Dake Bible Discussion BoardCreation of the universe beyond our solar system is not what Genesis 1 is covering.

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bibleman
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Re: Creation of the universe beyond our solar system is not what Genesis 1 is covering.

Post by bibleman »

Hill Top wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:43 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:41 am
Hill Top wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:49 pm
Verse one says He did it, and the next verses show how He did it.
Verse 1 tells us he created something! Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Verse 2 we find the Earth that God had created "without form" Heb. (tōhû) ! Genesis 1:2 The earth was without form (tōhû), and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep....
Isaiah tells us God did NOT create the Earth in vain! (tōhû) Isaiah 45:18 For thus says the LORD, Who created the heavens, Who is God, Who formed the earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did not create it in vain, Who formed it to be inhabited:
So something must have happened the Earth that God created that needed to now be restored.
That is why Genesis 1:3 and on thru the chapter tells of the restoration of the Earth NOT the creation of the Earth - (that happened in verse 1)
If you will study just a little... it is very easy to understand.
Why did you stop at verse 2 before citing Isaiah?
God created all things from nothing.
Verse 2 starts the history of the process.
You are getting your beliefs from classic tradition NOT from the Bible text.


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

Grandfather
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Re: Creation of the universe beyond our solar system is not what Genesis 1 is covering.

Post by Grandfather »

bibleman wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:32 pm
God did not create the Heavens and Earth in 6 days - He created them BEFORE the 6 days, see verse 1.
For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them. Exo 20:11



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Re: Creation of the universe beyond our solar system is not what Genesis 1 is covering.

Post by Ironman »

Grandfather wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:55 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:32 pm
God did not create the Heavens and Earth in 6 days - He created them BEFORE the 6 days, see verse 1.
For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them. Exo 20:11
Check this out grandfather. From F.J Dake God's plan for man book.

God created a perfect Earth, then destroyed it and everything therein, because of sin.\ and rebellion. Moses’ teaching on the overthrow of the Pre-Adamite world.

In Gen 1:2 we have the fact that the Earth was in existence before the Spirit of God began to move, (brood) upon the face of the waters which covered the Earth. The conjunction “and” is used to connect about 200 separate acts of God in Gen. 1 and 2. These acts are all equally independent and important. Verse 2 is as independent of verse 1 as are all other separate acts of God in these two chapters. In verse 1 we have the original creation of the heavens and the Earth, and in verse 2, we have the original perfect Earth made chaos and flooded with water which destroyed all lifeon the Earth.

The word “was” in verse 2 is from the Hebrew bayah, which is a verb to become, not the verb to be. It is translated became 67 times (Gen. 2:7; 19:26; 20:12; 24:67; Ex. 4:3-4; Num. 12:10; ect.); becamest (1 Chron. 17:22; Ezek. 16:8) ; came and came to pass 505 times (Gen. 4:3; 6:1, 4; 11:2, 5; etc.) become 66 times (Gen. 3:22; 18:18; 48:19; etc.) come (and come to pass 131 times (Gen. 4:14; 6:13; 18-20; 27:40 etc.); and many times be in the sense of become (Gen. 1:3, 6, 9, 14: 3:5; etc.).
The phrase without form is from the Hebrew tohu, which means waste, desolation, or confusion. It is translated wast (Deut. 32:10); without form (Gen.1:2, Jer.4:23); vain (Isa. 45:18; 1 Sam. 12:21); confusion Isa. 24:10; 34:11; 41:29); empty (Job 26:7); vanity (Isa. 40:17, 23; 44:9; 59:4); nothing (Job. 6:18; Isa. 40:17); and wilderness (Job 12:24; Ps. 107:40).

It can be seen from these passages what the word really means and what the condition of the Earth was in Gen. 1:2. God did not originally create the Earth in such a waste and ruined state. It is definitely stated in Isa. 45:18 that God did not create the Earth tohu (vain, or desolate), yet in Gen 1:2 the Earth was tohu. If the Earth was not originally created desolate, then it must have been created, inhabited, and later became desolate. Even the English verb “was” proves that it had to become desolate before it could be desolate.
The Hebrew word for void is bohu, which means empty, ruin or void. It is translated void (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23) and emptiness (Isa. 34:11). The Hebrew phrase tohu va bohu (wast and ruin, or desolate and empty) describes the chaotic conditions of the Earth since “the beginning” and before the six days of the reconstruction of Gen. 1:3-2:25. God did not create the Earth a ruin or a wast. It became so because of sin.

