that Paul’s letters are not to be recognized as scripture. I am not saying that typical Christian scholars and theologians dispute Paul’s letters as scripture. That is a settled issued as far as I am concerned. The question is…. At the moment of their writing, did Paul consider them as such? Read Romans 16 - did Paul really think that would be canonized as scripture? The end of Eph 6? The final greeting in Colossians?

Some of you will say “Yes, even those.” But I believe that will be said because you do not want to say otherwise even though you don’t believe that Paul thought those passages would be elevated to scripture.

Also, neither side can PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt that Yes he did, or No he didn’t. The evidence may sway you one direction or another and that is okay.
YES Paul did consider his words Scripture at the time he wrote them. Here is why:

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
I personally, am glad that it does "woketh effectually".
Lack of its intended results would show the words were not of God.
Good point.
I wonder what happened to my spelling?
"Woketh"???
Maybe my keyboard is a liberal?



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bibleman
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Re: Undeniable proof that Paul's writings were the Word of God!

Post by bibleman »

Hill Top wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:19 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:48 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:04 pm
bibleman wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:50 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:04 pm
bibleman wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:56 pm

YES Paul did consider his words Scripture at the time he wrote them. Here is why:

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

NO, I do NOT view any of my message as Scripture.

BUT the Scripture I quote or read... now of course that is Scripture.
You make the same claim about your preaching as Paul made about his letters.
You rejoice because your congregation receive the Word, not as a word from man, but from God. They receive it as truth and it works effectually within them.

Now, you do not want to claim the same status as Paul, and I understand that. I would not expect you to elevate yourself in that manner. But this also raises a question. Why do you think Paul, a Hebrew of Hebrews, a Pharisee, a student of Gamaliel, would seek to raise his letters to that level? Are you more humble about your position in Christ than he is?

I know you do not want to admit there is a reasonable possibility that at the moment Paul was writing, he did not see himself writing “scripture” but merely speaking from an authoritative position as one training in the scripture. (Just as you see yourself trained in the scriptures and speaking from an authoritative position on Sunday mornings.)

Citing the same passages over and over and over again, does not prove anything. It does not prove Paul thought he was writing scripture. They only “prove” the same thing your preaching does. A word from God with power to change.

Now, for those “lurkers” - please understand, I am NOT saying that Paul’s letters are not to be recognized as scripture. I am not saying that typical Christian scholars and theologians dispute Paul’s letters as scripture. That is a settled issued as far as I am concerned. The question is…. At the moment of their writing, did Paul consider them as such? Read Romans 16 - did Paul really think that would be canonized as scripture? The end of Eph 6? The final greeting in Colossians?

Some of you will say “Yes, even those.” But I believe that will be said because you do not want to say otherwise even though you don’t believe that Paul thought those passages would be elevated to scripture.

Also, neither side can PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt that Yes he did, or No he didn’t. The evidence may sway you one direction or another and that is okay.
YES Paul did consider his words Scripture at the time he wrote them. Here is why:

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
I personally, am glad that it does "woketh effectually".
Lack of its intended results would show the words were not of God.
Good point.
I wonder what happened to my spelling?
"Woketh"???
Maybe my keyboard is a liberal?
That was the first thing I noticed but I cut you some slack.


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

Hill Top
Repent and Be Baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ Because of the Remission of Sins
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: Undeniable proof that Paul's writings were the Word of God!

Post by Hill Top »

bibleman wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:39 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:19 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:48 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:04 pm
bibleman wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:50 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:04 pm
bibleman wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:56 pm

YES Paul did consider his words Scripture at the time he wrote them. Here is why:

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

NO, I do NOT view any of my message as Scripture.

BUT the Scripture I quote or read... now of course that is Scripture.
You make the same claim about your preaching as Paul made about his letters.
You rejoice because your congregation receive the Word, not as a word from man, but from God. They receive it as truth and it works effectually within them.

Now, you do not want to claim the same status as Paul, and I understand that. I would not expect you to elevate yourself in that manner. But this also raises a question. Why do you think Paul, a Hebrew of Hebrews, a Pharisee, a student of Gamaliel, would seek to raise his letters to that level? Are you more humble about your position in Christ than he is?

I know you do not want to admit there is a reasonable possibility that at the moment Paul was writing, he did not see himself writing “scripture” but merely speaking from an authoritative position as one training in the scripture. (Just as you see yourself trained in the scriptures and speaking from an authoritative position on Sunday mornings.)

Citing the same passages over and over and over again, does not prove anything. It does not prove Paul thought he was writing scripture. They only “prove” the same thing your preaching does. A word from God with power to change.

Now, for those “lurkers” - please understand, I am NOT saying that Paul’s letters are not to be recognized as scripture. I am not saying that typical Christian scholars and theologians dispute Paul’s letters as scripture. That is a settled issued as far as I am concerned. The question is…. At the moment of their writing, did Paul consider them as such? Read Romans 16 - did Paul really think that would be canonized as scripture? The end of Eph 6? The final greeting in Colossians?

Some of you will say “Yes, even those.” But I believe that will be said because you do not want to say otherwise even though you don’t believe that Paul thought those passages would be elevated to scripture.

Also, neither side can PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt that Yes he did, or No he didn’t. The evidence may sway you one direction or another and that is okay.
YES Paul did consider his words Scripture at the time he wrote them. Here is why:

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
I personally, am glad that it does "woketh effectually".
Lack of its intended results would show the words were not of God.
Good point.
I wonder what happened to my spelling?
"Woketh"???
Maybe my keyboard is a liberal?
That was the first thing I noticed but I cut you some slack.
Thank you.
I am usually very careful with my spelling and grammar.



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macca
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Re: Undeniable proof that Paul's writings were the Word of God!

Post by macca »

bibleman wrote:
Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:37 am
macca wrote:
Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:22 am
You are correct Pastor Leon.
What I (backslider) have learned over the last 35 years is that those who have the opposite belief have a great problem with what the Apostle Paul has written.
Why thank you Macca!

Yes many people have problems with the revelation God gave to Paul.

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

BUT as to YOU! You need to come back to God!
You will never be happy until you do!
Praying for YOU!

Thankyou Pastor for your prayers.

Hebrews. 4:2; for unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.



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