Dake Bible Discussion BoardWhere Did Paul Mention a Trinity?

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Re: Where Did Paul Mention a Trinity?

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

branham1965 wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:50 pm
I was talking about Roger.But thanks for sharing your background.Are you Native American?That is cool. :angel: :angel:
Why bring me into it? :lol!:


"There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God."
(Romans 3:10-11 NKJV)
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Re: Where Did Paul Mention a Trinity?

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Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:04 pm
Does that include everyone in the Lake of Fire, too?
Hill Top wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:11 pm
Why would it?
They have not been "subject unto Him", or to His Son, so won't be "in" either One ever.
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:06 pm
Don't you believe that at that time that Jesus will have made all things subject to Himself? Even Hell and those within will be subject unto Him?
Hill Top wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:20 pm
Subjection to God is voluntary, or not really subjection.
Those destined for the lake of fire have made the choice to rebel against God.
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:24 pm
That's an interesting perspective.
Why must subjection be voluntary or not really be subjection?
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:27 pm
Subjection is born of love, as seen in marriage.
If it were due to coercion or forced, there would always be some animosity, even if there were rewards.
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:46 pm
Clearly, you do not understand either the word "subjection" or the word "all."
Do you not believe that Jesus will be able to subjugate all animosity?
Hill Top wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:59 pm
I understand those words in this thread.
Sure, Jesus is able.
But do you really think He will force folks to obey and worship Him without some hard feelings by those forced to do His will against their own will?
Were that the case, Hitler will be saved...right?
You seem to be going down a road of no punishment for the wicked.
Do you think anyone will be tossed into the lake of fire?
Subjection does not require that those being subjected be willing and have no animosity towards the one that they are subjected to. Any understanding of subjection that requires such things is an erroneous understanding of the word.

Yes, I believe that many will worship Him even, even against their own will and with some hard feelings. To me, it seems a fitting part of their punishment.

I don't know about the state of Hitler's soul. I'd imagine that he is presently burning in Hell, though.

Am I really going down the road of no punishment for the wicked?

I think almost everyone will be tossed into the Lake of Fire, including most of Jesus' friends.


"There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God."
(Romans 3:10-11 NKJV)
Are You a Good Person? Save Yourself Some Pain
Hell's Best Kept Secret True & False Conversion
School of Biblical Evangelism Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God

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Re: Where Did Paul Mention a Trinity?

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Hill Top wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:31 pm
I'ld be interested in seeing the limitations you have in mind.
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:46 pm
Can God lie?
Hill Top wrote: No, but I don't see that as a limitation, but a quality.
Neither is it a limitation that He can't make something so heavy He cannot pick it up.
To me, this feels like playing word games...

Why can't God lie if He really wanted to?


"There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God."
(Romans 3:10-11 NKJV)
Are You a Good Person? Save Yourself Some Pain
Hell's Best Kept Secret True & False Conversion
School of Biblical Evangelism Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God

Hill Top
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Re: Where Did Paul Mention a Trinity?

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:59 am
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:04 pm
Does that include everyone in the Lake of Fire, too?
Hill Top wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:11 pm
Why would it?
They have not been "subject unto Him", or to His Son, so won't be "in" either One ever.
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:06 pm
Don't you believe that at that time that Jesus will have made all things subject to Himself? Even Hell and those within will be subject unto Him?
Hill Top wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:20 pm
Subjection to God is voluntary, or not really subjection.
Those destined for the lake of fire have made the choice to rebel against God.
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:24 pm
That's an interesting perspective.
Why must subjection be voluntary or not really be subjection?
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:27 pm
Subjection is born of love, as seen in marriage.
If it were due to coercion or forced, there would always be some animosity, even if there were rewards.
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:46 pm
Clearly, you do not understand either the word "subjection" or the word "all."
Do you not believe that Jesus will be able to subjugate all animosity?
Hill Top wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:59 pm
I understand those words in this thread.
Sure, Jesus is able.
But do you really think He will force folks to obey and worship Him without some hard feelings by those forced to do His will against their own will?
Were that the case, Hitler will be saved...right?
You seem to be going down a road of no punishment for the wicked.
Do you think anyone will be tossed into the lake of fire?
Subjection does not require that those being subjected be willing and have no animosity towards the one that they are subjected to. Any understanding of subjection that requires such things is an erroneous understanding of the word.
You are equating subjection to slavery.
Those subject to Christ and His Father do so willingly with their whole heart, mind, and strength.
You wrote "being subjected" above, and if it is forced upon someone they will always be in rebellion to it.
Yes, I believe that many will worship Him even, even against their own will and with some hard feelings. To me, it seems a fitting part of their punishment.
We differ on that point.
I don't know about the state of Hitler's soul. I'd imagine that he is presently burning in Hell, though.
If, as you say, we are "being subjected" unto Him, instead of offering ourselves freely to Him, won't all the rebellious be forced to submit to Him?
Hitler is the proof that nobody will be forced to submit, and only those who do so of their own free will will be counted worthy of eternal life.
Am I really going down the road of no punishment for the wicked?
It seemed that way when you opined that some would "be subjected" to Him, apparently against their own will.
I think almost everyone will be tossed into the Lake of Fire, including most of Jesus' friends.
I agree that those who won't love Him above all else will be tossed in the fire.



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Re: Where Did Paul Mention a Trinity?

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:04 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:31 pm
I'ld be interested in seeing the limitations you have in mind.
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:46 pm
Can God lie?
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:06 pm
No, but I don't see that as a limitation, but a quality.
Neither is it a limitation that He can't make something so heavy He cannot pick it up.
To me, this feels like playing word games...
Why can't God lie if He really wanted to?
The key word there is "if".
IF He wanted to lie, He wouldn't be God.



