Dake Bible Discussion BoardObey or Disobey government

General Discussion Forum devoted to the study of God's Word in Honor of Finis J. Dake.
Post Reply
User avatar
bibleman
Administrator
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 1998 5:23 pm
Location: South Carolina
Contact:

Obey or Disobey government

Post by bibleman »

In the Scripture we are told of the ministry of the 5 fold ministers to perfect the saints:

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

At the same time Paul and Silas commended those who checked them out on the Word of God.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Now concerning government officials we are told to be subject unto them....

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6 For this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.


That being said... If we are commended to "check out" the apostles shouldn't we ALSO check out the government, that is
searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so BEFORE we submit to them.

And in fact where NO reasonable confirmation of Scripture is found we should then DISOBEY government!

So then my thinking is we should START out with a mindset to OBEY government...
Then check them out with the WORD of God...
Based on their agreement or disagreement with the Word of God...
We should then either faithfully submit OR steadfastly resist!

Agree? Disagree? What do you think?


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

Grandfather
Pray for Them which Despitefully Persecute You
Posts: 484
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:51 pm

Re: Obey or Disobey government

Post by Grandfather »

I may still be a little groggy this morning, I haven't had my third cup of coffee yet, but I am having a difficult time trying to follow your question. I assume that you are asking about the intersection of the role of government and the practice of one's faith. If. that is the question the basic answer might be the same for everyone, but the line that divides the two varies from person to person and from practices of faith.

1 Peter 2:17 says we are to fear God and honor the King. Another version says honor God and honor the King. Another version says to Honor God and respect the King.

I believe it is possible to honor, respect, serve, etc, the king (ie governmental authority) and to fear and honor God at the same time. When the two are in conflict, serving God comes first. There are examples of this throughout scripture. The prophet Daniel is one and his steadfast devotion to God made a positive impact on both the king and the nation. Joseph would be another example. Even David, before he was king served Saul and would not raise his hand against him because it was not a godly thing to do.

In the New Testament, the Apostles were commanded not to teach in Jesus' name, but they refuse to stop and accepted the punishment for their actions. (peaceful civil disobedience?)

So, submit where one can without sin or disobedience, resist where you must because submission would lead to disobedience and sin, then accept the results of resistance knowing you are pleasing God.



Bible Reader
Zechariah
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:05 pm

Re: Obey or Disobey government

Post by Bible Reader »

Grandfather wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:23 am
In the New Testament, the Apostles were commanded not to teach in Jesus' name, but they refuse to stop and accepted the punishment for their actions. (peaceful civil disobedience?)

So, submit where one can without sin or disobedience, resist where you must because submission would lead to disobedience and sin, then accept the results of resistance knowing you are pleasing God.
Great answer! However most people refuse to accept the results or think God will protect them from results of civil disobedience



Hill Top
Repent and Be Baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ Because of the Remission of Sins
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: Obey or Disobey government

Post by Hill Top »

bibleman wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:52 am
In the Scripture we are told of the ministry of the 5 fold ministers to perfect the saints:

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

At the same time Paul and Silas commended those who checked them out on the Word of God.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Now concerning government officials we are told to be subject unto them....

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6 For this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.


That being said... If we are commended to "check out" the apostles shouldn't we ALSO check out the government, that is
searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so BEFORE we submit to them.

And in fact where NO reasonable confirmation of Scripture is found we should then DISOBEY government!

So then my thinking is we should START out with a mindset to OBEY government...
Then check them out with the WORD of God...
Based on their agreement or disagreement with the Word of God...
We should then either faithfully submit OR steadfastly resist!

Agree? Disagree? What do you think?
Agree.



User avatar
luchnia
Shall Not He that Spared Not His Own Son Freely Give Us All Things?
Posts: 669
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:01 am

Re: Obey or Disobey government

Post by luchnia »

bibleman wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:52 am
In the Scripture we are told of the ministry of the 5 fold ministers to perfect the saints:

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

At the same time Paul and Silas commended those who checked them out on the Word of God.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Now concerning government officials we are told to be subject unto them....

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6 For this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.


That being said... If we are commended to "check out" the apostles shouldn't we ALSO check out the government, that is
searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so BEFORE we submit to them.

And in fact where NO reasonable confirmation of Scripture is found we should then DISOBEY government!

So then my thinking is we should START out with a mindset to OBEY government...
Then check them out with the WORD of God...
Based on their agreement or disagreement with the Word of God...
We should then either faithfully submit OR steadfastly resist!

Agree? Disagree? What do you think?
Do you think that even though people hold government offices they are necessarily ordained by God? Just like marriage, I do not believe that God ordained two men getting married even though it is legal process. Are there not many examples throughout the bible where Godly people fought against higher powers? I am thinking this is what you mean anyway and if so, I am in agreement.


Word up!

User avatar
branham1965
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 2428
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:18 am

Re: Obey or Disobey government

Post by branham1965 »

I agree Pastor Bible.
As Rev.Bible so eloquently said their is NO EXCUSE for the open sedition that has gone on here in the last year.
This has to stop.
bibleman wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:52 am
In the Scripture we are told of the ministry of the 5 fold ministers to perfect the saints:

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

At the same time Paul and Silas commended those who checked them out on the Word of God.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Now concerning government officials we are told to be subject unto them....

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6 For this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.


That being said... If we are commended to "check out" the apostles shouldn't we ALSO check out the government, that is
searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so BEFORE we submit to them.

And in fact where NO reasonable confirmation of Scripture is found we should then DISOBEY government!

So then my thinking is we should START out with a mindset to OBEY government...
Then check them out with the WORD of God...
Based on their agreement or disagreement with the Word of God...
We should then either faithfully submit OR steadfastly resist!

Agree? Disagree? What do you think?



Hill Top
Repent and Be Baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ Because of the Remission of Sins
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: Obey or Disobey government

Post by Hill Top »

branham1965 wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:04 am
I agree Pastor Bible.
As Rev.Bible so eloquently said their is NO EXCUSE for the open sedition that has gone on here in the last year.
This has to stop.
bibleman wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:52 am
In the Scripture we are told of the ministry of the 5 fold ministers to perfect the saints:

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

At the same time Paul and Silas commended those who checked them out on the Word of God.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Now concerning government officials we are told to be subject unto them....

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6 For this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.


That being said... If we are commended to "check out" the apostles shouldn't we ALSO check out the government, that is
searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so BEFORE we submit to them.

And in fact where NO reasonable confirmation of Scripture is found we should then DISOBEY government!

So then my thinking is we should START out with a mindset to OBEY government...
Then check them out with the WORD of God...
Based on their agreement or disagreement with the Word of God...
We should then either faithfully submit OR steadfastly resist!

Agree? Disagree? What do you think?
Branham...Would you kindly point out where he said that?
Thanks.



Grandfather
Pray for Them which Despitefully Persecute You
Posts: 484
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:51 pm

Re: Obey or Disobey government

Post by Grandfather »

Hill Top wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:21 pm
Branham...Would you kindly point out where he said that?
Thanks.
Maybe I missed something. I don't see Branham addressing anything of yours? Where is he saying you said anything?



Post Reply