Dake Bible Discussion BoardTwo questions about Lucifer his creation and his fall

General Discussion Forum devoted to the study of God's Word in Honor of Finis J. Dake.
Post Reply
Grandfather
Pray for Them which Despitefully Persecute You
Posts: 484
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:51 pm

Re: Two questions about Lucifer his creation and his fall

Post by Grandfather »

bibleman wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:08 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:40 pm
bibleman wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:23 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:18 pm
bibleman wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:27 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:25 pm
bibleman wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:05 pm


No possibility at all! God did not speak a "mass" and then form the heavens and the earth out of that mass!

What verse says He did that?
you’re the one saying he is using recycled material. where does it SAY that, not imply, but simply state that as fact?
Show me the quote that says God used recycled material to create the Earth?
I never said he did, You are the one making the claim. that the Earth we reside on was recycled.
Show me the quote that I said God used recycled material to create the Earth?
Do you not believe there was a world that existed prior to Gen 1:2?
Let's get this question answered first, please sir.

Show me the quote that I said God used recycled material to create the Earth?
So you don't believe this world became formless and was recreated. That's interesting coming from youvb



User avatar
bibleman
Administrator
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 1998 5:23 pm
Location: South Carolina
Contact:

Re: Two questions about Lucifer his creation and his fall

Post by bibleman »

Grandfather wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:13 pm
bibleman wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:08 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:40 pm
bibleman wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:23 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:18 pm
bibleman wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:27 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:25 pm


you’re the one saying he is using recycled material. where does it SAY that, not imply, but simply state that as fact?
Show me the quote that says God used recycled material to create the Earth?
I never said he did, You are the one making the claim. that the Earth we reside on was recycled.
Show me the quote that I said God used recycled material to create the Earth?
Do you not believe there was a world that existed prior to Gen 1:2?
Let's get this question answered first, please sir.

Show me the quote that I said God used recycled material to create the Earth?
So you don't believe this world became formless and was recreated. That's interesting coming from youvb
So you throw out statements from your imagination and then argue against them... and when called upon to give the quotes you are unable because it was only your imagination - running away with you!


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

User avatar
Ironman
Fast the Chosen Fast of God... Then Shalt Thou Be Like a Spring of Water, Whose Waters Fail Not
Posts: 1275
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:29 pm

Re: Two questions about Lucifer his creation and his fall

Post by Ironman »

Grandfather wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:13 pm
bibleman wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:08 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:40 pm
bibleman wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:23 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:18 pm
bibleman wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:27 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:25 pm


you’re the one saying he is using recycled material. where does it SAY that, not imply, but simply state that as fact?
Show me the quote that says God used recycled material to create the Earth?
I never said he did, You are the one making the claim. that the Earth we reside on was recycled.
Show me the quote that I said God used recycled material to create the Earth?
Do you not believe there was a world that existed prior to Gen 1:2?
Let's get this question answered first, please sir.

Show me the quote that I said God used recycled material to create the Earth?
So you don't believe this world became formless and was recreated. That's interesting coming from youvb
Grandfather. I' believe you are or are becoming a modern day Pharisee. During the time of Jesus, no one knew more Scripture than the Pharisees. They studied the Scriptures relentlessly.

Modern-day Pharisees do the same. They, like you do, turn around and use their knowledge to convince others where and why they are wrong in their understanding of the Scriptures.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

Grandfather
Pray for Them which Despitefully Persecute You
Posts: 484
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:51 pm

Re: Two questions about Lucifer his creation and his fall

Post by Grandfather »

Ironman wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:43 pm
Grandfather. I' believe you are or are becoming a modern day Pharisee. During the time of Jesus, no one knew more Scripture than the Pharisees. They studied the Scriptures relentlessly.

Modern-day Pharisees do the same. They, like you do, turn around and use their knowledge to convince others where and why they are wrong in their understanding of the Scriptures.
So, you cannot present clear scriptures to prove I am wrong. Perhaps it is you that are the modern day Pharisee, turning away from the truth.



User avatar
Ironman
Fast the Chosen Fast of God... Then Shalt Thou Be Like a Spring of Water, Whose Waters Fail Not
Posts: 1275
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:29 pm

Re: Two questions about Lucifer his creation and his fall

Post by Ironman »

Grandfather wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:20 pm
Ironman wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:43 pm
Grandfather. I' believe you are or are becoming a modern day Pharisee. During the time of Jesus, no one knew more Scripture than the Pharisees. They studied the Scriptures relentlessly.

