Dake Bible Discussion BoardWords mean something.

General Discussion Forum devoted to the study of God's Word in Honor of Finis J. Dake.
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Grandfather
He Which Soweth Bountifully Shall Reap Also Bountifully
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Re: Words mean something.

Post by Grandfather »

Hill Top wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:25 pm
I'll accept the words of someone with the gift of the Holy Ghost any time.
Why would I accept as true anything from liars?
How can you accept the words of the unrighteous as true?
I don't accept something as true "on my own" if a man of God delivers it to me.
Again I need some clarification,
1 How do you determine if someone has the gift of the Holy Ghost?
2. Are facts or truth not factual or truthful depending on person delivering that information?
3. How do you square your position with that of the Berean’s in Acts 17, who did not accept Pauls declaration as true simply because Paul said it, but that they went to search the scriptures and prove it was true. (Ie First Hand confirmation)



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luchnia
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Re: Words mean something.

Post by luchnia »

Hill Top wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:16 pm
God is the source of what I believe.
My criteria is His word.
Fascinating concept of which you do not adhere (at least in this discussion forum that is).


Word up!

Grandfather
He Which Soweth Bountifully Shall Reap Also Bountifully
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Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:51 pm

Re: Words mean something.

Post by Grandfather »

Hill Top wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:33 pm
It would indeed matter if math had any thing to do with Godliness.
But it doesn't.
There are a number of people that would disagree with you. Science (or which math is a part) has done a lot to point people to the divine. There are a number of scientist that have come to the Lord because they followed the science. Just because math does not get them “saved” it can be one of the many tools that lead them to that decision. And many have expressed how the understanding of the science provokes them to holiness.

Hill Top wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:25 pm
If gravity or math could influence someone's salvation, it would matter.
But they don't.
As mentioned above, science (including math and logic) do influence someone’s salvation. Have you never heard of the Kalam Cosmological Argument? Or the Christian version of the “Big Bang”? Or the apologetic proposition of divine design? All use science to prove there is a divine being.

So, my friend, they do matter. Perhaps not to you, but unless you are the standard by which “it matters” is measured then your statement of “if...., it would matter. But the statement they don’t is absolutely inaccurate. (Ie FALSE... possibly a LIE)



Hill Top
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Re: Words mean something.

Post by Hill Top »

Grandfather wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:49 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:25 pm
I'll accept the words of someone with the gift of the Holy Ghost any time.
Why would I accept as true anything from liars?
How can you accept the words of the unrighteous as true?
I don't accept something as true "on my own" if a man of God delivers it to me.
Again I need some clarification,
1 How do you determine if someone has the gift of the Holy Ghost?
I ask then if they commit sin.
God won't dwell in an unclean temple.
2. Are facts or truth not factual or truthful depending on person delivering that information?
Sometimes.
3. How do you square your position with that of the Berean’s in Acts 17, who did not accept Pauls declaration as true simply because Paul said it, but that they went to search the scriptures and prove it was true. (Ie First Hand confirmation)
My position is the same.
Proof from scripture is the most crucial thing, so things counter to scripture are tossed aside.



Hill Top
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Re: Words mean something.

Post by Hill Top »

luchnia wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:57 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:16 pm
God is the source of what I believe.
My criteria is His word.
Fascinating concept of which you do not adhere (at least in this discussion forum that is).
You are entitled to an opinion.



Hill Top
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
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Re: Words mean something.

Post by Hill Top »

Grandfather wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:23 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:33 pm
It would indeed matter if math had any thing to do with Godliness.
But it doesn't.
There are a number of people that would disagree with you. Science (or which math is a part) has done a lot to point people to the divine. There are a number of scientist that have come to the Lord because they followed the science. Just because math does not get them “saved” it can be one of the many tools that lead them to that decision. And many have expressed how the understanding of the science provokes them to holiness.
Big storms and earthquakes can do the same, but are they always necessary to cause men to turn from sin and unto God?

