Dake Bible Discussion BoardEssentials of the Christian faith

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bibleman
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Re: Essentials of the Christian faith

Post by bibleman »

patrissimo wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 1:16 pm
When the husband man sends his son in the parable in Mt. 21, does the Son only become the Son after he arrives?
No.

What about your daughter... Was her husband her husband BEFORE they were married?

Seems like you are going to a lot of trouble making an argument based on language and how everyone understands it.

You could make much better arguments for your point of view in many other ways that would not require someone to misrepresent the human language.


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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

Grandfather
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Re: Essentials of the Christian faith

Post by Grandfather »

bibleman wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 2:28 pm
patrissimo wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 1:16 pm
When the husband man sends his son in the parable in Mt. 21, does the Son only become the Son after he arrives?
No.

What about your daughter... Was her husband her husband BEFORE they were married?

Seems like you are going to a lot of trouble making an argument based on language and how everyone understands it.

You could make much better arguments for your point of view in many other ways that would not require someone to misrepresent the human language.
Was the Father, the Father, before the birth of the Son?



patrissimo
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Re: Essentials of the Christian faith

Post by patrissimo »

I understand your point. But just because we sometimes speak according to the manner of your daughter example doesn't mean such was the author's intention when scripture speaks of the Father sending the Son. You would have to 1st assume Dake's 3 experimental estates doctrine prior to coming up with your daughter argument but it is precisely this assumption which is under question here. I have reviewed numerous usages of the words "sent" and "send" in the NT and so far haven't seen an example like your daughter argument. There are, however, examples such as the ones I just provided.


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Re: Essentials of the Christian faith

Post by bibleman »

patrissimo wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 4:06 pm
I understand your point. But just because we sometimes speak according to the manner of your daughter example doesn't mean such was the author's intention when scripture speaks of the Father sending the Son. You would have to 1st assume Dake's 3 experimental estates doctrine prior to coming up with your daughter argument but it is precisely this assumption which is under question here. I have reviewed numerous usages of the words "sent" and "send" in the NT and so far haven't seen an example like your daughter argument. There are, however, examples such as the ones I just provided.
Here is an example of what you asked for...

Matthew 26:25 Then Judas, who was betraying Him, answered and said, "Rabbi, is it I?" He said to him, "You have said it."

Notice, Judas is called one who is betraying Christ at the time of the Lord's Supper.

At the time that was happening... Matthew did NOT know Judas was betraying Christ. BUT later when Matthew wrote his account, well of course he knew Judas was a betrayer then.


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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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Re: Essentials of the Christian faith

Post by bibleman »

Grandfather wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 3:25 pm
bibleman wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 2:28 pm
patrissimo wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 1:16 pm
When the husband man sends his son in the parable in Mt. 21, does the Son only become the Son after he arrives?
No.

What about your daughter... Was her husband her husband BEFORE they were married?

Seems like you are going to a lot of trouble making an argument based on language and how everyone understands it.

You could make much better arguments for your point of view in many other ways that would not require someone to misrepresent the human language.
Was the Father, the Father, before the birth of the Son?
In speaking in terms of the Father of Jesus? NO God the Father was not the Father of Jesus until Jesus was born in Bethlehem over 2,000 years ago.

Now was God the Father the father of mankind? the father of creation? the father of salvation? and so many other things? YES.
To solve all these unanswerable questions of speculation, let us believe the simple statements of Scripture that the person we now know as the Son of God and Mary was not always God's Son and Mary's Son, that He was always God and a separate person along with the Father and the Holy Spirit, that He became man and the Son of both God and Mary over 2,000 years ago for the purpose of redemption, that it was in God's plan that one of the three persons of the Godhead should become man and the Son of the one who became the Father by the power of the Holy Ghost, and that it did not become a reality until it actually took place in Mary about 2,000 years ago.
Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 382.


God bless
Leon Bible

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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

patrissimo
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Re: Essentials of the Christian faith

Post by patrissimo »

Dake's version of Divine Paternity amounts to saying God is not a true Father but only an analogous one who can adopt but never begets after His own kind.


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Re: Essentials of the Christian faith

Post by bibleman »

patrissimo wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 7:14 pm
Dake's version of Divine Paternity amounts to saying God is not a true Father but only an analogous one who can adopt but never begets after His own kind.
Those are your views but clearly NOT Dake's.
Jesus is the only begotten Son of God who has all the qualities of deity...
Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 665.
With this in mind one can see that the soul and spirit faculties that were born in Jesus Christ by a divine Father
Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 372.
So clearly Dake teaches that Jesus was begotten by the Father and not adopted as you incorrectly stated.


God bless
Leon Bible

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http://www.dakebible.com
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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

patrissimo
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Re: Essentials of the Christian faith

Post by patrissimo »

When Dake says that "the soul and spirit faculties that were born in Jesus Christ by a Divine Father," doesn't he mean that the Father gave Christ such faculties at His Nativity? (i.e. when He entered the world as a man.)


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Re: Essentials of the Christian faith

Post by bibleman »

patrissimo wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 8:37 pm
When Dake says that "the soul and spirit faculties that were born in Jesus Christ by a Divine Father," doesn't he mean that the Father gave Christ such faculties at His Nativity? (i.e. when He entered the world as a man.)
Nope not gave... but BORN in Jesus Christ - HOW? ..."by a divine Father."

That is God "fathered" Jesus as the ONLY "begotten" ...thus Jesus was born of God.

How did you get your soul and spirit? by a human Father.

But no matter how you slice it no where does Dake teach Jesus was "adopted" as you wrongly said.


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Leon Bible

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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

patrissimo
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Re: Essentials of the Christian faith

Post by patrissimo »

Is Dake traducian?


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