Modern-day Pharisees do the same. They, like you do, turn around and use their knowledge to convince others where and why they are wrong in their understanding of the Scriptures.
So, you cannot present clear scriptures to prove I am wrong. Perhaps it is you that are the modern day Pharisee, turning away from the truth.
Pre-Adamite Eden, Ezek. 28: 12-13;
No earthly king of Tyre was ever in Eden. as was this angel, nor does this Eden refer to Adams Eden although Lucifer was in it also (Gen. 3:2; 2 Cor 11:3).
The Eden here was a garden in the earth when he ruled in perfection and sinlessness before he fell (v. 13).



The earthly king of Tyre was Ithobalus 11, The supernatural king of Tyre was Lucifer, who is mostly referred to in this prophecy (V. 11-19), as proved by the many statements that could not possibly apply to any earthly man.



No earthly king of Tyre was ever in Eden, as was this angel, nor does this Eden refer to Adam's Eden although Lucifer was in it also (Gen. 3; 2 Cor. 11:3). The Eden here was a garden in the earth when he ruled in perfection and sinlessness before he fell (V. 13).



Ezek. 28:14-16, Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

V. 15, Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

V. 16, By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.



No angel was in any holy mountain of God when an earthly king of Tyre ruled, so the reference is to the eternal past when the cherub himself had a literal throne on earth on the holy mountain of God.

Here we have an insight into the position of Lucifer before his fall, and a revelation regarding the cause of his fall (V. 13-17). The term mountain of God occurs seven times (V. 14, 16; Ex. 3:1; 4:27; 18:5; 24:13; 1 Kings 19:8). The mountain of the Lord occurs six times(Gen. 22:14; Num. 10:33; Isa. 2:3; 30:29: Mic. 4:2; Zech. 8:3). All these Scriptures do not refer to the same mountain in the same place, as can be seen from the various passages.



The time of his iniquity was when he rebelled against God to exalt his throne and kingdom from earth to heaven (Isa. 14:12-14). The time of his corruption and sin was surely before the days of Adam for Lucifer was already a fallen creature at the time he came into Adams Eden (Gen. 2; 2 Cor. 11:3).

Heb. rekullah, traffic. It refers to Lucifers walking up and down slandering God to his own subjects on earth, and to God's subjects among the angels, until he had all his earthly subjects rebelling against the creator, as well as over one-third of the angels (Isa. 14:12-14; 2 Pet. 3:4-6; Rev. 12:4). Whatever it was, it is clear here that the behaviour resulted in violence; and Lucifer sinned and broke with God. This could never refer to an earthly king, as the ruler of Tyre, carrying on ordinary trade with the nations. It definitely concerns the traffic of a cherub, not a man. All trade between nations in the entire world could not cause an angel to sin as here in V.16.



Lucifer has already been humbled before kings for he was cast down to the ground before all the nations over whom he ruled previous to the time of Adam (Isa.14:12-14). He will again be brought down in the deepest humiliation before the kings of the earth whom he will lead with Antichrist in the battle of Armageddon (Rev. 12:7-12; 16:13-16; 19:11-21; 30:1-3). Then again at the end of the Millennium he will be brought down to Hell before all the kings and others who will spend eternity with him in the lake of FIRE (Matt. 25:41; Rev. 20:10).


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

Grandfather
Pray for Them which Despitefully Persecute You
Posts: 484
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:51 pm

Re: Two questions about Lucifer his creation and his fall

Post by Grandfather »

Ironman wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:18 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:20 pm
Ironman wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:43 pm
Grandfather. I' believe you are or are becoming a modern day Pharisee. During the time of Jesus, no one knew more Scripture than the Pharisees. They studied the Scriptures relentlessly.

Modern-day Pharisees do the same. They, like you do, turn around and use their knowledge to convince others where and why they are wrong in their understanding of the Scriptures.
So, you cannot present clear scriptures to prove I am wrong. Perhaps it is you that are the modern day Pharisee, turning away from the truth.
Pre-Adamite Eden, Ezek. 28: 12-13;
No earthly king of Tyre was ever in Eden. as was this angel, nor does this Eden refer to Adams Eden although Lucifer was in it also (Gen. 3:2; 2 Cor 11:3).
The Eden here was a garden in the earth when he ruled in perfection and sinlessness before he fell (v. 13).



The earthly king of Tyre was Ithobalus 11, The supernatural king of Tyre was Lucifer, who is mostly referred to in this prophecy (V. 11-19), as proved by the many statements that could not possibly apply to any earthly man.