We can read Gen. 1:1-2 literally thus:
“In the beginning [by periods, ages] God created the heavens and the Earth. And the Earth became waste and ruin [desolate and empty]; and darkness was upon the face of the waters.” In these verses we have the whole span of the creative ages taking in all the original creation of the heavens and the Earth and all things therein to the six days of restoration of the Earth to a habitable state. The original creations include the sun, moon, and stars.

In these two verses alone we have the facts that in the dateless past God created the heavens, including the sun, moon, and stars, and then the Earth; that the heavens, were created before the Earth; the waters; and that the darkness were all created before the spirit began to brood over the waters; and that these things were already in existence before the first of the six days, proving that they were not created in any one of those days.

How long the Earth was a waste and a ruin or desolate and empty since its original habitation is not known. How long it was in existence and inhabited before it became desolate and empty is not known, but why and when it was cursed and became desolate and empty is known and clearly revealed in Scripture.
In Scripture all cases of obscuring the sun and bringing consequent darkness, and all cases of floods are a result of Judgment and never of an acts of creation, unless it be Gen. 1:2; and we have no authority on which to believe that this is an exception. Why could not Gen. 1:2 be a result of a curse, as is clear of all other floods and darkness on the Earth, as revealed in Gen. 6-8; Ex. 10:21-23; Isa. 5:30; 13:10; Jer. 4:23-26; Amos 5:18-20; Zeph. 1:15; Joel 2:30-3: 16; Matt. 8:12; 9:2; 16:10.

The fact that Moses by inspiration said that God told Adam, to multiply and replenish the Earth proves that there was a social system on the Earth before Adam, for he could not replenish something that had been plenished before. Some argue that the Hebrew word for replenish means fill and not refill, but this proves nothing. An examination of all the places where the word replenish is used disproves this. Suppose we make the word replenish mean plenish in Gen. 9:1; Isa. 2:6; 23:2; Jer. 31:25; Ezek. 26:2; 27:25, and note the results. Where the Hebrew word mala is translated fill, it does not mean that the thing referred to had never been filled before. For example, when Joseph commanded his bretheren to “fill their sacks,” does this mean that those sack had never been filled before? They had no doubt been filled many times. See Gen. 42:25; 44:1; 1 Kings 18:33; Hag. 2:7 etc. To say, “Fill that glass with water” does not prove that ithad never been filled before, but to say, “Refill that glass with water” proves that it had been filled before. When God said to Noah, “be fruitfull and multiply, and replenish the earth” Gen. 9:1, it is clear that the Earth had been plenished before, so why not believe that God meant the same thing when He said it to Adam? The same Hebrew statement is found in both passages (Gen. 1;28; 9:1),and it is translated exactly the same in English, so would it be wrong to believe that it means the same thing? If the Earth had been plenished before Adam, then it was overthrown by judgment before the six days, as is shown in Gen.1;2.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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Re: Creation of the universe beyond our solar system is not what Genesis 1 is covering.

Post by bibleman »

Grandfather wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:55 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:32 pm
God did not create the Heavens and Earth in 6 days - He created them BEFORE the 6 days, see verse 1.
For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them. Exo 20:11
Hebrew word for made NOT create.


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

Hill Top
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Re: Creation of the universe beyond our solar system is not what Genesis 1 is covering.

Post by Hill Top »

bibleman wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:56 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:43 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:41 am
Hill Top wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:49 pm
Verse one says He did it, and the next verses show how He did it.
Verse 1 tells us he created something! Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Verse 2 we find the Earth that God had created "without form" Heb. (tōhû) ! Genesis 1:2 The earth was without form (tōhû), and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep....
Isaiah tells us God did NOT create the Earth in vain! (tōhû) Isaiah 45:18 For thus says the LORD, Who created the heavens, Who is God, Who formed the earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did not create it in vain, Who formed it to be inhabited:
So something must have happened the Earth that God created that needed to now be restored.
That is why Genesis 1:3 and on thru the chapter tells of the restoration of the Earth NOT the creation of the Earth - (that happened in verse 1)
If you will study just a little... it is very easy to understand.
Why did you stop at verse 2 before citing Isaiah?
God created all things from nothing.
Verse 2 starts the history of the process.
You are getting your beliefs from classic tradition NOT from the Bible text.
I believe what has been written.



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Re: Creation of the universe beyond our solar system is not what Genesis 1 is covering.