Hill Top wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:25 pm
If gravity or math could influence someone's salvation, it would matter.
But they don't.
As mentioned above, science (including math and logic) do influence someone’s salvation. Have you never heard of the Kalam Cosmological Argument? Or the Christian version of the “Big Bang”? Or the apologetic proposition of divine design? All use science to prove there is a divine being. [/quote]
Proofs derived from non-scriptural sources can't sway me.
Everything the scientist uses as a proof of God is already declared in scripture.
So, my friend, they do matter. Perhaps not to you, but unless you are the standard by which “it matters” is measured then your statement of “if...., it would matter. But the statement they don’t is absolutely inaccurate. (Ie FALSE... possibly a LIE)
You should ask the men you cite if they still commit sin.
That is the proof of conversion from darkness to the light.



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luchnia
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Re: Words mean something.

Post by luchnia »

Hill Top wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:03 pm
You should ask the men you cite if they still commit sin.
That is the proof of conversion from darkness to the light.
You have a right to your opinion. So with your statement because a person doesn't sin proves they are converted? Converted to what light? Another interesting, but flawed construct you put forth.

Your statement would mean that atheist that don't sin (some live more righteous than saints do) are converted to light and yet still they don't believe in God. There are many right living people that don't even believe there is a God or a devil and some that simply don't know, but live right.

Some engineering mindsets I have met over the years have a beautiful moral compass and shine bright lights, but cannot wrap their heads around the concept of there being a God. Their minds see math and science in a fascinating, but extremely in depth way.

Based on your premise we are to believe they are converted to God? Maybe so, Jesus did make the statement that He did not come for the healthy, but the sick. Let's hope you are right, yet it would be challenging to prove such from scripture.


Word up!

Grandfather
He Which Soweth Bountifully Shall Reap Also Bountifully
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Re: Words mean something.

Post by Grandfather »

Hill Top wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:03 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:23 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:33 pm
It would indeed matter if math had any thing to do with Godliness.
But it doesn't.
There are a number of people that would disagree with you. Science (or which math is a part) has done a lot to point people to the divine. There are a number of scientist that have come to the Lord because they followed the science. Just because math does not get them “saved” it can be one of the many tools that lead them to that decision. And many have expressed how the understanding of the science provokes them to holiness.
Big storms and earthquakes can do the same, but are they always necessary to cause men to turn from sin and unto God?
If you believe the impact of big storms andd earthquakes direct people to Christ in the same manner that the study of the sciences do you are sadly mistaken. The fear generated by the potential, or experienced, power of death and destruction are not the same as the discovery of the intricate design, function and purpose of the world.

Ponder for a moment; Why does math always work when done correctly? What principles govern it. Where is that revealed in scripture? Or are they bound in the essence of the Creator that laid the foundation of the earth and measured the span of the heavens? Indeed mathematics point to the Creator, but the Bible does not tell you how to do math.



Grandfather
He Which Soweth Bountifully Shall Reap Also Bountifully
Posts: 1466
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:51 pm

Re: Words mean something.

Post by Grandfather »

Hill Top wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:03 pm
You should ask the men you cite if they still commit sin.
That is the proof of conversion from darkness to the light.
Or perhaps we could ask Balaam donkey, or the crowing rooster? Or Caiaphas the high priest who the Apostle John recorded as prophesying?



Grandfather
He Which Soweth Bountifully Shall Reap Also Bountifully
Posts: 1466
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:51 pm

Re: Words mean something.

Post by Grandfather »

Hill Top wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:03 pm
Proofs derived from non-scriptural sources can't sway me.
Everything the scientist uses as a proof of God is already declared in scripture.
Really - prove the comsological argument from scripture? prove the ontological argument from scripture? prove the moral argument for God from scripture?

I'll wait.... but I won't hold my breath, because I do not think you can or will attempt to do it!



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