No earthly king of Tyre was ever in Eden, as was this angel, nor does this Eden refer to Adam's Eden although Lucifer was in it also (Gen. 3; 2 Cor. 11:3). The Eden here was a garden in the earth when he ruled in perfection and sinlessness before he fell (V. 13).



Ezek. 28:14-16, Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

V. 15, Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

V. 16, By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.



No angel was in any holy mountain of God when an earthly king of Tyre ruled, so the reference is to the eternal past when the cherub himself had a literal throne on earth on the holy mountain of God.

Here we have an insight into the position of Lucifer before his fall, and a revelation regarding the cause of his fall (V. 13-17). The term mountain of God occurs seven times (V. 14, 16; Ex. 3:1; 4:27; 18:5; 24:13; 1 Kings 19:8). The mountain of the Lord occurs six times(Gen. 22:14; Num. 10:33; Isa. 2:3; 30:29: Mic. 4:2; Zech. 8:3). All these Scriptures do not refer to the same mountain in the same place, as can be seen from the various passages.



The time of his iniquity was when he rebelled against God to exalt his throne and kingdom from earth to heaven (Isa. 14:12-14). The time of his corruption and sin was surely before the days of Adam for Lucifer was already a fallen creature at the time he came into Adams Eden (Gen. 2; 2 Cor. 11:3).

Heb. rekullah, traffic. It refers to Lucifers walking up and down slandering God to his own subjects on earth, and to God's subjects among the angels, until he had all his earthly subjects rebelling against the creator, as well as over one-third of the angels (Isa. 14:12-14; 2 Pet. 3:4-6; Rev. 12:4). Whatever it was, it is clear here that the behaviour resulted in violence; and Lucifer sinned and broke with God. This could never refer to an earthly king, as the ruler of Tyre, carrying on ordinary trade with the nations. It definitely concerns the traffic of a cherub, not a man. All trade between nations in the entire world could not cause an angel to sin as here in V.16.



Lucifer has already been humbled before kings for he was cast down to the ground before all the nations over whom he ruled previous to the time of Adam (Isa.14:12-14). He will again be brought down in the deepest humiliation before the kings of the earth whom he will lead with Antichrist in the battle of Armageddon (Rev. 12:7-12; 16:13-16; 19:11-21; 30:1-3). Then again at the end of the Millennium he will be brought down to Hell before all the kings and others who will spend eternity with him in the lake of FIRE (Matt. 25:41; Rev. 20:10).
I agree these passages are referencing the fall of Satan/Lucifer, but I do not see anything that mandates this fall occurs before Gensis 1.



Grandfather
Pray for Them which Despitefully Persecute You
Posts: 484
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:51 pm

Re: Two questions about Lucifer his creation and his fall

Post by Grandfather »

Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.3 And God said, “Let there be....

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

A simple statement of fact, but there is nothing here to suggest the process with which God created the heavens and the earth.

The earth was without form and void.

A simple factual statement of the condition of the earth, but nothing to suggest how it arrived here.
1) Was the "without form and void" a resulting leftover of a previous world?
2) Was the "without form and void" the necessary result of God's creating desire?

From this point forward we see the process that God undertook to make the world. Some hold that he created, others hold that he made from the materials that were present. What is difficult to debate is that life came because of His word.



User avatar
bibleman
Administrator
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 1998 5:23 pm
Location: South Carolina
Contact:

Re: Two questions about Lucifer his creation and his fall

Post by bibleman »

Grandfather wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:58 pm
Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.3 And God said, “Let there be....

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

A simple statement of fact, but there is nothing here to suggest the process with which God created the heavens and the earth.

The earth was without form and void.

A simple factual statement of the condition of the earth, but nothing to suggest how it arrived here.
1) Was the "without form and void" a resulting leftover of a previous world?
2) Was the "without form and void" the necessary result of God's creating desire?

From this point forward we see the process that God undertook to make the world. Some hold that he created, others hold that he made from the materials that were present. What is difficult to debate is that life came because of His word.
You said: "From this point forward we see the process that God undertook to make the world. Some hold that he created, others hold that he made from the materials that were present. What is difficult to debate is that life came because of His word."

Just what did he CREATE "from this point forward" ???


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

User avatar
Ironman
Fast the Chosen Fast of God... Then Shalt Thou Be Like a Spring of Water, Whose Waters Fail Not
Posts: 1275
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:29 pm

Re: Two questions about Lucifer his creation and his fall

Post by Ironman »

Grandfather wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:58 pm
Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.3 And God said, “Let there be....

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

A simple statement of fact, but there is nothing here to suggest the process with which God created the heavens and the earth.