Post by bibleman »

Hill Top wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:38 pm
bibleman wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:56 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:43 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:41 am
Hill Top wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:49 pm
Verse one says He did it, and the next verses show how He did it.
Verse 1 tells us he created something! Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Verse 2 we find the Earth that God had created "without form" Heb. (tōhû) ! Genesis 1:2 The earth was without form (tōhû), and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep....
Isaiah tells us God did NOT create the Earth in vain! (tōhû) Isaiah 45:18 For thus says the LORD, Who created the heavens, Who is God, Who formed the earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did not create it in vain, Who formed it to be inhabited:
So something must have happened the Earth that God created that needed to now be restored.
That is why Genesis 1:3 and on thru the chapter tells of the restoration of the Earth NOT the creation of the Earth - (that happened in verse 1)
If you will study just a little... it is very easy to understand.
Why did you stop at verse 2 before citing Isaiah?
God created all things from nothing.
Verse 2 starts the history of the process.
You are getting your beliefs from classic tradition NOT from the Bible text.
I believe what has been written.
What day was water created on?


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

Hill Top
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Re: Creation of the universe beyond our solar system is not what Genesis 1 is covering.

Post by Hill Top »

bibleman wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:57 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:38 pm
bibleman wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:56 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:43 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:41 am
Hill Top wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:49 pm
Verse one says He did it, and the next verses show how He did it.
Verse 1 tells us he created something! Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Verse 2 we find the Earth that God had created "without form" Heb. (tōhû) ! Genesis 1:2 The earth was without form (tōhû), and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep....
Isaiah tells us God did NOT create the Earth in vain! (tōhû) Isaiah 45:18 For thus says the LORD, Who created the heavens, Who is God, Who formed the earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did not create it in vain, Who formed it to be inhabited:
So something must have happened the Earth that God created that needed to now be restored.
That is why Genesis 1:3 and on thru the chapter tells of the restoration of the Earth NOT the creation of the Earth - (that happened in verse 1)
If you will study just a little... it is very easy to understand.
Why did you stop at verse 2 before citing Isaiah?
God created all things from nothing.
Verse 2 starts the history of the process.
You are getting your beliefs from classic tradition NOT from the Bible text.
I believe what has been written.
What day was water created on?
Water, like darkness, always was.



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Re: Creation of the universe beyond our solar system is not what Genesis 1 is covering.

Post by macca »

:shocked!: Fairdinkum



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Re: Creation of the universe beyond our solar system is not what Genesis 1 is covering.

Post by Grandfather »

Ironman wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:10 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:55 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:32 pm
God did not create the Heavens and Earth in 6 days - He created them BEFORE the 6 days, see verse 1.
For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them. Exo 20:11
Check this out grandfather. From F.J Dake God's plan for man book.

God created a perfect Earth, then destroyed it and everything therein, because of sin.\ and rebellion. Moses’ teaching on the overthrow of the Pre-Adamite world.

In Gen 1:2 we have the fact that the Earth was in existence before the Spirit of God began to move, (brood) upon the face of the waters which covered the Earth. The conjunction “and” is used to connect about 200 separate acts of God in Gen. 1 and 2. These acts are all equally independent and important. Verse 2 is as independent of verse 1 as are all other separate acts of God in these two chapters. In verse 1 we have the original creation of the heavens and the Earth, and in verse 2, we have the original perfect Earth made chaos and flooded with water which destroyed all lifeon the Earth.

The word “was” in verse 2 is from the Hebrew bayah, which is a verb to become, not the verb to be. It is translated became 67 times (Gen. 2:7; 19:26; 20:12; 24:67; Ex. 4:3-4; Num. 12:10; ect.); becamest (1 Chron. 17:22; Ezek. 16:8) ; came and came to pass 505 times (Gen. 4:3; 6:1, 4; 11:2, 5; etc.) become 66 times (Gen. 3:22; 18:18; 48:19; etc.) come (and come to pass 131 times (Gen. 4:14; 6:13; 18-20; 27:40 etc.); and many times be in the sense of become (Gen. 1:3, 6, 9, 14: 3:5; etc.).
The phrase without form is from the Hebrew tohu, which means waste, desolation, or confusion. It is translated wast (Deut. 32:10); without form (Gen.1:2, Jer.4:23); vain (Isa. 45:18; 1 Sam. 12:21); confusion Isa. 24:10; 34:11; 41:29); empty (Job 26:7); vanity (Isa. 40:17, 23; 44:9; 59:4); nothing (Job. 6:18; Isa. 40:17); and wilderness (Job 12:24; Ps. 107:40).