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Re: Where Did Paul Mention a Trinity?

Post by Ironman »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:46 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:31 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:27 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:12 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:39 pm
I serve a God without any limitations.
Voluntary or otherwise.
You seem to have forgotten that Jesus was the Word made flesh.
Not the Father made flesh.
Sounds like an idolatrous concept of God, to me.

(And, no, I haven't forgotten that the Word was made flesh, but I don't think that that somehow caused Him to cease being the Word.)
Hill Top wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:27 pm
How is that idolatrous?
I'm not putting anything "on top of" or "above" God.
And I don't think that Jesus was no longer the Word, just that He lowered Himself to taste death for all men. (Heb 2:9)
To me, it seems idolatrous in that it is a conception of God that does not seem to be in alignment with the Scriptures. In other words, to me, it seems like you have replaced the God of the Bible with one of your own understanding. The God of the Bible has revealed that He does have limitations.
I'ld be interested in seeing the limitations you have in mind.
Can God lie?
No, God cannot lie.

Hebrews 6:18, That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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branham1965
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Re: Where Did Paul Mention a Trinity?

Post by branham1965 »

Dear God,
If i thought everyone including Jesus' friends are going to the lake of fire i would quit religion and find a good psychiatrist.


Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:59 am
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:04 pm
Does that include everyone in the Lake of Fire, too?
Hill Top wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:11 pm
Why would it?
They have not been "subject unto Him", or to His Son, so won't be "in" either One ever.
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:06 pm
Don't you believe that at that time that Jesus will have made all things subject to Himself? Even Hell and those within will be subject unto Him?
Hill Top wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:20 pm
Subjection to God is voluntary, or not really subjection.
Those destined for the lake of fire have made the choice to rebel against God.
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:24 pm
That's an interesting perspective.
Why must subjection be voluntary or not really be subjection?
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:27 pm
Subjection is born of love, as seen in marriage.
If it were due to coercion or forced, there would always be some animosity, even if there were rewards.
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:46 pm
Clearly, you do not understand either the word "subjection" or the word "all."
Do you not believe that Jesus will be able to subjugate all animosity?
Hill Top wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:59 pm
I understand those words in this thread.
Sure, Jesus is able.
But do you really think He will force folks to obey and worship Him without some hard feelings by those forced to do His will against their own will?
Were that the case, Hitler will be saved...right?
You seem to be going down a road of no punishment for the wicked.
Do you think anyone will be tossed into the lake of fire?
Subjection does not require that those being subjected be willing and have no animosity towards the one that they are subjected to. Any understanding of subjection that requires such things is an erroneous understanding of the word.

Yes, I believe that many will worship Him even, even against their own will and with some hard feelings. To me, it seems a fitting part of their punishment.

I don't know about the state of Hitler's soul. I'd imagine that he is presently burning in Hell, though.

Am I really going down the road of no punishment for the wicked?

I think almost everyone will be tossed into the Lake of Fire, including most of Jesus' friends.
Last edited by branham1965 on Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Where Did Paul Mention a Trinity?

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:59 am
Subjection does not require that those being subjected be willing and have no animosity towards the one that they are subjected to. Any understanding of subjection that requires such things is an erroneous understanding of the word.
Hill Top wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:03 pm
You are equating subjection to slavery.
Those subject to Christ and His Father do so willingly with their whole heart, mind, and strength.
You wrote "being subjected" above, and if it is forced upon someone they will always be in rebellion to it.
In some (or most?) cases, subjection is very much like slavery.
If those in the Lake of Fire become willing subjects in their whole heart, mind, soul, and strength; does that necessitate their salvation in your view?

To me, it seems that you believe that unless one is totally reconciled to God, they aren't made subject unto Him. However, ALL will be made subject to Him. So, you either have to believe that God would continue eternally tormenting those in complete willing subject to Him or you have to allow for God to permit them to continue to be His unwilling subjects, but subjected to Him, none-the-less... (Unless, of course, you believe that once they become His willing subjects, they might be released from Hell, should He decide to show them mercy?)


"There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God."
(Romans 3:10-11 NKJV)
Are You a Good Person? Save Yourself Some Pain
Hell's Best Kept Secret True & False Conversion
School of Biblical Evangelism Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God

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Re: Where Did Paul Mention a Trinity?

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:59 am
I don't know about the state of Hitler's soul. I'd imagine that he is presently burning in Hell, though.
Hill Top wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:03 pm
If, as you say, we are "being subjected" unto Him, instead of offering ourselves freely to Him, won't all the rebellious be forced to submit to Him?
Hitler is the proof that nobody will be forced to submit, and only those who do so of their own free will will be counted worthy of eternal life.
Why do you think that Hitler is proof that nobody will be forced to submit? The fact that Paul taught us that all will submit to Him seems to indicate Hitler's future submission (whether of his own free will or forced).


"There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God."
(Romans 3:10-11 NKJV)
Are You a Good Person? Save Yourself Some Pain
Hell's Best Kept Secret True & False Conversion
School of Biblical Evangelism Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: Where Did Paul Mention a Trinity?

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:59 am
I think almost everyone will be tossed into the Lake of Fire, including most of Jesus' friends.
Hill Top wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:03 pm
I agree that those who won't love Him above all else will be tossed in the fire.
I think even most of those that love Him "above all else" will be found to have fallen short and will be tossed into the Lake.


"There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God."
(Romans 3:10-11 NKJV)
Are You a Good Person? Save Yourself Some Pain
Hell's Best Kept Secret True & False Conversion
School of Biblical Evangelism Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God

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