The earth was without form and void.

A simple factual statement of the condition of the earth, but nothing to suggest how it arrived here.
1) Was the "without form and void" a resulting leftover of a previous world?
2) Was the "without form and void" the necessary result of God's creating desire?

From this point forward we see the process that God undertook to make the world. Some hold that he created, others hold that he made from the materials that were present. What is difficult to debate is that life came because of His word.
Grandfather. God destroyed the Earth in His anger because of Lucifer's rebellion. God turned it upside down and flooded it.

Read these Scriptures with an open and honest heart, asking the Holy Spirit for guidance and you will see there was a kingdom here on the Earth ruled by Lucifer and long before Adam and Eve.

There were two great floods on the Earth, 1. we shall call Lucifer's flood brought upon the Earth because of Lucifer's rebellion, and 2. Noah's flood caused by the rebellion of man. Many Scriptures show there was a great difference between them, all we need do is read every one and believe what we read.

The first where God destroyed His original creation because of Lucifer's rebellion, and the second, Noah's flood because of mans rebellion.
Lucifer's flood, everything was destroyed, all life, no light, the earth made empty and void.

Noah's flood, all life was not destroyed. Noah, his wife, his sons and their wives were left alive, plus all animals and the sun and moon was not prevented from giving light.

Here are all the Scriptures proving this occurred, read them for yourself then believe them or not??

Noah's flood which I will post as . 'N.F.' Lucifer's flood, L.F.

L.F. Earth made waste (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Earth not made waste (Gen. 8:11-12, 22 ; Heb. 11:7 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. Earth made empty (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23).
N.F. Earth not made empty (Gen. 6:18-22 ; 8:16).

L.F. Earth made totally dark (Gen. 1:2-5 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Not made totally dark (Gen. 8:6-22)

L.F. No light from heaven (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Light from heaven (Gen. 8:6-22).

L.F. No day and night (Gen. 1:2-5).
N.F. Day and night (Gen. 8:1-22).

L.F. All vegetation destroyed Gen. 1:2 ; 2:5-6 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Vegetation not destroyed (Gen. 8:11, 21 ; 9:3, 20).

L.F. No continued abating of the waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Continued abating of the waters from the earth by evaporation (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. Waters taken off the earth in one day (Gen. 1:10).
N.F. Months of waters abating off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. God supernaturally takes waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Natural work of evaporation of the waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. No rebuke or miraculous work in fled away (Gen. 1:6-12 ; Ps. 104:7).
N.F. No rebuke or miraculous work is taking waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. The waters on earth in Gen. 1:2, hasted away when rebuked (Gen. 1:6-2 ; Ps. 104:9).
N.F. The bounds already eternally set for waters in Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. All fish were totally destroyed in flood of Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. No fish were destroyed of created again after Noah's flood (Gen. 1:20-23 ; 6:18-22).

L.F. No Fowls left on the earth after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Fowls were left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:7-17).

L.F. No animals left after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Some of all animals kept alive (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:17 ; 9:2-4, 10-16).

L.F. No man left on earth in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Eight men and women left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:18 ; 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No social system left at all in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. A social system left after Noah's flood (Gen. 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No ark made to save men in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. An ark made to save men and animals alive (Gen. 6:8-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16 ; Heb. 11:7).

L.F. Cause: fall of Lucifer, now Satan (Isa. 14:12-14; Jer. 4:23-26; Ezek. 28:11-17 ; Luke 10:18).
N.F. Cause: wickedness of men (Gen. 6:5-13) ; and fallen angels (Gen. 6:1-4; Jude 6-7 ; 2 Pet. 2:4).

L.F. Result: became necessary to make new life on earth (Gen. 1:3-2 : 25 ; Isa. 45:18 ; Eph. 3:11).
N.F. Results: no new creation made, for all men and animals were not destroyed (Gen. 6:18-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16).

The original creations of God include the heavens and the Earth and all things therein as first brought into being. This period is summed up in Gen. 1:1. thus: "In the beginning God created the heaven [Hebrew, heavens] and the earth." This refers to the dateless past, and takes in only a part of the creative ages, that is, from the beginning of creation until the chaotic period of Gen. 1:2 when the Earth and its first inhabitants were destroyed by the first flood. Notice during Noah's flood not all inhabitants , vegetation, animals, day, night were destroyed.

There are many other passages in Scripture that refer to that period (Job. 38; Ps. 8:3-8; 19:1-6; Prov. 8:22-31; John 1:3,10; Acts 17:24-26; Col. 1:15-18; Heb. 1:1-12; 11:3; Rev. 4:11).