It can be seen from these passages what the word really means and what the condition of the Earth was in Gen. 1:2. God did not originally create the Earth in such a waste and ruined state. It is definitely stated in Isa. 45:18 that God did not create the Earth tohu (vain, or desolate), yet in Gen 1:2 the Earth was tohu. If the Earth was not originally created desolate, then it must have been created, inhabited, and later became desolate. Even the English verb “was” proves that it had to become desolate before it could be desolate.
The Hebrew word for void is bohu, which means empty, ruin or void. It is translated void (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23) and emptiness (Isa. 34:11). The Hebrew phrase tohu va bohu (wast and ruin, or desolate and empty) describes the chaotic conditions of the Earth since “the beginning” and before the six days of the reconstruction of Gen. 1:3-2:25. God did not create the Earth a ruin or a wast. It became so because of sin.

We can read Gen. 1:1-2 literally thus:
“In the beginning [by periods, ages] God created the heavens and the Earth. And the Earth became waste and ruin [desolate and empty]; and darkness was upon the face of the waters.” In these verses we have the whole span of the creative ages taking in all the original creation of the heavens and the Earth and all things therein to the six days of restoration of the Earth to a habitable state. The original creations include the sun, moon, and stars.

In these two verses alone we have the facts that in the dateless past God created the heavens, including the sun, moon, and stars, and then the Earth; that the heavens, were created before the Earth; the waters; and that the darkness were all created before the spirit began to brood over the waters; and that these things were already in existence before the first of the six days, proving that they were not created in any one of those days.

How long the Earth was a waste and a ruin or desolate and empty since its original habitation is not known. How long it was in existence and inhabited before it became desolate and empty is not known, but why and when it was cursed and became desolate and empty is known and clearly revealed in Scripture.
In Scripture all cases of obscuring the sun and bringing consequent darkness, and all cases of floods are a result of Judgment and never of an acts of creation, unless it be Gen. 1:2; and we have no authority on which to believe that this is an exception. Why could not Gen. 1:2 be a result of a curse, as is clear of all other floods and darkness on the Earth, as revealed in Gen. 6-8; Ex. 10:21-23; Isa. 5:30; 13:10; Jer. 4:23-26; Amos 5:18-20; Zeph. 1:15; Joel 2:30-3: 16; Matt. 8:12; 9:2; 16:10.

The fact that Moses by inspiration said that God told Adam, to multiply and replenish the Earth proves that there was a social system on the Earth before Adam, for he could not replenish something that had been plenished before. Some argue that the Hebrew word for replenish means fill and not refill, but this proves nothing. An examination of all the places where the word replenish is used disproves this. Suppose we make the word replenish mean plenish in Gen. 9:1; Isa. 2:6; 23:2; Jer. 31:25; Ezek. 26:2; 27:25, and note the results. Where the Hebrew word mala is translated fill, it does not mean that the thing referred to had never been filled before. For example, when Joseph commanded his bretheren to “fill their sacks,” does this mean that those sack had never been filled before? They had no doubt been filled many times. See Gen. 42:25; 44:1; 1 Kings 18:33; Hag. 2:7 etc. To say, “Fill that glass with water” does not prove that ithad never been filled before, but to say, “Refill that glass with water” proves that it had been filled before. When God said to Noah, “be fruitfull and multiply, and replenish the earth” Gen. 9:1, it is clear that the Earth had been plenished before, so why not believe that God meant the same thing when He said it to Adam? The same Hebrew statement is found in both passages (Gen. 1;28; 9:1),and it is translated exactly the same in English, so would it be wrong to believe that it means the same thing? If the Earth had been plenished before Adam, then it was overthrown by judgment before the six days, as is shown in Gen.1;2.
No offense to Dake, but he uses circular logic to defend his position. To him Exodus 20 cannot mean what a plain reading of the text reveals, because it would deny HIS understanding of Gen 1. So, instead of understanding Gen 1 in a plain reading he twists Exo 20.

Now, I am not a young earther, I am simply pointing out that scripture is not clear on this issue. Oh, it may be clear to you, or me, but the idea of young vs old earth has been battling thoughout history. If it was clear it would be settled, but it is not.



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Re: Creation of the universe beyond our solar system is not what Genesis 1 is covering.

Post by bibleman »

Hill Top wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:31 am
Water, like darkness, always was.
You mean it was NEVER created?

Or do you mean someone other than God created it?


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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