Rev. 4:11).

In Scripture, all instances of obscuring the sun and bringing darkness are the result of judgment, not creation-which is also true of the two universal floods (Genesis 6:8-8:22; Exodus 10:21-23; Isaiah 5:30; Jeremiah 4:23-26).

All predictions of future darkness depict judgment (Matthew 8:12; Matthew 24:29-31; Rev. 6:12-17; Rev. 8:12; Rev. 9:2; Rev. 16:10; Isaiah 13:10; Joel 2:30-3:16; Amos 5:18-20).

Could we say that Genesis 1:2, the only place in Scripture where darkness and a universal flood are not an act of judgment? If it isn't an option, then Genesis 1:2 proves that there was a pre-Adamite world destroyed by darkness and flood.

No one questions that Noah's flood was an act of judgment, or doubts the existence of free moral agents before the flood actually came. Why then doubt the existence of a pre-Adamite world which was destroyed by the darkness and flood of Genesis 1:2?

Note the following facts these passages proves of Satan:

Isiah 14:12-16

1. That his name is Lucifer.
2. That he was a son of the morning, and therefore, no earthly
man.
3. That he fell from Heaven. This could never be spoken of a man.
Satan is the only person in all Scripture who is spoken of as
falling from Heaven (Luke 10:18).
4. That he was cut down to the ground in his fall.
5. That he had weakened nations on Earth.
6. That he was exalted in his heart.
7. That he invaded Heaven, where God rules.
8. That he was a king, for he had a throne and subjects over whom
he ruled.
9. That he wanted to exalt his kingdom above the clouds, stars,
and into Heaven itself to dethrone God.
10. That he wanted to be worshipped in the congregation (Ps.72:1 ; 82:1; Isa. 6:1).
11. That he led a rebellion against God but was defeated.
12. That his kingdom was on Earth, or he never could have tried
to ascend above the clouds, stars, and into Heaven. When a
kingdom is located under the clouds it has to be on the Earth,
for one can stand on certain parts of the Earth and still be
above clouds.
13. That the ground, clouds, stars, and Heaven were already
created.
14. That it had to be before Adam, for this was not the position
of Lucifer when he was in Adam's Eden. Adam had dominion at that
time. He had no kingdom on Earth at the time of Adam and has not
had since in the sense of a visible, personal rule on Earth. He
has only ruled through others since Adam's day; so this must
refer to a time before Adam.
15. That he was not in Heaven when he rebelled, else he could
not have desired to ascend into Heaven. He was under the stars,
or he could not have desired to be exalted above the stars. He
was under the clouds, or he could not have desired to ascend
above them.
16. That God's throne is located in the north part of the
universe (Ps. 75:6-7).

Thus, these passages proves the location of Satan's original
kingdom and the time of his fall. It was located on Earth, and
his fall was before Adam. In Col.1:15-18 we read of Christ
creating thrones, dominions, principalities, and powers in Heaven
and on Earth. They were located somewhere in the heavens and on
the Earth. Lucifer was given a kingdom here on Earth, as proved
by the passages cited above. His own subjects were earthly
creatures of various kinds which were all destroyed when the
flood of Gen.1:2 came upon the Earth. God created the Earth to be
inhabited by earthly creatures (Is.45:18). They are called
"nations" in the above passage....
Thus Isaiah teaches that the Earth was inhabited before Adam and
was ruled by Lucifer, whose kingdom was overthrown when he
rebelled.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

Grandfather
Pray for Them which Despitefully Persecute You
Posts: 484
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:51 pm

Re: Two questions about Lucifer his creation and his fall

Post by Grandfather »

bibleman wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:57 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:58 pm
Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.3 And God said, “Let there be....

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

A simple statement of fact, but there is nothing here to suggest the process with which God created the heavens and the earth.

The earth was without form and void.

A simple factual statement of the condition of the earth, but nothing to suggest how it arrived here.
1) Was the "without form and void" a resulting leftover of a previous world?
2) Was the "without form and void" the necessary result of God's creating desire?

From this point forward we see the process that God undertook to make the world. Some hold that he created, others hold that he made from the materials that were present. What is difficult to debate is that life came because of His word.
You said: "From this point forward we see the process that God undertook to make the world. Some hold that he created, others hold that he made from the materials that were present. What is difficult to debate is that life came because of His word."

Just what did he CREATE "from this point forward" ???
I’m not clear on what you are asking. Perhaps you could explain the difference between “create” and “made” to help me better understand.



Post Reply